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 NRA
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| Author | Topic: NRA |
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Snapper55 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 68) |
posted July 01, 2000 09:32 PM
  
what do you think about gun control...I think if guns only killed those who owned them and not innocent people, then theyd be fine ------------------ IP: Logged |
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goleafs Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 538) |
posted July 01, 2000 09:35 PM
guns should be banned period. if people want to hunt its time to be a man and use your hands or a knife. IP: Logged |
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Jay Z Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 891) |
posted July 01, 2000 10:09 PM
watch The Patriot goleafs...tell me what you think after the movie ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Ubermass Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 73) |
posted July 01, 2000 10:09 PM
you can take my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand take my wife ------------------ IP: Logged |
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goleafs Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 538) |
posted July 01, 2000 10:12 PM
i saw it. great movie. ill have to admit it was a real tearjerker. the guns in that movie sucked. i love how they line up with that bolt action bullshit knowing they would die any second. thats why i say be a man and use your hands. as far as the patriot goes...if it weren't for us french guys you americans would be singin a different tuneHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA IP: Logged |
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cm3504jm Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 87) |
posted July 01, 2000 11:38 PM
I did not join the NRA until last year. What prompted my joining was that I am tired of all the thousands of laws passed by the government regarding gun control. I have been a taxpaying, law abiding citizen for over 25 years (I am 40). What I see the government doing is taking away our freedom bit by bit and making excuses for the miscreants of society by blaming the gun. Blame the criminals for their actions, not the gun. Did the assault weapons ban in California lower crime? HELL no. Does Washington D.C., with the toughest gun control in the USA, have a lower crime rate? HELL no. I for one, am thankful that I carry a firearm at all times, as it saved my family and myself from a criminal on more than one occasion. The NRA taught me safety, respect, and marksmanship for firearms when I was young. Shit, I guess I am a criminal now.
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Snapper55 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 68) |
posted July 02, 2000 01:24 AM
cm3504jm, you gotta look at other countries where weapons are banned and see how many fewer deaths there are...I am a far left liberal and I totally understand being paranoid about the government and their power to supress us, but times change, and the constitution has to be flexible to meet the times, we do not need guns to hunt for survival, we do not need guns to support local militias, and guns kill members of the families they are owned by far more often then they kill potential criminals...guns, like I said, are fine as long as they only affect those who use them...look at the countries we teach our children are evil, for example, Iraq, Vietnam, Japan, Russia, (from the past) or the Islamic people we consider savages...look at the statisitics of children shooting eachother in schools, see if it adds up, as for the new NRA restaurant...are they giving free meals to the mothers and father of children who were killed by gunshots of rifles intened for family protection and hunting...or are these lives that were cost the price we pay for the privelage to have a gun? Think of this point as well...didnt the origional constitution of the united states of america outlaw blacks and women from voting...the white male population sure did not want the constitution to change due to fear that they would lose power, which of course was the case...so there is a perfect example of a loss of power that is really a gain...the white male population had to share their voting rights...now you may someday have to give up guns so innocent lives can be saved...everybody, Im sorry, but this is an issue I believe strongly in ------------------ IP: Logged |
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slabcat Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 155) |
posted July 02, 2000 01:41 AM
Ubermass, Heston fan are we. I don't think guns should be banned but definately controlled. There's a difference between having a weapon for self defense or for hunting but it's another matter to have something that can cut a person in half in two seconds. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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cm3504jm Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 87) |
