quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
A surplus means that the taxpayers paid too much, now the Demo's want to spend that money to pay down our national debt. Can you imagine giving a store $10 for something that costs $5 and them telling you that you can't have your money back because their company made some bad decisions back in the 80's and they really need it. Now, I think paying down the debt is a good thing. But that is something that needs to be voted on in Congress. Instead the Demo's are saying: "Well they paid too much, let's spend it anyway". No dice. They should do what Ventura did when there was a surplus in Minnesota. He sent everyone a check who paid too much. That's how it should work, you pay too much and you get your $ back. Where I'm from, taking money is called stealing...

[This message has been edited by Mr. T (edited March 08, 2001).]

---

What people seem to forget is that it was the dems that approved the tax cuts in the 80's that resulted in the debt. Now they want to penalize us today to pay it off instead of changing their huge spending on social programs.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MP5:
2thick should change his name here to "propoganda".

---

LOL that sounds pretty funny...

But seriously, when you hear something on TV for the 1st time (the night before) and then every sheep repeats it without being able to explain what it really means, that is called propaganda.

quote:

---

Originally posted by john937:
The problem with your analogy is the we/them(store) part.
It's all OUR debt. We are the store.

---

I don't know about you, but I don't remember borrowing money from anybody.

-Warik

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
2Thick- When did opinions of one US citizen become propoganda?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MP5:
Hey 2thick, how is your new lame-ass board "anabolicfitness.net" coming along. That place is a joke when you got guys like decaman running things. Whys are all the normal bros like E2, Ulter etc hanging with that zero?

---

Why do you say that it is my board?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
2Thick- If you have read any of my posts in the past you would know that I have always thought that we are overtaxed in the US. I am actually an independant. An ideology is a set of beliefs. This is only one about taxes. Not my fault other people think we are overtaxed. Our founding fathers thought we were overtaxed too. It's kind of in our blood. Next time don't jump the gun and make assumptions about my beliefs. If I am a republican than I am the only one that thinks it's OK for gays to marry and all drugs should be legalized. When you assume 2Thick you only make an ASS out of U and ME.

---

An ideology is not a stance on issues. It is an all encompassing set of beliefs. The belief in individualism, freedom, etc is an ideology. Politics are not important in an ideology since politics assume that you have a shared set of norms and values that keeps the nation stable enough to argue over the details.

If you didn't share the US ideology then you would be in a cabin in the middle of the woods stockpiling weapons...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
I'm not sure how stupid you are but it says right in the post of mine that you quoted that an ideology is a set of beliefs. Are you getting tired or something? You misused ideology in saying that my post was one. In fact, my post is a stance on one issue. Come on Professor, teach me more.

---

Okay I will try to type slower for you.

If you didn't buy into the ideology of the USA, you would not be buying a computer, using the Internet, going to work, watching CNBC, ect, etc, etc.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 2Thick:
Nobody ever thought of tax dollars as their money until people in the media began saying it.

---

I have always thought of tax dollars as my money. My father has always thought of tax dollars as his money. My friends and their families (some of whom are NOT a part of the "ruling class") have always thought of tax dollars as their money.

Taxing the population to pay for necessary government expenses such as upkeep of the military is understandable and completely un-opposed by me. Doing what the government is doing is bullshit.

2Thick's friend: "Hey 2Thick, can I have $1,000?"

2Thick: "Uhh... why?"

2Thick's friend: "Don't worry about it. I'll tell you later."

2Thick: "Uhh... sorry, no."

Now pretend that you can't say no. The only difference between the above conversation and real life is that the government is not your friend.

-Warik

------------------

Nobody ever used the phrase "The tax cut is money I overspent, I want my money back" until it was said on TV.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Warik:
I don't know about you, but I don't remember borrowing money from anybody.

-Warik

---

Then you don't remember the 80's.
MP5's post is right, Regan cut taxes, the demos approved it, and both the repubs and demos increased defense spending.
That created deficits and inflation and still has yet to be paid off.
And your taxes are going to pay it one way or another.
Pay it now, or pay it later with interest.
Doesn't matter that you Warik didn't personally take out the loan.
Just as you now are paying for your elder's social security payments, one generation can pass on debt to later generations, like it or not.
The honorable thing to do is to pay it off before it becomes our children's problem.
If you don't like this course of action, you have three alternatives:
1. ignore it and let it ruin the lives of our children as the interest payment on the deficit grows and takes over the national budget
2. convince the US Congress to default on the national debt - Good luck!
3. Leave the country.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 2Thick:
Warik,

Nobody ever used the phrase "The tax cut is money I overspent, I want my money back" until it was said on TV.

You know that is what I meant.

---

This is true.

Do you deny the fact that most people felt that way, however? Do you deny the fact that most Americans feel that they are over-taxed, be they the poorest of the poor (wait.. they don't pay taxes. no wonder they aren't upset) to the richest of the rich?

Who would hear their voices? No one. No one would care. People care now.

I honestly can't think of a reason why ANYONE would argue against a tax cut unless he (you) were playing the fun "I'm arguing against what I'm really for" game.

You don't play this one too well. Maybe you should stick to guns instead. I had more fun in that thread.

