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At the very least, I find it hard to RESPECT fat people. I don't hate them, don't necessarily look down on them, but just know they have less will, less pride, and less desire to be the best that they can be...UNLIKE ME!
Angel of Death...once again, your logic is skewed...being black, brown, short, or from a certain country are not at all CONTROLLABLE!! Obesity is. There are drugs, diets, and training plans for everyone!

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Badkins -- How can you judge the will or pride of someone you do not know? How can you claim that they are somehow inferior?

You're logic is flawed. You are assuming that the fat person you are looking at wants to be physically fit. Only if this person wants to be fit and is unable to attain it can they be considered weak.

In order to take pride in something, it must have value. I purport that for many obese people, appearance has no value. Thus, exercise and nutrition are worthless.

This kind of logic makes you in the very least close-minded and perhaps down right bigoted. If someone chooses a different value system than yours or perhaps prioritizes things different than you, it does not make them less of a person.

I don't think that ANYONE ON THIS PLANET, who is obese to the point where their daily activies are effected, hindered, etc., or that are so fat that people mock them, would not like to be skinny/skinnier. Hence the success of EAS's Body-For-Life, Gold's Gym's similar contest, and an array of others that pop up everyday.

It is proven that obesity heightens your risk for all types of cancer, strokes, diabetes, and the list goes on an on...

The "look" may not be for everyone, but the lifestyle should be in my opinion. Over 1/2 of this country, the richest country in the world with more technology than we know what to with, is obese! Not "overweight," not "chuuby," not "pleasantly plump," BUT FAT...OBESE!!

If you can show me, that as a whole, fat people are as healthy and happy as the physically fit, then I will admit that I have the same amount of respect for them as myself or another average bodybuilder/fitness competitor, or someone like my Mom and Dad who just work out for fun!

My logic is right on...

Being fat is a hard thing to deal with, I will not pretend that it's not...but like I said, EVERYONE who wants to lose weight and get healthy will find a way...

Those that don't will continue to be lazy, unhealthy, and will continue to be mocked!

I am not condoning the mocking, but since I used to be fat myself, I understand it. I look back and am totally embarassed about how fat I let myself get in high school...

It's that simple...

How can anyone respect someone that doesn't respect themselves?? It's just like smoking--and I know I'll have people on my ass for this one--in that they are literally committing "slow suicide" as I call it...plain and simple!! No way around it...

**I'm just a popular player these days aren't I, this is the 4th post in a week with my beautiful name in the subject line, BWAAHAHAHAHAHA!!**

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Originally posted by Wombat:
Fat people can lose a ton of weight and still be lazy----and get skinny these days, if you have to dough--------HENCE---THAT CHICK FROM WILSON PHILILPS-----

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She has a gastric bypass - Kneepads was one of the people who worked on her - post op. Seems to be the easy way out for some people BUT they no longer get to enjoy food. Their average meal is 4 ounces of food. Four ounces... shit.. you should see me at a buffet.... Most people think that gastric bypass operation is the solution. Lots of risks involved as well as a lifetime obligation to smaller portions of food.

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It is a proven fact that being at a healthy bodyweight and being physically fit is good for you. No matter what McDonald's advertisements would like to tell you.

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I don't think that ANYONE ON THIS PLANET, who is obese to the point where their daily activies are effected, hindered, etc., or that are so fat that people mock them, would not like to be skinny/skinnier.

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Did you get that in a s�ance? Badkins, this is the kernel of my argument. You have no right to speak for the populace. You are simply repeating the same irrationalness.

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It is proven that obesity heightens your risk for all types of cancer, strokes, diabetes, and the list goes on an on...

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See argument #1. We are not debating health here.

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The "look" may not be for everyone, but the lifestyle should be in my opinion. Over 1/2 of this country, the richest country in the world with more technology than we know what to with, is obese! Not "overweight," not "chuuby," not "pleasantly plump," BUT FAT...OBESE!!

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So what? Once again, you straying from the point in question.

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If you can show me, that as a whole, fat people are as healthy and happy as the physically fit, then I will admit that I have the same amount of respect for them as myself or another average bodybuilder/fitness competitor, or someone like my Mom and Dad who just work out for fun!

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I thought you would do better...

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My logic is right on...

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Being fat is a hard thing to deal with, I will not pretend that it's not...but like I said, EVERYONE who wants to lose weight and get healthy will find a way...

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Now I am starting to get frustrated. What the fuck are you talking about? We are debating the fact that everyone wants to lose weight. I am saying they don't and therefore you cannot judge someone based on the assumption that they do.

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Those that don't will continue to be lazy, unhealthy, and will continue to be mocked!

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I am not condoning the mocking, but since I used to be fat myself, I understand it. I look back and am totally embarassed about how fat I let myself get in high school...

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It's that simple...

