So, to all my anti-gun friends, don't tell me how wonderful anti gun laws are and how the US needs more of them and to give up our GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO FIREARM OWNERSHIP!
By Jon Dougherty
� 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United
States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new
international study
says that America's former master -- Great Britain -- has much higher levels
of crime.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in
Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime
among
industrialized nations.

Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the
population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list
with more than
30 percent of its population victimized.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized
nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of
victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most
categories of crime."

Highlights of the study indicated that:

The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England
and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States
and 0.4
percent in Japan.

Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded.
Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of
burglary with
entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 26
percent, according to 1995 figures;

"After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was
in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The
United
States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries
with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.

England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of
the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in
Australia
and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10"
nations.

The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent
of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second
with 3.1
percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.
Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates --
just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish
Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.

Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other
industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control
laws, but were
overall much more violent than the U.S.

Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence
website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a
much safer
country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996.

"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia
actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a
Foster's,
and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.

"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder,
assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last
for
which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a firearm
declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.

However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime
victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988,
to 28.6
percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.

Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates
was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note
that
Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary (3.9
percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall
victimization
(about 31 percent).

Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).

In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun
ban, violent crime had increased in the country.

WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban
promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different
story:

Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent.
In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping
steadily.
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and
assaults on the elderly.

In Washington, D.C. Total ban on guns and one of the most violent places to live in the US, Arizona for instance has concealed carry, you can walk down the street with it in plain sight strapped on and we are no where near what I would consider violent.

Bad things happen when good folks don't stand up.

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LAte

however, if you knew the right people, getting a handgun would pose absolutely no problem at all. no shit. it's all fucked up right here.

i doubt that statistics there though.

Don't doubt the statistics, research them for yourself, contact the University that did the study and read.

Your right, gun laws that take away our rights only effect us the law abiding. Because we obey the laws. Criminals don't.

Look at drugs, steroids included, they are all illegal, yet we all know how to get them, anything we want. Go figure.

quote:

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Originally posted by chesty:
Food for thought, the most choosen caliber for a murder by a professional is a .22.

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if you were told who those pros were they might have to kill you....j/k

You would be surprised at where you could find these pro's. Even amatuers know that a 22 is great for killing. It has the worst ballistic fingerprint, and to put as steve martin did in my blue heaven:

A 45 makes a big mess, but a 22 when you shoot them in the head, ...it just kind rattles around in there. No fuss, no muss.

A. No guns, no violence or at least it is so small it isn't worth worrying about

B. When you hear a report about how bad the US is for violence you belive it. But when a report shows the US to be not as violent as European nations and Down Under, it must not be correct, even if done by a European University.

C. Why if anti gun laws and the total ban of guns is so great, why does crime increase whenever and wherever these are enacted? Not just violent crime, but in most cases all crime.

D. If C is true, then why in places where gun laws are less strict, concealed carry or open carry is allowed is the crime rate in general lower than those places with the strictest gun laws or total gun bans?

Some more cut and paste:

These measures have put Draconian regulations on the law-abiding gun owners of Great Britain and done little to reduce crime. On Jan. 16, 2000, the London Times published an article about the increase in gun crimes, and bemoaning the fact that there are an estimated three million unregistered guns in the nation. Besides confirming the inescapable fact that criminals don't bother to license their guns, the article stated that fatal shootings in London more than doubled between 1998 and 1999, and overall armed crime rose 10%.

So, if licensing honest gun owners doesn't reduce crime--and how could it?--what is the real purpose? For British gun owners, the answer came too late, when the government that licensed them finally decreed that they were not "fit to be entrusted" to own handguns for any reason. Gun owners in the U.S. can not plead ignorance--here the true purpose of licensing gun owners was defined nearly a quarter-century ago by the founder of Handgun Control, Inc. "Our ultimate goal," Pete Shields said is "total control of handguns in the United States." (The New Yorker magazine, July 26, 1976)

.

Just kidding

No one is saying that god invented guns.

The term God given was specifically chosen by the founding fathers to ensure that any right of the people that they didn not want to ever be taken away was gauaranteed to not be. A right, a god given right is a right that was that of the people since the beginning of time and any right such as that cannot be legislated or decided upon by kings and queens. This was the fear of the founding fathers, that in time the gov't they set up and fought for would take away the rights of the people.

You see in England, the peasants had no rights except those given by the king or queen. And since these were given by them, they could be taken back.

The right of gun ownership goes beyond just owning a gun, it is also the right to protection, and freedom from tyranny. You see our founding fathers new that one day our gov't would get to big for its own shoes and become tyrannical and in that event they wanted the people to have a means to resist and fight back that gov't.

In fact, they said, it is the right of the people to have a revolution, to overthrough the gov't if it no longer served the people, but instead served itself.

Everyone should read the book: "More guns, less crime" interesting read.

------------------
"It's a good day to be alive, sir, It's a good day to be alive he said..."

quote:

---

Originally posted by SMASH NZ:
Barbarian, wasn't there a big crackdown on semiauto's in Aussie after that shooting in Tasmania?

