I can't remember who it was but they had said "I've been with girls but I do not connect with them like I connect with guys."

Well, if you can be with girls, like JohnnyO has said many times he can be but enjoys guys more, then wouldn't that make being gay a choice and not a characteristic you are born with? I mean, I can fool around with guys if I wanted to, but I choose not to.

Let the flood gates open...race all day yesterday, today this...hehe...

I have always believed it was a choice because I didn't believe we are born with a sexuality preference...

like an example of a little boy and a little girl who take a bath together...the little girl might say mommy whats that? He's got something I don't have. Do you think that little girl really new that she was a girl and he was boy for the real reasons that set them apart?

I think sexual preference is alot like that. We watch society and how it chooses and then figure out what it is that we would prefer...I remember a study that came out a few years ago that claimed they had found a gene that made them believe people were born "gay". A later study found that before the test cases were examined all the canidates told them tehy were gay or bisexual. Upon another study where they tested people who claimed to be straight they also found that same gene.

I really wish I could find the article that talked about this....it was really interesting to read.

the only way you are even close to remotely right is that they can choose to lie about it and feel gross the whole time, or they can go with what feels right - just as you could choose to sleep with guys for the rest of your life and you wouldn't like it, but you could choose it if that was what society was pressuring you to do.
but there is proof that there are several genetic differences in gay and lesbians - so how does that choice get made... when they one day decide, I'd love to do people of my same sex and get mocked and beaten up and ridiculed... yeah! and then their dna and body processes change.

good thinking dipshits.

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"Fear of things invisible is the natural seed of that which every one in himself calleth religion."
--Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan (1651)

I would be more inclined to believing it being in our DNA or gene if they were to prove that a segment of our genes wouldn't kick in till after a certain time in our lifes. I havent heard of any theories like that but their might be...

Another question then involving the line of genes and DNA

Why would you choose that lifestyle if all those things were in your favor?

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"Fear of things invisible is the natural seed of that which every one in himself calleth religion."
--Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan (1651)

Now i made this point in a post a few months ago. Since it pertains to this discussion I will repost what i wrote:

We all start off as female fetuses. the presence of a Y chromo triggers formation of testes( at 8 weeks)which produce testosterone in 2nd and 3rd month which then "masculinizes" the body. The vulva becomes the scrotum and the clitoris becomes the penis. Later on in gestation, testosterone "masculinizes" the brain, especially the hypothalamus(The medial pre-optic nucleus in the anterior hypothalamus doubles in size)
The Hypothalamus is heavily involved in sexual attraction, arousal, copulation, and orgasm, in animals and people

What is important about this is the fact that the presence of androgens(testosterone)play a large role in the process of masulinization described above; both the masculinization of the body and of the brain.

plus,
It's possible and easy to create "gay" animals by adding or blocking testosterone during critical periods of gestation.
Also,girls exposed to pre-natal testosterone are more likely to be tomboys, and to be gay.
Boys whose mothers experienced substantial stress in 2nd trimester are more likely to be gay(Stress releases endorphins, which block testosterone)
Finally,the Medial pre-optic nucleus of the hypothalamus in gay men is same size as in straight women(LeVay, 1991)which means that it was never masculinized.

Makes a lot of sense to me. There a many more studies that support this theory but Im not gonna go through them all here.

I believe that we are a product of our environment not of nature. Our environment shapes our personalities and our behavior. I dont think if we were transported to a vastly different environment our personalities would be the same. That being said isn't our personalities part of who we are? Our sexual preference is apart of who we are...

ok I had to delete the last part of what I said...which after reading it didn't make any sense to me...lol...

Well I ask " What about those who like young kids same sex or not?"

Those people might be born with a gene that causes them to do those things. So now should we being a free and fair nation allow child abuser to do thier crimes?

quote:

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Originally posted by ryker77:
OK so they say they are born gay. And they like the same sex.

Well I ask " What about those who like young kids same sex or not?"

Those people might be born with a gene that causes them to do those things. So now should we being a free and fair nation allow child abuser to do thier crimes?

.

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I know of no research that can preduce child abusers in a lab environment. I would think that something other than playing with pre-birth hormone levels is going on in the that case. I would venture to say some time of mental illness.

quote:

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Originally posted by PsychoSkitz:
john, that's like saying nobody would choose to be a Nascar driver because of the chance of crashing your car and dying is always there.

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quote:

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by TxCollegeguy:
He could have been shot during a robbery or grown into a wise old man but we will never know

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quote:

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by runner:
[B]would you choose to be straight{/B]

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Thats a physical difference not the choice of someone else to choose to turn me into a poodle

Those people decided to kill him...I just dont see how something he didn't expect to happen have anything to do with the post reguarding if people choose or are born being gay...The only thing I could really say in reguards to what I think you are saying

Had he known he was going to be made a target do you think he would have changed who he was?

"This society looks at gays as targets for abuse"

Thats a bit broad thing to say. I will admit that a majority of society is not in favor or support the gay, lesbian or transgendered community, but I wouldn't say society as a whole targets them for abuse.

I do agree with you that society is changing to be more acceptive of others outside the "norm"

Yes, You're getting it. It's just about as easy for me to be turned into straight as for you to be turned into a poodle.

Had he known he was going to be made a target do you think he would have changed who he was?
No, that's the point. He can't.
I know I am being discriminated against, and I can't prevent it. Damn frustrating.

I wouldn't say society as a whole targets them for abuse.

