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  check this BS out... an article titled "IS COLLEGE WORTH THE MONEY"

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madbomber31

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From:taking my yankee ass back to DETROIT CITY!!!
Registered: Dec 1999

posted February 26, 2001 05:58 PM

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Is College Worth the Money?

Is college worth it? Would you be better off financially if you just went to work right out of high school? According to census figures, college is definitely a great financial investment. In fact, an undergraduate degree is probably the most secure high-return investment an American can make.

Let's look at the numbers. Here are the average annual earnings for 1998, arranged by level of education:

Education Level Male Female
No High School Diploma $16,818 $8,861
High School Diploma $25,453 $13,407
Some College (one to three years) $30,536 $17,153
College Diploma $47,126 $26,401

As you can see, college grads earn about twice as much as people whose educations ended with a high school diploma. (You can also see that men earn much more than similarly qualified women, but that's a different story.) Of course, college costs money. Does the increased income make up for the cost of college? And what about the money you could have made if you started working after high school? Here are the numbers for men (the results for women are about the same):

Average in-state cost (tuition, room, and board) of a public college or university in 1996 (four years at $7,331 per year): $29,324
Four years of income lost while in college: $101,812
Total of college cost and income lost while in college: $131,136
Lifetime income with college degree: $2,120,670
Lifetime income, minus cost of college: $1,989,534
Lifetime income with just a high school diploma: $1,145,385
You can see that even after you and your parents pay for college, the $131,136 investment in college brings a return of $844,149. Put another way, the money you invest in college is likely to increase more than 600 percent. For women, the cost of tuition and forgone wages during college is $82,952; this investment brings a return of $501,779, which also calculates to about 600 percent. True, you might have to borrow some of the college cost, and the interest on the student loans adds to the cost of college. But many students get grants, scholarships, and other forms of free financial aid that more than make up for this. It's also true that going to school out of state or at a private school will cost you much more than we assumed here, but the payoff is so large over your lifetime that you'd still be way ahead.

Investing money in a college degree is also much safer than the stock market. As a college graduate, you're almost certain to earn much more than you would with only a high school diploma. For most people, the investment is a sure thing, unless you decide to become an artist or you choose some other low-wage career. And besides, in the real world, would your parents give you a hundred grand to invest in the stock market?

More Information

If you're trying to figure out the financial aid process, Four Essential Financial Aid Facts is a good place to start. Encarta's article on the Best Financial Aid Resources will help you track down financial aid on the Internet. Most people borrow at least a bit for college, and Encarta's Lessons on Loans will help you understand different types of loans. For a more detailed discussion of college tuition trends, see Colleges and Universities: Tuition. If you are interested in the stock market, see eHow's How to Get Started Investing in the Stock Market.

The income data in this article are from the Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1999. You can find similar data online from the Department of Education. To find out why men tend to earn so much more than women, see United States (Economy): Factors Affecting Labor Markets: Discrimination. The data for college costs are from Trends in Student Aid 1998 from The College Board.


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MattTheSkywalker

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From:Atlanta GA
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posted February 27, 2001 12:09 AM

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Bomber,

Just to throw you off:

My brother spent over $100K on his education to go to one of the top 10 universities in the country. He's got a job but it's nothing great. Had he taken that money and invested in Cisco and Qualcomm, he'd have $50million.

My point is that the stats are woefully skewed. Those that don't go to school do not take the money and invest it. They don'tcash the loan checks and buy stocks. They may be HS dropouts or just never finish for a variety of reasons.

here's another misleading statistic: 3 of the 5 wealthiest men in the country are college dropouts. Therefore college is a bar to super wealth.

MB it;s intersting that you post this. I;'m working on a book about why college is the leading cause of middle class stagination. It won;t be done anytime soon - I'm also planning to start a business and that is my priority, but it will be done.


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TxCollegeguy

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:
Registered: Jan 2000

posted February 27, 2001 12:30 AM

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on a personal note I would like to add

5 people I have known since childhood come from faimlies who own a business or company

2 of them are going to inherit the faimly business baring their own death. and the other 3 will probably inherit them or run them with other sibblings.

Only 1 of them goes to College fulltime, 2 others part time, and the other 2 work full time for the fb. Out of the 5 one them has already started and sold 2 small gas distribution companies with the help of his father and is worth something more then I can even guess. The funny thing is out of the 5 this one was a summer school grad from highschool...

My resolve, if by some chance I am able to make something of myself and own a business, and if I have children I'm going to do my best to teach them the ends and outs of business, as well as the ups and downs of college and let them decide on going or working


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Myo-genetic

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 90
From:Manila, Philippines
Registered: Feb 2001

posted February 27, 2001 12:50 AM

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Let's see...this is to give an idea of some people I know to compare:

No College

1) age 28 ~$225,000 (IT administrator)
2) 24 ~$40,000 (webmaster)
3) 19 ~$90,000 (high school drop-out-java programmer)
4) 25 ~$45,000 phone company line repair-man
5) 26 ~$68,000 electrician
6) 27 ~$70,000 sales

College

1) 23 $45,000 Chemical engineer
2) 25 $44,000 Programmer
3) 27 $32,000 Teacher
4) 28 $50,000 Naval Aviator

If I didn't go to college, I would easily be a millionaire by now. The only thing college did for me was teach me how to learn efficiently and retain information slightly better. Otherwise it was a waste of time and money.