-Warik

------------------

PS I like how you think Americans go to work as part of some ideology and not because of survival. Are you on medication today or are you just one of those people that gets off on annoying people?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
2Thick- So by owning a computer and owning a TV I am a sheep? Wouldn't that make you a sheep also? After all, what are you typing on right now? I watch TV because I like it, I own a computer for the free porn. You know nothing about Americans...

---

Yes, I am one also. I never said that I wasn't. The difference is that I know I am one. It would be impractical to totally go against the grain. I am not a Bill Gates so I cannot do what I want without serious repercussions.

I lived in the states for 12 years. If you are familiar with consumerism, you will know it has noting to do with survival and everything to do with owing "stuff". Only 10% of the population are part of the underclass that cannot afford food and shelter. That means 90% buy stuff with their extra money.

Do you have any idea how fast the national debt is growing every day? Are you aware of the fact that Bill Gates could dump his entire fortune into the "pay off the national debt fund" and it wouldn't even make a dent? It's not going to be paid off in your lifetime.

Speaking of paying for my elder's Social Security payments, that's another good reason why the debt is so high. If the government weren't wasting tax money by putting into the illegal Social Security program, it could be putting that money into paying off the national debt. I am more in favor of paying off the national debt than I am paying for the retirement of millions of irresponsible individuals who didn't take care of their own finances throughout the first 65 (or is it 67 now? I see the government is trying to increase the age hoping that you all die before you get a chance to claim your "benefits") years of life.

I think one matter that hasn't been addressed in the entire discussion of the national debt is: "Who really cares?"

You don't see anybody asking us for the money back. You don't see anyone threatening us saying: "give me my money or I'll beat you up during recess." What's the big deal? (BTW: That is a question, not a "we shouldn't pay off the national debt because it's not a big deal." WHY is it a big deal? If someone owed me over a trillion dollars, I don't think I'd wait a couple of generations before asking for it back.)

-Warik

------------------

Warick- Well said, that's what I always say. No one is ever going to make us pay them back anyway.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
Than how do you not know that being anti-tax is very American, not something that CNN invented?

---

You yourself said that the founding fathers (and the creators of the US ideology) started a revolution because of unfair taxation. Being antitax is part of American heritage.

I was talking about the phrasing of the words. Taxes were thought to be the price of freedom. It is not money that you can get back.

Okay, any more questions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck. We don't choose to work in the US to by a TV. We do it to keep a fuckin roof over our heads.]

---

Wrong, big guy. Most Americans are working class and middle class. They are only living a harder life because of consumerism. If they stopped buying stuff they don't need then they would be fine. Food is dirt cheap in the US and so is property. You must really try see (and learn) about the rest of the world.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
Yes, you said that I got that idea from CNN. (the people keeping their $) Now you say that it is a basic American belief. Pick an argument and try to stay with it. You wandering...

---

Have you ever heard anyone say "I want the money that I overpaid the government back"? No you haven't because it was started by the pro-tax-cut people to sell their plan and everyone just parrots it like they thought of it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
Yes, people in the US live beyond their means because they can, big guy. But going to work is not part of their ideology. They have to!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

Do you read your posts before pushing "submit"?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
Why would I, you quote them all anyway. They must be important to you. Didn't you just say that insults show frustration, oh wise one?

---

It was a question, not an insult.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 2Thick:
If they stopped buying stuff they don't need then they would be fine. Food is dirt cheap in the US and so is property.

---

THAT'S RIGHT! Food and property are dirt cheap in the United States! There is no valid excuse for poverty! IT IS YOUR FAULT THAT YOU ARE POOR (not you, talking to the poor), NOT MINE! LEAVE MY FUCKING MONEY ALONE!! I EARNED IT!!! WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO DO THE SAME?!?!?!?!

That is all. Thanks a lot. Glad to see you have changed sides.

Your pal,
-Warik

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Warik:
john,
I am more in favor of paying off the national debt than I am paying for the retirement of millions of irresponsible individuals who didn't take care of their own finances throughout the first 65 ... I Don't see anybody asking us for the money back. ... If someone owed me over a trillion dollars, I don't think I'd wait a couple of generations before asking for it back.)

-Warik

---

The national debt is finanaced thru US Treasury debt. The Fed creates money in the form of Treasury Bonds which are purchased in the form of US Bonds and by banks and Savings and loans. That's what you hear refered to by the prime rate. We definitly are paying the interest on the national debt whether anyone calls up Warik to tell him about it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. T:
HAHAHA, your to funny 2Thick. I give "theological" responses to your questions. Where do I mention God or religeon? Your answer was a question, a sarcastic one.

---

Bro, I think he meant you trying to answer somthing by saying that it exists and things are the way they are for a reason. That is how people explain religion. There ain't no proof. Just the way things are. I think that was what he meant by "theological". Dude you can't see the forrest for the trees.

quote:

---

Originally posted by john937:
Those irresponsible people you're talking about won World War II and paid Social Security payments into a system for their whole lives, and now want their benefits. They earned it, they were in no way irresponsible.

---

Precisely. THEY paid for the system all THEIR lives and should receive THEIR benefits. Why do I have to do with their benefits? Those who put money into the system should get it back. Those who want nothing to do with the system should not have to pay for it. Do you disagree?

-Warik

------------------