---

aye that's right.

the Port Arthur Massacre was the sole motivation for a massive gun buy-back scheme, involving any and every semi-auto, auto, handgun, military style weapon etc. in the country. 19 people killed, a nation scandalized and they spent millions of dollars taking away all the legally registered guns.

I suggest you post some hard evidence to back up your claim. What you see on this board is called freedom of speech, the right to freely express your ideas and thoughts without the fear of persecution. Nothing more.

quote:

---

Originally posted by barney:
Barb, whats your thought on One Nations view that the PtArth Massacre was a setup by antigun lobbyists? i like One Nation but they always seem to fuck up by saying some whacked out stupid shit when they are just starting to win over the people.

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that's the most pathetic political statement in the entire world. designed purely for publicity purposes.

if not, then left affiliated anti-gun lobbyists took a paranoid schizophrenic, gave him half a dozen rifles, and told him to faff off to a popular tourist destination and kill as many people as possible.

One Nation has a political place, and performs what *could* be described as a useful role as a medium of the protest vote, but they aren't a political party you can take seriously.

however, every time they make little johnny sweat bullets by injecting their own particular brand of "common sense" into the political spectrum, i can't help but smile.

I believe i read that Canada was in one of the categories,, Braking and enter I believe.. Someone I just don't belive it.

Also was this done on all countries? I would think some of these third world countries where they cut your hands off for stealing etc.. would be much higher!

Kat, of course statistics can be manipulated, but read the article. The NRA is not behind that study any more than HCI is.

If you do not believe the article, go to a website for the University and find out about the study for yourself.

Don't assume that because it does ot support your point of view that it must be wrong.

Can no one answer the questions I posted above?

Oh look here, some guy made home made gas bombs to kill 23 people in a shopping mall

Oh look here someone killed 15 people when he went crazy and took a bow and some arrows to his workplace..

oh look here some lady killed 10 people when she went nuts and took a baseball bat to people's heads at a funeral.

Gee, a gunman opens fire in California. One of the most heavily gun controlled areas in the nation.

Did you or anyone ever stop to consider that gun control does not work, but that criminal control does.

Oh, and if we had no cars there would be no dui's and if we had no airplanes there would be no airplane crashes.

Post an article that supports your views.

I tend to trust research that publishes its findings along with its data and how it was used and where it came from, such as in this case. Most gun control people will publish findings that support their views, but without the data used or how it was obtained. I wonder why this is.

You see we have nothing to hide, maybe they do. Since most studies seem to refute gun control as an effective means of criminal control.

Can you say you have never known a person to be shot, have never even seen, let alone fired a handgun? That you do not know a single soul out of the hundreds of people you currently know who have owned a gun?

I can, and I am quite happy that way.
Why do you insist on ramming your gun happy views down the throats of those who arent like that?

I watched my supervisor get stabbed to death by a steak knife on a domestic violence call one night. I guess we should outlaw steak knives.

I posted an article, I did not ask you to believe it or not and I am certainly not forcing you to believe it.

Again, I ask you or anyone who believes differently to post your evidence and not in the form of emotioal, I live because of this or I believe that, but hard evidence that can either be supported or refuted.

Don't get so emotional, it only detracts from your argument and I know you more intelligent than to use emotionalism to make your point.

This is the 3rd or 4th post youve made regarding this subject....whereas, though you call me emotional, the subject does not bother me enough to post any titles regarding it at all.

Australia ranks 4th in highest rate of car thefts...preceeded by England,Poland and Bulgaria.

Every 4 minutes one car is stolen in Australia.

Every year 150,000 cars are stolen in Australia.

Is this bad,?? consider Asutralia has a population of only 22 million.

I'm a pro gun supporter, but I do not own anything more then a 1960s pump action BB gun if you want to call it a gun

88 million people in the U.S. own guns what do you think other countries think about when the idea of an invasion of this country is talked about?

do you not think this adds a bit to our national security? Even if they bombed the hell out of us and then invaded chances are good whoever is left will still have a gun to fight back, or if they don't have a gun they could find one.

I just tell you what I am told, I do not know of her bias on the subject nor anyone elses nor was it solicited from her.

Funny, in Germany, total gun control was tried and looked what that led to

Swearing, oh my I said shit ooops better take that back. You were the one stating it was being crammned down your throat.

That is the other nice thing about freedom of speech I can say what I want as often as I want.

The point of the steak knife is that any thing can be used as a weapon, so maybe we should regulate and delegate who gets to own what device after they have signed a statement as to its intended purpose and after recieving months of training.

quote:

---

Originally posted by barney:
CAR THEFTS.......

Australia ranks 4th in highest rate of car thefts...preceeded by England,Poland and Bulgaria.

Every 4 minutes one car is stolen in Australia.

Every year 150,000 cars are stolen in Australia.

Is this bad,?? consider Asutralia has a population of only 22 million.

Why? because Asutralia has a policy of rehabilitation instead of incarceration, which means if you do something wrong the judge or social welfare worker apologises to you for having a bad upbringing and tries to blame some other reason on why you have committed a crime so you dont have to take any responsibility,,,so you can go out and do it all over again.

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Almost every week some kid in the US walks into a church or a school and starts blasting away people. That article is pure propoganda.

This has happened twice here in the UK in the last god knows how many years.

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