Let's see. I can't marry someone I love.
I can't visit them in the hospital on their death bed.
I can't make burial decisions for them.
I can't file a joint tax return.
I can't take communion in many churches.
In many states I can't adopt a child.
I can't tell my niece and newphew the truth of who I am or my brother will ban me from ever seeing them.
I can be fired at will by a gay hating boss.
As little as 20 years ago police in this country regularly raided bars and arrested gay people and published their names in newspapers.
As little as 10 years ago my gay men's chorus thru a choral concert and the police took down the licence plate numbers of all the cars in the parking lot.
Last year my gay church pastor requested his FBI file under the "Freedom of Information" act. It's 3 inches thick. (Damn subversive gay clergy!...)

I'm sorry that your brother wont allow you to share who you are with his kids...One day I'm sure they will notice themselves who you are, and when they become adults I hope you can talk with them...It sounds like your brother is missing out on sharing the joys and sadness of your life

Those are situations that the laws target, I wouldn't say that just because the laws target gays that society as a whole targets them. To me it just means society as a whole is not willing to stand up for making things right...Equality hasn't been fully reached for that community.

quote:

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Originally posted by ryker77:
OK so they say they are born gay. And they like the same sex.

Well I ask " What about those who like young kids same sex or not?"

Those people might be born with a gene that causes them to do those things. So now should we being a free and fair nation allow child abuser to do thier crimes?

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what gay men do isn't a crime - it is consentual sex. a peodophile on the other hand rapes children, this is a crime. if a gay man were to rape another man, then that is a crime. but for him to have sex with another consenting adult is not a crime.

I truly don't understand people that are weirded out by gay men. it isn't like they are going to attack you and fuck you in the ass or something, or that by talking to them or being in the same room will affect you in any way. they are just people like you and I, except they have different sexual opinions.

Hell, last night I couldn't sleep, so I went to games.com and logged on - my name is "backdoorboy" - I chose it b/c I thought it was funny. I notmally choose assface or pigfucker, but it wouldn't let me choose those.
I got more harassment by people on that board - I didn't want to chat, I wasn't hitting on anyone (I'm not even gay) - but people were attacking me left and right - all I wanted to do was play the game and I kept getting whispers of "are you gay" and I'd just reply "does it matter to play battleship?"

I hate ignorant fucks.

at least here people are willing to discuss it - no opinions will change here, but people will have a discourse.

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"Fear of things invisible is the natural seed of that which every one in himself calleth religion."
--Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan (1651)

Build a man a fire, he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for a lifetime.

I don't see how it's a big deal to allow that to get married or give them those benefits
I don't either, but 50 state legislatures plus the US congress disagree

I wouldn't say that just because the laws target gays that society as a whole targets them. To me it just means society as a whole is not willing to stand up for making things right.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.
People elect legislatures. Legislatures create laws.
Those laws target gays for descrimination.
Most Americans are perfectly happy with those laws.
Thus my point: "gays in this society are targeted for abuse".

You can call a legal partnership or a marriage or whatever it's decided to call it. Just because I don't approve of it doesn't mean I don't think the legal protection should be given. I think the legal protection is deserved and should be given to gays on this issue

based on your statement and your reasoning I guess it would be fair to say gays are targeted. I have never questioned a politician and how he stands on these issues since it hasn't been something for me to think about, and perhaps I should think about it more and question politicians. These issues are not something that I have faced nore have I personally heard how they affect anyone I personally know who is gay

To clarify I am not saying that their isn't a problem with the way the laws are written...I am saying some progress in the social acceptance of gays has been made with people not with laws. I am also saying their hasn't been enough progress made to this point involving laws. I'm saying that more changes are needed in getting laws corrected and helping people understand why they need to be changed. I also would say I'm one of the straight Americans who isn't pleased with the laws when brought to my attention and clarified on it's effects.

i think in some cases people have indeed chosen to be gay, but i thnk most of the time it pertains to the lesbians. not too many of my gay friends have gone back to being straight.

i know for a fact that i did not choose this lifestyle and to answer my buddy, runner's question, i would choose to be straight!!!! life is so much easier in the straight world as opposed to the gay world. we encounter possibly 2 prejudices, being gay and being ethnic. gays also encounter our own type of prejudices because there are many out there that willnot date an asian , black or hispanic. so we can encounter the hate frm the straight world and within our own.

sorry, straying! but i knew i liked boys/men when i was in 3rd grade. i had crushes on my male friends and on my 5th grade teacher. i did have a GF my sophmore year, but i knew it wasn't right, so i ended it. i now know why there is so much teen suicide amongst teens, cuz i was once there. so please do not tell us that we have chosen this lifestyle.

It's been scientifically proven over and over again that gay properties occur in every single species who were studied to purposely see if gay tendencies happen in the certain species itself.

This happened in insects, mammals, turtles, etc.

quote:

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Originally posted by runner:
just out of curiosity...john, johnnyo, may...would you choose to be straight if you truly did have the choice? for me it would be a no-brainer, yes.

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Yes, but only if I could still suck dick and get fucked in the ass by guys.

Fact is mosy gay folks you speak to will tell you they have been attracted to the same sex since they where very small. No one can say that at 3 years old you know what these feeling are or what there about.

Just as some of you loathe over female models at a young age some people loath over certain folks of the same sex. You can't walk in someone shoes as they can't walk in yours. This point can be argued back and forth and folks will still beleive as they beleive.

BY YOUR THEORY, BEING STRAIGHT IS A CHOICE AS WELL. AND OTHER THAN I BELIEVE BIG BUCK, MOST OF US STRAIGHT MEN CAN RELATE TO HOW GAYS MUST FEEL ABOUT WOMEN, SAME AS WE FEEL ABOUT GUYS!