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Engine9

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:Chicago Burbs
Registered: Nov 2000

posted February 27, 2001 01:20 AM

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Do any of you have any evidence to back up your claims that a college degree is not worth the money? (besides anecdotal) I am not being a smartass I am actually interested.

[This message has been edited by Engine9 (edited February 27, 2001).]


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Myo-genetic

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:Manila, Philippines
Registered: Feb 2001

posted February 27, 2001 01:48 AM

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I don't know if that question is directed toward me, but I'll just say that either way, I would have found a way to get the start-up capital I needed with or without college. If I would have not gone to college, lived at home while working at some factory job for $10 per hour (standard pay rate in my old city) I would have been making the equivalent of $22 dollars per hour living on my own post college. Since living at home saves so much money if you are smart about it, I would have had the same start-up capital I would have needed in the same amount of time even with a difference in pay like I described.

My friends who didn't go to college have lots of on-the-job experience at this point. Getting jobs is easy for them. My Java programmer friend has been doing that and C++ since he was 15. Companies bid for his talent.

My friend who is a college graduate computer programmer has a MUCH harder time since he has far less experience.

These are just from my friends who obviously don't represent an accurate sample of society. They are all very bright people who work hard and strive to be good at what they do. That type of personality will find a way to be successful with or without college.


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Jay Z

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:MI
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posted February 27, 2001 01:52 AM

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What you guys quote are few examples...Most of the people i see daily that get less than 20k a year have no college...those who make more than 40k have college. I used 'most', because there's a few smart ones that break the trend.


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Engine9

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:Chicago Burbs
Registered: Nov 2000

posted February 27, 2001 02:03 AM

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"My friends who didn't go to college have lots of on-the-job experience at this point"--Yes that is something that definetly sucks about college- you get a degree then can't find a job because you have no exprience in the real world.(Not all cases but some).


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Hindustan

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:India
Registered: Jun 2000

posted February 27, 2001 02:24 AM

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My whole opinion on this:

College insures that your salary doesn't CAP off to early. It also gives you a better chance at getting a managerial job.

Another alternative to College is getting certified by various institutions. You promise not to have you salary cap low if you didn't. But I do see specially in the CS field, that many people that didnt graduate and got certified, got less then people that did graduate and got certified.


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Myo-genetic

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:Manila, Philippines
Registered: Feb 2001

posted February 27, 2001 02:52 AM

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But with CS, you have to take into consideration the experience factor like I said above. The vast majority of companies want a certification AND 4+ years of experience. They even state in the job listings that a college degree is not necessary.

CS is truly a talent and experience driven market. If you are talented and are a producer and innovator, you will be rewarded. Those who are marginal programmers, degree or no degree are going to fall by the wayside.


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MattTheSkywalker

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Posts: 2748
From:Atlanta GA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted February 27, 2001 07:36 AM

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Engine,

My repsonse to you would be threefold:

1. Consider the cost of college. Usually close to $100K for top schools. If one went to work out of high school, then when they were 23, could borrow that sum of money and start their own business, (having worked for a while) a lot of people would do better. Sure, many would fail, but many go to college and fail too.

2. The technology revolution has skewed the value of a college degree.

3. College can be responsible for sapping teh dreams of many many kids. A friend of mine is working as a claims analyst at State Farm. (That's entry level). He makes no money and hates his job. I asked him as he was bitching about it, "Did you dream about being an insurance agent when you were a little kid?"

Of course he did not. Too often, kids go away to school expecting something, and it does not deliver. Usually the first month of school, you're drinking 5-6 days a week (almost everyone does when they get there), and pretty soon you settle into the culture of partying 4 or 5 nights a week. This goes on for three and a half years, and then you find yourself saying, "Oh shit.....this is almost over...I need a job". At no point do you learn to express individuality, or think critically.

College: America's truest path to mediocrity.


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runner

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 364
From:houston, tx
Registered: Apr 2000

posted February 27, 2001 08:00 AM

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on the one hand, the statistics don't lie...but on the other hand one must examine them critically.

sure, people with more education earn more money...but in general and on average, people with more education have more intelligence and more drive. a case could be made that they'd have succeeded financially either way...


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MattTheSkywalker

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From:Atlanta GA
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posted February 27, 2001 08:14 AM

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That's pretty much it runner.

Stats are worth a look, but also worth an examination. 3 of the 5 wealthiest men in America are not college grads. By that statistic, seems like college is a terrible idea. The explanation would point somewhere else. Likewise with MadBomber's stats.


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Jay2

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:
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posted February 27, 2001 12:53 PM

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This whole argument misses the whole point. The point of college is *not* to earn more money later. Unfortunately, that is why people attend college now, and the schools are full of materialistic, intellectually lazy kids.


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Jay2

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:
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posted February 27, 2001 01:01 PM

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This whole argument misses the whole point. The point of college is *not* to earn more money later. Unfortunately, that is why people attend college now, and the schools are full of materialistic, intellectually lazy kids.


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Engine9

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 72
From:Chicago Burbs
Registered: Nov 2000

posted February 27, 2001 01:02 PM

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Matt, I agree with those points. Except for the thinking critically part- i have taken research classes where the main goal was to try and get people to think like that- did it work? not for all, but for some. Ultimately I think it is up to the individual to learn how to do this. Of course it can be also accomplished without college.


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