posted July 02, 2000 01:47 AM
Obvoiusly I am a die hard conservative. The point I make is that in todays world, people are NOT being held responsible for their actions. Children are not being taught that if you do something wrong, you have responsibilities for your actions. Therefore, they get the impression that if the excuse is crafty enough, you can get away with it. There is a tremendous responsibilty regarding firearms and safely using them. That has always impressed me about the NRA-their safety programs which teach correct handling procedures. The unloaded gun is the one that kills acidentally. I do detest hunting. I do not like to shoot things to watch them die and then eat them. I do love to compete against myself on a target range. While we agree to disagree, I respect your opinions. IP: Logged |
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kram696969 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 322) |
posted July 02, 2000 02:29 AM
i like guns kram-mark IP: Logged |
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TxCollegeguy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 365) |
posted July 02, 2000 03:22 AM
To all those talking against rights to guns and Especially goleafs....I would expect a Canadian to speak on this....Since you have no rights now except for HUNTING guns, please do NOT EVER Reply to this kind of question again.... FOR only AMERICANS can truely deep down know how this debate is shapping, wether or not you like or agree with guns, this is A AMERICAN ISSUE I am not a memeber of the NRA but I agree with them
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TrickyTrav Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 26) |
posted July 02, 2000 03:29 AM
Gun control is a joke! Its as simple as this - you ban guns & then the lawbiding citizens turn in their guns. The criminals & thugs dont,simply cause they are just that. So what do you think is gonna happen after IP: Logged |
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Latimer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 323) |
posted July 02, 2000 08:53 AM
I love my guns. Use your head and lock them up and accidents won't happen. Take away the murderer's guns and they'll just use knives next time. Just think though if Canada ever invades we will be ready. IP: Logged |
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The Dude Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 38) |
posted July 02, 2000 10:18 AM
The second amendment was created (and was made the SECOND amendment) because our founding fathers knew from first hand experience how important it is for a population to be able to defend itself from the government. People brush this off, but history bears out time and again how dangerous a government can be for its own people. Two other pluses: If 50% of the population is armed, how many criminals will think twice before committing some crimes. It is a deterrent and the numbers from concealed carry states vs cities that have banned handguns altogether bear this out. I have read/heard several interviews with former soviet military personnel where they revealed their fear of an invasion of the United States. Basically, they believe that if we were invaded, it would be a nightmare for the invader. Think Afghanistan was a bitch for them? It would have been a walk in the park compared to an invasion of the U.S. For those of you who say they USSR is dead, remember that everything runs in cycles. It may be 10 years, it may be 100 years, but another legitimate hostile threat will arise. When in history, has one not? No matter what your politics are, always remember that this nation is great because of one thing: freedom. You should, at all times, fight to keep that freedom. IP: Logged |
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denmaur Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 318) |
posted July 02, 2000 10:55 AM
Hey Snapper - Using your logic, that outlawing guns will reduce crime, then outlawing drugs should reduce their use. Last I heard you can buy heroin easier and cheaper today than 20 years ago WHAT HAPPENED!! All those years fighting the so called drug war and it FAILED! Cocaine, pot, etc, all have laws making them illegal and they are all available in virtually every neighborhood of every social class. Do you really think the criminals are going to give up their guns because a bunch of out of touch old men in D.C. pass another law. The current laws dont work because they arent enforced. 20 years for armed robbery means what? Maybe 3 years behind bars. How many times have you read about some piece of garbage getting out early and killing or raping another victim. Liberals think the government (big brother) knows whats best for the individual and people need to be taken care of. But look at all the failures of government; public schools, public housing, welfare, social security. The list goes on and on. If the police and courts cant protect us from criminals now, tell me how will they protect us if we are unarmed? God help us then.
