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 Chesty's America not in the top ten for violent crime thread...
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| Author | Topic: Chesty's America not in the top ten for violent crime thread... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1173 |
I wanted to start a new thread because I did not want to weed through all of the crap. Anyway, I think using a study out of Holland to back up your argument is ludicrous. Especially since every study I have ever seen (I'm a Crim major) indicates that the US and Russia have the highest violent crime rates. The rest of the world is not even close. That study you had was complete bull. They actually counted burglary as a violent crime!! Did somebody knock down the door to the house violently!??? Chest, I thought you used to be a cop or something? I believe your argument that guns don't create more crime. But the evidence you used for that argument is way off base.    | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1393 |
yeah sucka, what T said  | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 2220 |
lol @ SS. Well T, thats a damn fine point you have there. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1237 |
I can assure you that kicking in someones door has the potential to being violent situation | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
If someone was home in would be robbery. Not burglary. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 725 |
Mr T was always my hero | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
LOL...can't wait to hear chesty's reply to this one. Very good point Mr. T. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1237 |
ok robbery, what about if someones pets are their while they are out? and the pet is killed...I know someone is going to laugh at this but the pets owner probably wouldn't what would that be? 1 more thing, perhaps someone kicks in that door and leaves a few little surprises for the homeowner when they return...Something that would bite them in the butt so to speak [This message has been edited by TxCollegeguy (edited March 06, 2001).] | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
TxCollege....y'all have strange criminals down there if they do things like that. here they just take your stuff and leave. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1237 |
a friend of mine had a pitbull that was trained to chew anyone who entered their home when him and his faimly were away....They found the dog with most of it's face all over their kitchen floor including torn tissue and teeth that were broken from the dog. I'm glad his brothers kids didn't come home to find it. The cops collected some tissue and teeth as evidence but nothing ever came of it | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
Im not aware of any agency that counts cruelty to animals as violent crime. But even if they did that would be a separate charge, not burglary. Burglary is not a violent crime. I just think that using a study from Buttfuck University in Holland is a wash. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2808 |
T, Debating whether or not burglary is violent misses the point of the post. Saying burglary is "non-violent" does not dismiss it as a crime against the population. Goods have to be replaced, money spent to do so, time spent to fill out a police report, emotional distress from teh sanctity of the home being violated (how well are you going to sleep that night?), etc. Burglary has effects far beyond attacking a dog (wtf?) or loss/damage of property. As such, it should be included in any statistical study of crimes. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
agreed Matt, but apparently this was a study of VIOLENT crime. The arguement is whether or not burglary is violent. I say no...rape, murder, wife and child beatings...that is VIOLENT crime. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1237 |
it might be considered violent if in the act of burglary they damage your home inorder to cause physical harm ex:cutting your gas line, leaving a bomb | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
Yeah, that was my point. But for some reason dogs came up. My point was the validity of the study... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
leaving a bomb...oh for chrissakes...gimme a break. You people are wacko. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2808 |
The validity of the study is NOT compromised by a small modification to the definition of violent. We should all agree that burglary CAN be a violent crime....it's not always, but it may be. There are armed break-ins and confrontations to be sure. And certainly, burglary compromises a person's feeling of safety and well-being within their own home. We'd define assault as violent, yet assault could be getting smacked by a drunk jackass at a bar. Would that compromise your feeling of personal safety in your home? Probably not. Burglary is more than just property theft. The conclusion of the study is no less valid if burglary is left out: People's well-being is being threatened BY CRIME at a higher rate in many other countries than in the US. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
Matt- Heres what your not getting, confronting someone with a weapon and taking something is armed robbery. Not burglary. Burglary cannot be a violent crime because there is no confrontation. If info was incuded in a study that is not valid, the study is not valid. I studied crime for 4 years as an undergraduate, the US violent crime rate is not even close to that of other countries besides Russia. Trust me. I'll try the UN's site to get some stats... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
I would think any middle eastern country would takethe cake as far as violent crime...those guys kill women for no reason. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
Heres an article about world murder rates. No Middle Eastern Countries in the lot. No contest. I'll try to find some more... http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/newsid_153000/153988.stm | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
The middle east wasnt surveyed in that report..plus, the majority of crimes there, especially against women arent reported. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 273 |
Thats what i�ve always red Mr.T... And i read now that the kid who killed 2 in Cali had 7 rifles at home... And i bet he was a law abidding citizen as you like to say... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2767 |
Matt, by definition, Burglary is something done when the individual(s) are NOT home. When they ARE home, it is called robbery. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
Thats true Kat. But the DOJ reports that 1 out of every 5 US women will be raped in their lifetime. I know about the atrocities in the Middle East, but the US Violent crime rate is much worse. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
Either way Mr. T, no offense to Americans or Middle Easterners, I'm glad i live here. dumb looking maple leaf flag and all. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
HeHeHe. To be continued Kat. Im going to grab some dinner... | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2808 |
Frackal and Mr T, You guys are "squirreling" the definition of burglary. Is this supposed to be a thread about the definiton of burglary, or the crime rate in the US? if it is about crime rate, then burglary must be included, because a home invasion is unpleasant - knowing that some fucko was in your house.....think about it - It should certainly be included if you're talking about safety of quality of life, which are two things directly affected by the commission of crime. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
you know Matt, you are upon occasion nitpicky and anal which detracts from the arguement, which I suspect is actually a tactic you use to win because the person gets so frustrated they give up. Is this true? | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2767 |
Actually matt I agree that burglary should be included, I am just bored and wanted to point that out. | ||
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Mutant  
Posts: 3083 |
Don't kick to door in at my house! It will get violent. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2808 |
Kat, Nitpicky is basing the validity of the conclusion on the definition of "burglary" when the real issues are safety and quality of life....which are both compromised by crimes including burglary. In this case I stuck to the broad horizons and avoided being nitpicky. It was everyone who debated the nature of burglary who nitpicked. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 88 |
I agree with Mr.T that the study has validity problems. If it did include burglery it did not measure what it was intended to measure which was violent crime, if it set out to measure all crime then its a different story. The US does have similar rates of property crimes as other nations but what sets us apart is the rate of violent crimes. When the US is said to have the highest violence rates, that includes 1st world countrys only. 3rd world countrys are not included in the studys so it is very likely that some of the middle eastern countries have a higher rate. It is curently being debated weather or not Russias rates should be included , some argue that it is in fact a third world country do to the economy. I hope this makes sense I typed it pretty fast. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 273 |
Yes Russia is now a third world country... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2199 |
WEll, I definatley admit to being anal and nitpicky...my moon's in Virgo, so I blame it on my horoscope. LOL...  However, I have yet to win an arguement because of it because my hot tempered Sagittarius sun gets in the way...being half horse makes one somewhat clumsy you know.  BWAAHHAA! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1173 |
The thread is about the validity of the study Matt. Burglary is a part of that study. I was just pointing out how silly it is to included burglary in a study of violent crime. |
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posted March 06, 2001 11:59 AM