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How can anyone respect someone that doesn't respect themselves?? It's just like smoking--and I know I'll have people on my ass for this one--in that they are literally committing "slow suicide" as I call it...plain and simple!! No way around it...

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**I'm just a popular player these days aren't I, this is the 4th post in a week with my beautiful name in the subject line, BWAAHAHAHAHAHA!!**

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I very rarely engage in debates on this board because the majority of the constituents are both stubborn and ignorant and not worth my time. I am making an exception here.

Now, badkins, lets try this again. You think that fat people "have less will, less pride, and less desire." It is my position that you are incorrect. I feel that you are incorrect because an obese person does not necessarily dislike him/herself and desire to change. If this person does not want to change, you cannot conclude that they lack willpower, pride, or desire.

Quit skirting the issue. Be salient, please...

peace... Puc

Now to answer your question...YES! I think that I have more will, more desire, and more pride than a lazy fat person. Why?? First hand experience. I was fat. I got skinny. Those that are fat--I still content--would...DEEP DOWN...like to not be! That's why I said it's "that simple!"

From my experiences as a bodybuilder, football player, personal trainer, and from working at a health food store, I can tell you that the happiest fat person is not even close to being as happy as a healthy--not skinny, healthy--person would be with the exact same life.

And it can be done. And those that choose not to do it--or stick with it in most cases--lack the necessary will, pride, and desire to do it!

I'm not familiar with the surgery that was spoken of so I can't comment on that...

Really, I don't think it goes much deeper than that...call me narrow-minded, naive, whatever, but I genuinely believe that ANYONE can lose weight, anyone can look fit...

As far as judging who's healthier, fat people or gear heads...that's open for interpretation...there have not been enough--any--studies on gear that would yield any rationale on it unfortunately...

Let me know if this cleared anything up, or if it didn't!!

Adios amigo!!

BLAIR---IF YOU ATTEMPT TO KUREKT MY EBONICZ REPLY I WILL BE AT TEXUS A&M IN A MATTER OF OURS!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!! WE KNOW I'M EDUCATED---SAVE THE KUREKSHUNS FOUR SUMONE WHO NEEDZ IT!!!!!!! (I DONT THINK I NEED TO EXPLAIN THE SARCASM HERE DO I????????)

All right, lets do it like this...

From my position as an ex-fatty I will agree with you that just about anyone can be at a healthy weight if they desire to.

If you are claiming that in the collective the large (pun) MAJORITY of obese people would like to be thinner, I will agree.

If you are claiming that they all do, then you are sadly mistaken. I offer my brother as an example. He is brilliant (smarter than you and me combined), content, and spherical. He has no desire to lose weight. None. I used to think he was just claiming contenture, but I now know I was wrong.

Based on the latter, surmising a person you meet is malcontent because of their physical appearance is being prejudicial.

Now, we all harbor prejudices. God knows I have my share (frat boys, in particular). Just don't be so absolute in your debasement.

If I were to claim all black people are loud based on the fact that the majority I have met are, I would be called prejudice. Your claim is tantamount.

Yes, I am a former fatty and still I could lose about 30 more lbs. I have dieted, excersised, dieted more and tried about every supplement possible yet my weight has remained static for about 2 years, yet I am in shape for a man of 41. I hardly ever get out of breath during my cardio yet keep my heart rate around 130. I am happy.

Think what you want, yet I have said and continue to say "Treat people the way you would like to be treated by them".

My .02$

Puc...again, I never said I TREAT fat people differently...I would hesitate to use the word PREJUDICE, because a prejudice attitude will necessarily lead to action.

With no action, it is only an opinion...I still hold the opinion that 99% of fat people would rather--IF GIVEN THE CHOICE--be skinny/healthy! Knowing (thinking if you will) that, all that holds them back is will, pride, and desire...

I don't think 99% of black people are loud...

You have to play the odds in life...there will be exceptions to EVERY rule in the book, but you cannot use that as evidence against the majority!!

'Til next time...

BTW...cm3504jm...if you have any questions about diet/training, feel free to drop me an e-mail...are you using any "real" supplements, not the bullshit over-the-counter products?? Everyone will hit sticking points, no matter if you're trying to get big or small...your body will fight harder than you to stay in homeostasis...sometimes these cannot be broken naturally--unfortunately!!

My .02!

I like you man, this thread is a good example of a calm, flameless discussion...a rarity (if you will) these days on this board. We both expressed our opinions in an articulate manner, did not need to insult anyone to make a point, and ended it like adults, hopefully having both opened our eyes a bit wider concerning this subject...

Just my take on it...look forward to discussing things with ya' in the future--even if your name is a synonym for regurgitation...AND FOR SOME ODD REASON, YOU HAVE THIS TINY SHRED OF ADMIRATION FOR THE ANGEL OF IGNORANCE...judging by how you acted on this thread, I would think that you would be as opposed to his "style" and demeanor as I am...???

LOL! Peace here, too bro'!