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Cleaner Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 436) |
posted July 02, 2000 11:30 AM
Go read the Gun Nut post - you will know how I feel! Go ask an Aussie about gun control he will explain better than anybody. In New Zealand(Sp) crime has gone thru the roof. [This message has been edited by Cleaner (edited July 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Rexie317 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 242) |
posted July 02, 2000 01:08 PM
Nice definition denmaur. I second that. The only way we'll get the guns away from the criminals is by prying them from their cold fingers. The Gov't doesn't know what the people of the country need, because they sit in their buildings believing that if they make a law everyone will be dandy with it. I say ENFORCE the law. If they did it then maybe this country wouldn't be heading down the shit hole. As for guns being banned in other countries, those rules work because they (key word coming up) ENFORCE them and don't fuck around when it comes to conviction, sentencing and execution. They take you to court (sometimes) find if your ass is guilty, if so, then pow your ass is grass. Makes me sick that some fuckin criminal is livin better than part of the population b/c of laws. Con stands for a negative, and CONvicts are having laws made for them by who?...CONgress. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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skydancer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 270) |
posted July 02, 2000 01:23 PM
Ditto to denmaur, rexie and cleaner...I am now considered a felon due the type of guns I have in my household. What a joke...any criminal can get a gun in an hour while it takes me two weeks. This is America - its supposed to be the people leading, not the government. The bleeding heart media forgets to mention to you all when they are painting a horrific picture of how many "children are killed each year due to guns" are fucking gangbangers on the street shooting their worthless heads off! And I'll tell you what...if I ever woke up in the middle of the night to a home invasion I'd much rather have my 357 by my side than the damn phone and 911. IP: Logged |
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TxCollegeguy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 365) |
posted July 02, 2000 02:09 PM
What most people don't know about owning whats considered Assualt weapons is that it isn't against the Law to have them the federal govt has a fee/tax whatever you want to call it that is about $100 which gives you the a perment to own certain if not most "Assault" guns....Just another way they can tax people.... The Gun issue in this country is just to damn depressing...that's why I'm voting this fall to get rid of the damn Liberals on Capital Hill....I think we can also thank our wonderful, govt corrupted media to...I love how every Ted Turner media outlet is always screaming Bloody Marry over gun control....Maybe his Commy Wife has influenced him a bit to much.... Gun Laws only affect the tax payers not Johny Lawbreaker who doesn't care anyway... IP: Logged |
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shmucko Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 118) |
posted July 02, 2000 04:18 PM
Countries that control guns are not free. Governments trying to control their citizens have to control their firearms first. I will not give mine up. IP: Logged |
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Cleaner Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 436) |
posted July 02, 2000 04:36 PM
These are my people - I don't know a one of them but would risk my life with all of them! Happy 4th Brothers. www.elitefitness.com/ubb/Arcives/Forum10/05-2000/000212.html IP: Logged |
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MattTheSkywalker Moderator (Total posts: 1160) |
posted July 02, 2000 07:07 PM
Gun Control: Hitting where you aim A gun has never actually killed anyone of its own accord. "Gun control legislation" simply makes it more difficult to get a gun for lawful use. If I want a gun for a crime, I'm going to get one on the street, with the serial numbers filed off, probably stolen or out of state. Gun control legislation is powerless against those guns, Matt IP: Logged |
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MONSTROSITY Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 320) |
posted July 02, 2000 07:10 PM
If you are not a felon, then you have rights. And to take away your right to bear arms is to take away your freedom. I love hunting and guns are a part of it. IP: Logged |
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stack225 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 28) |
posted July 02, 2000 07:26 PM
If everyone votes for Bush, then we can get rid of some of the liberals and their bogus gun laws. IP: Logged |
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TxCollegeguy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 365) |
posted July 02, 2000 07:33 PM
That is why I am voting for my Gov. he is a politician like all the rest, yet reguardless on how side twisted he does things he has done what he has set out to do as Gov. and For that I am thankful and will give him my vote and support this fall....As far as his stance on gun control I Love it...He believes that some of the existing laws need to be repealed, and start enforcing others.... Anyone else here think it's Ironic how in the last few years the Media has been exploading on the number of school shootings in America??? Anyone ever dare to guess why they don't cover school shootings in Ghetto schools or in towns where the minority population is the majority....Just something to ponder, considering school shootings are considerably down compared to 10 years ago... IP: Logged |
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Kahn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 556) |
posted July 03, 2000 12:18 AM
I never had an opinion until they started telling me the way it was going to be. Now I want one of each. Most of the people problem is basic respect. People need to teach more respect to the kids and have more respect themselves. Until that happens, and it won't, get rid of them(after I stockpile mine). IP: Logged |
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Rexie317 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 242) |
posted July 03, 2000 12:49 AM
Lousy Gov't taxes us to bear a firearm, a constitutional right. Isn't taxation the reason we broke off from England in the first place? My defintion of Gov't- group of people who say one thing and do the other...see also hypocrit. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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mrbill Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 70) |
posted July 03, 2000 06:11 AM
snapper...bro, you really need to examine your concepts of world history a little more accurately. You argue that contries such as Iraq, Russia (I think you actually are referring to the former Soviet Union), Vietnam etc. are safer for it's citizens than the U.S. due to these countries suppressing the right to own firearms. Are you serious?? Yes there are no school shootings because these extremely repressive systems not only suppress the right to own firearms but almost all forms of personal liberties. A citizen does not need to worry about school shootings, they need to worry about Government shootings. If you cannot see the harsh realities of those govermental systems you are living in a complete leftist, delusional world. You don't need to take my word on this, I have friends from Iran, and Iraq...all you need to do is hop on a plane and go to live there and you will get the "eye-opening" experience of your life. I understand that there are differing opinions concerning gun-control and I can appreciate sensible arguments from both points of view, but to make ridiculous statements that are completely grounded in fallacy is silly at best and idiotic at it's worst. Nothing personal, just making a point...peace. IP: Logged |
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Recoome Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 63) |
posted July 03, 2000 06:18 AM
I really don't give a shit as long as I still get to hunt. Nothing fancy, no combat machine gun, just something to help me enjoy earth's oldest sport. IP: Logged |
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StevieD Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 165) |
posted July 03, 2000 06:52 AM
I'm from the UK but have spent a lot of time in the US. I've met so many Americans who can't believe that we don't own guns in the UK, nor can they believe that police don't carry guns. Fact is - police don't need them because very few crims carry them. It's a circular process. There was one school shooting in this country and they banned all hand guns outright. But in the US they seem to be a weekly event. Simple fact is - Nobody (unless you are a farmer) needs to have a gun. I just didn't feel safe in the US knowing that some maniac with a gun could shoot me. At least in the UK maniacs tend to carry knives and I'd fancy my chances of fighting off a knife attack than a gun. Americans always quote the "Right to defend myself" which seems to stem back to when the settlers arrived and you had to defend your bit of land. In a modern world with police we don't need to defend ourselves - you pay your taxes so someone else can do it for you. Guns should be banned - Period. Look at the UK - we have a tiny number of shootings deaths each year. I bet the number of people shot in New York is one week is more than gets shot in the UK in one year. IP: Logged |
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Vitaman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 379) |
posted July 03, 2000 07:58 AM
I am not a NRA member (yet) but I own guns. I also have a license to carry for self defense. I follow all laws pertaining to guns because I know I could loose it in a heart beat. If I was stupid enough to break the law then I deserve to loose all my rights. However I believe no more laws are required and plan on making that an issue at election time when I vote. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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runner Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 105) |
posted July 03, 2000 08:47 AM
stevied's point is well taken...BUT, the die is already cast here in the states. the guns are out there and at this point it appears that any kind of gun control legislation would be like closing the barn door after the horse is gone. i also have great respect for the US Constitution, perhaps the greatest document in the history of man. though i believe america WOULD'VE been a safer place had guns never proliferated, the fact is that we really can't go back...the guns are already in many of the wrong hands. to those who don't believe what the second amendment says is good policy: there is an amendment process to our constitution...repeal it if you can. IP: Logged |
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TrickyTrav Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 26) |
posted July 04, 2000 03:25 AM
GUNS PRESERVE FREEDOM! I WILL SHOOT THE FIRST PERSON WHO COMES THRU MY DOOR TO GET MY GUN...MANCOW IP: Logged |
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The Dude Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 38) |
posted July 04, 2000 08:53 AM
StevieD, I'm sorry that you don't understand (yet, hopefully). I respect your opinion and I hope, that given time you will understand America's passion for guns. I guess you need to be raised as an American to truly understand it. We view the Second Amendment as we view all of the Bill of Rights: it is our God given right. (When I say "we all," I'm speaking generally...a significant majority...) IP: Logged |
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denmaur Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 318) |
posted July 04, 2000 09:00 AM
I never seriously considered joining the NRA until recently, with the push for gun control being supported by Slick Willie and his sidekick Al. Now I'm joining and I'm paying for a membership for my dad and my brother-in-law. I also thought that I'd get a 9mm "some time in the future". Well the time has come my friends. I'm buying all the high capacity mags I can get and other stuff too while its all still legal. Its pretty scary to me to have someone in the White House like we have now and not being able to arm ourselves. God only knows what they would try if we truly were unarmed. IP: Logged |
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Steelsoldier Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 227) |
posted July 04, 2000 10:48 AM
Yhea they can come and take my guns.. amo first! proud to be a member of the N.R.A.. Mark my words ladies and gentlemen there will be a major war in our lifetime, and it will be on american soil. Noone will take away my right to bear arms while i'm still alive! The gov just keeps taking and taking. Without our right to defend ourselves the gov has the power to wwith us as they please because they know there is no chance for us to rebel! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Cleaner Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 436) |
posted July 04, 2000 11:43 AM
You guys are scared now - be very happy that the brady two bill didn't pass. I would have been considered and armory and had to have yearly inspections. SteveD - Man I like your opinion I do understand but until you look from our side you will never get it. We had a lady from england stay with us for a while and I taught her to shot and I quote after shooting my custom 357mag - "For the first time in my life I am not scared of anything or anyone when I hold this gun". Just about every lady I train to shoot say something like that. God created us and gun made us equal. Just a fact. Peace IP: Logged |
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Snapper55 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 68) |
posted July 04, 2000 01:09 PM
denmaur...the war on drugs was a huge failure...what it did was cause minor drug offenders who mess up three times (three strikes and your out) to go to jail for life while gun-weilding criminals as you mentioned are able to see a small percentage of their whole sentence. If guns were outlawed, some of you mentioned that then only the criminals would have guns and they wouldnt be afriad of robbing houses anymore...but if guns were strivly outlawed, criminals carrying power-weapons on the streets would be locked up for a long long time and that would obviously mean less guns on the streets...outlawing guns would lessen incidents like Columbine and would drastically lower the number of accidental shooting deaths (obviously)...say there was a slight increase (going with your theory) in the number of criminals who feel comfortable robbing houses, the numbers would come nowhere near the amount of people saved from being shot by their own family members ------------------ IP: Logged |
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The Dude Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 38) |
posted July 04, 2000 01:21 PM
Snapper55, I'd like to see those numbers. The number is people killed with their own weapons is very small and the issue is blown out of proportion by the media. Lay 'em out for us. IP: Logged |
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Snapper55 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 68) |
posted July 04, 2000 01:24 PM
you guys are all changing my words around...I didnt say those countries had better governments...only that places we make out to be so horrible dont have kids killing kids on a daily basis...a knive? are you kidding, Id rather be stabbed at then shot at...that was a ridiculous arguments...and it is not as if the convservatives dont have their fair share of skeletons in their closet...look at the way they handle pvoerty...they ask for americans to return to traditional family values instead of creating proper legislation that would cost money and take alot of time...how can we return to traditional family values when the divorce rate now stands at 51.9%??? conservatives believe in the term "the underclass" which constitues roughly 20% of those in poverty and says they are there because of their behavior (i.e. drug use, teenage pregnancy, pre-marital sex) I am in the uppermiddle-class and have seen people in my income level engage in all three, they just have been privaledged enough to handle the situations, therefore, the conservative philosophy criminalizes black population in poverty for behvaioral patterns that exist throughout income brackets...the point is that times change, and while the government protected us by giving us the right to bear arms...this is the year 2000 and protecxting us now means taking them away ------------------ IP: Logged |
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The Dude Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 38) |
posted July 04, 2000 01:29 PM
No numbers. I guess when your argument falters all you can do is lash out and attack along other lines. A shame, no numbers.... IP: Logged |
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bikinimom Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 133) |
posted July 04, 2000 01:58 PM
I don't know enough actual statistical evidence to make an intelligent argument for or against I can only offer my own feelings on this debate. As a mother I have to say that the idea that one of my children while taking advantage of their right to an education will be maimed or shot to death by some poor sick twisted bastard looking for attention from parents who are too absorbed with the notion that having matching his and hers BMW's and buying their kids every piece of high-tech plastic junk is more important than asking their kid, "How was your day?" chills me to the bone. Does this mean that I necessarily favor gun control? This is a SERIOUS problem in this country and I don't think that gun control will necessarily solve the problem. The gun violence and violence in general is a complex issue and I honestly don't know what will rectify the situation. Would it help or hurt? I don't know. What I can say is that I have been home with my children for 7 1/2 years. I have recently returned to work, but it is strictly part-time. I only left my children with paid sitters (meaning a non-family member when my oldest was old enough to talk and tell me if something was amiss). I am doing my best to teach my children self-respect as well as to respect others. I am trying to keep them from growing up to quickly by "shielding" them from certain experiences that I believe will rob them of their innocense to soon, yet I am arming them with honest, accurate information when it is necessary. I am trying to maintain and help the integrity of my marriage so that it will continue to flourish and grow so that my children will always feel safe and loved. Perhaps the answers ly not in Washington, but in our own homes. SteveD - I was born and raised here in the US but I had the opportunity to summer frequently in the country where my parents were born and I can see how you can not comprehend this debate. I only wish that I shared in that disbelief! Ubermass - nice to see that you have your priorities straight. IP: Logged |
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komododragon Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 146) |
posted July 04, 2000 02:40 PM
One thing is certain about the meaning of the 2nd Amendment, and every politian including GW and the NRA knows this. Withen the its meaning, its does not stand for the proposition that the government cannot place limitations on guns ownership, including banning the possession of certain types of firearms. The Supreme Court would certainly uphold any law passed by Congress that is reasonable related to the goal of crime and or injury reduction. That is, the Supreme Court, the ultimate interpretor of the meaning of the Constitution, will hold that the 2nd amendment does not prohibit the government from passing laws that restrict gun ownership. The NRA and conservative law makers know that laws passed by congress that restrict gun ownership will pass constitutional muster, that is why their only political strategy is to seek the election of officials who will not pass such laws. IP: Logged |
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The Dude Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 38) |
posted July 04, 2000 04:44 PM
1) The constitution is not meant to be interpreted, is meant to be upheld. 2) The school violence thing is overblown and the result of copycats. Remember fast food shootings or "going postal?" There are always nuts out there who see something happen and feed on it until it's novelty wears off. Looneys cannot be banned! Viva Big Gun, Big Tobacco, Big Oil, Big Chicken, and everything else the government wants to over regulate! Did wonders in the 70's didn't it! But that is another topic... IP: Logged |
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Cleaner Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 436) |
posted July 04, 2000 05:20 PM
In New Zealand they took every semi-auto gun. They gave the owner $400.00 bucks - passed it without the people realy getting a feel for what would happen. Well hate to say it gun related crime went up over 50%, and thats just a fact. The bad guys they caught said that they weren't worried because they knew more than likely they would be the only one with a gun. The meanest weapon that they had at Columbine wasn't a gun. It was the propane bomb they had. 2lb of propane is equal to 6 sticks of danamite(sp). You think the numbers were bad be glad that they didn't get that bomb to work. So lets see - no more propane or any other item that can make a bomb. It all about people control - last I heard there were over 30,000 laws on gun control. We just need to enforce them. Make it know to the public if you fuk around with a gun were going to do more than slap your wrist. Bottom line make the assholes pay. Hang them on TV and the shit will stop. But that is probably to politically incorrect for most. Shit don't go screwin around in Texas - they don't ecxept any BS down there. And thats how it should be. [This message has been edited by Cleaner (edited July 04, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Rexie317 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 242) |
posted July 04, 2000 05:52 PM
Long live Texan policy. The "we put up with absolutly no shit at all w/o roasting your ass" ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Iron God Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 149) |
posted July 04, 2000 07:10 PM
Non-Americans aren't expected to understand the freedoms we have in America have fought for and enjoy lets face it Ladies and Gents our country rules the world both Militarily and politically and they hate us for it, so when you hear garbage about Englands or Japans homicide rate or such and such crime rate just shrug it off these second rate nations can neither taste our victories or know our problems,they have us to thanks for their mere existance.Remember our country was born in blood and fire and the price of Freedom is violence always has been always will be, if you want government mandated safety move to China. Happy 4th everybody.. and long live the Republic!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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The Dude Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 38) |
posted July 04, 2000 07:43 PM
I bow before Iron God's beautifully worded run-on sentence! IP: Logged |
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MightyMouse Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 31) |
posted July 04, 2000 08:49 PM
Bottom line, You allow the Government to take one of your rights from you, the rest shall follow. Concerned Conservative IP: Logged |
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denmaur Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 318) |
posted July 04, 2000 09:58 PM
Snapper-In my opinion the weakness in your argument is where you say If guns were strively outlawed .... criminals would go away for a long long time. What makes you think criminal penalties would be anymore strickly enforced than they are now? If current penalties were stricter and if (hugh IF here) criminals were made to serve their entire sentence there would be much more respect for our system and probably fewer crimes. There would be fewer crimes if for no other reason than more criminals would be locked up and for a longer period of time and would be unable to commit crimes. As an example, my sisters were held up at gun point, they caught the asshole and he was sentenced to 20 years with no chance for parole because he was an armed repeat offender. What happened????? Two years later the asshole was out. Now tell me what message does that send to dirtbags? More laws wont make a difference. We have to enforce the ones on the books now. IP: Logged |
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Snapper55 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 68) |
posted July 05, 2000 01:37 AM
Japan has what is by far the superior legal system in the world...they have a much lower crime rate than us and fewer/smaller jail sentences...their system is based on pride and embarrasment and it works much better than ours, and none of the people have guns, the police dont carry them either, yet there is a tiny crime rate...the people arent oppressed like other countries either...the people simply have more respect for the laws...we do not live in a society where people have respect for one another or fear humiliation, henceforth, we need laws to protect us...if you think the government doesnt uphold punishments )yes, you are right, very often it does not), look at the 3 strikes and your out policy instituted during the "war on drugs"...even minor drug offenders are sentenced to life in prison (no exceptions)...institute this policy for guns and things would work out...but you need VERY STRICT gun laws...people love their guns so much that they let innocent children get shot at school, which is more likely to work...enforcing gun laws (physically possible) or making all families in the US raise their children the right way?????? think about that ------------------ IP: Logged |
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mrbill Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 70) |
posted July 05, 2000 06:50 AM
snapper bro, you are drawing erroneous conclusions from your examples...Japan does have lower crime rates etc. but that does not infer it is only from having no guns or a better legal system. There are a multitude of reasons for the differences in crime rates in Japan vs. U.S., many are based on complex differences in social as well as political structure. As an example the Japanese culture places much more emphasis on qualities such as respect for elders and placing the good of society above one's own personal desires. In contrast the U.S. is a very individualistic society that places high value on personal satisfaction. Japan is also a highly homogenous society in contrast to the extreme heterogenous nature of the U.S., this leads to much more social friction between classes and races due to perceived or actual wrongs. Your argument is based on a "false cause fallacy". A simple example of this is if I claimed I made the sun rise every morning when I get up and based this statement on the fact that after I get up in the morning the sun does indeed rise. Obviously, though the events do happen as stated it would be a false assumption on my part to infer from these events that one "caused" the other. The fact that the sun does rise after I wake up is an independent, coincidental event. People often make false jumps in logic such as this and attribute event 1 as being caused by event 2 when they are actually independent events. To prove causation it is necessary to remove all other possible variables and to test the suspected variable independently. Finally, I completely agree with you that it is a tragedy that a child or any innocent person dies from the accidental or wrongful use of a firearm. However, this is no more tragic than a death from a car accident, drowning, etc. One must also factor into the "equation" how many lives are saved from the use of firearms, this is rarely done by those who favor banning firearms. Peace. IP: Logged |
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Iron God Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 149) |
posted July 05, 2000 08:53 AM
Dude, LMAO!!! Must have been all the beer and BBQ. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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krzysiu013 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 05, 2000 01:15 PM
if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns... get a clue, i cannot wait until concealed carry passes in illinois. im not holding my breath, there are still too many democrats here. chris IP: Logged |
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Karate guy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 482) |
posted July 05, 2000 09:34 PM
LIVE FREE OR DIE IP: Logged |
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Rexie317 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 242) |
posted July 06, 2000 03:05 AM
Like krzysiu013 said bout the outlawing of guns. What smart criminal would say "B/c the good people of society are turnin their guns in maybe I should too." None. Hell, not even a regular criminal would say that. But I bet ya that if every citizen had a gun that a smart criminal would say "Damn man the next guy I try to mug might have a gun on him and could kill my ass." That mofo would think long and hard before he told someone to hand over their wallet. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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