What further education or careers would you suggest to a newbie graduate?

I will be graduating next spring and I'm still trying to determine what to do. Please share with me your opinions and thoughts.

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"There is no shame in losing...Only winning without honor."

the longer you are in school is the shorter you are seeing how business really works.
Nothing will close off your vision faster than business school.

Will you really be the shit with an MBA and $140K a year? Yeah it sounds nice because you're in school (or recent grad) but it really isn't shit.

People usually make money (real money, not "6 figure feel good pay") by finding an area that is chaotic and can be standardized. In other words, they design and implement a business that meets a need.

Business school may teach you how to excel within the current model, but it will never teach you how to improve it. That's how you make the big bucks.

Or you could collect $100-200K a year, with checks signed by someone like me.

You bet I want to hear more.
You have my undivided attention.

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"There is no shame in losing...Only winning without honor."

I had a bit of an epiphany one night. It was spawned by a simple question -- what had I learned? The answer was nothing. Not a damn thing. To top it off, I had a 4.0 and was taking 300 level courses at this time.

Over the next 24 hours, I turned my back on my mentor and changed my major to math.

Trying to complete a math degree in two years was problematic, but at least I learned something. Business seemed like nothing more then delineated common sense.

If you are simply looking to get by and get a degree, study business, but if you actually want to learn something, chose a different direction.

I don't really have too big a problem with undergrad business degrees. They at least help you understand the concepts of businesses, and although it is bullshit, they are usually needed to get certain business jobs. So ride it out, learn some fundamentals....etc.

Once you are working, keep your eye open for things your company does badly. Even well run companies can improve. If your company is doing something poorly, then chances are that other companies are also.

People often think (especially college students...no offense) that employees at many companies are talented, excellent workers that get so much done and solve problems, etc. Part of the reason for that misconception is because you (the student) are still concerned about what job you will get, meanhwhile, there are people out there who have jobs...so you (the general you, not you, Kwai) conclude that these people are good employees because they got the job.

Reality is, Kwai, most people are absolutely terrible employees, who shirk responsibility, whine to their boss, and really bring little value to a company. Most people are just not that intelligent and not that capable. It's sad, but it's true. The reality is that most people don't succeed financially. Sorry. It's true. The country is filled with mediocre people.

OK - so what does this mean to you? These mediocre people are doing the work for most of America's corporations. These mediocre people are often the ones who rush out to pursue advanced business education to get a jump in the rat race that their own ability doesn;t give them. (No offense to the MBAs on the board. You know I hate your degree).

Given the abundance of lousy employees out there, there is a lot that a company (many companies) are doing really badly and cost ineffectively. You can make real money providing this service to them at a savings. Sounds too easy.....

A friend of mine has earned considerable wealth (tens of millions in assets Kwai...I don't ask him but it could be 100million) by identifying a major problem in an industry, and starting a business to do that part of the job more effeectively. I don't want to say too much because of trade secrets, but I will say that every one on this board uses the industry that he identified as problematic. Every one of us.

The question is, will YOU have the vision to see where the gap are, and develop business models to close them? Find the problem and standardize it.

if you have more questions I can get more specific with some things. I just want to let you digest that.

MBA = Admitting mediocrity and seeking outside assistance to excel, since you can't do it yourself.

When I started in school I was a business administration major. But, the classes were boring and I felt like I wasn't even learning anything useful.
I switched to computer science and realized those classes are even worse.
Then I declared political science and I love it. I have no idea if I will ever make even $100,000 a year but at least I feel like I learned useful information.
I agree with Matt that the best way to make the money is to have your own business. Think of something people want or need but don't have yet and do it yourself. That's what I plan on doing. As long as you have a boss, you have someone who doesn't want to advance past a certain point.

quote:

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Originally posted by MattTheSkywalker:

MBA = Admitting mediocrity and seeking outside assistance to excel, since you can't do it yourself.

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- If you want 1 year of prosperity, grow grain. If you want 10 years of prosperity, grow trees. If you want 100 years of prosperity, grow people. -

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Yes, I have a degree in Mathematics. I'm glad I have the Math knowledge, but I wish I hadn't wasted four years.

The concept of "being your own boss" is often overstated. If you start your own business, you will likely have to raise money from a venture capital type firm, and they will take part of your company as well as demand a seat on your board. So you will in many ways be beholden to them.

Shags,

I see you haven't dropped out of biz school yet. :-)

I perfer to say I'm utilizing all the tools available to me to gain knowlege

Being a business owner and working in another I will tell you I lean on my learned knowledge. I would not be were I am to day without it. Not that I'm finished with school. I don't think I will ever be finished with school.

Just remember mistakes cost money and when its yours it makes it all the more important.

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- If you want 1 year of prosperity, grow grain. If you want 10 years of prosperity, grow trees. If you want 100 years of prosperity, grow people. -

For a good time click here: Search and Profiles (300Kleens Board)
Another fine board: Anabolic Fitness

snip

Or you could collect $100-200K a year, with checks signed by someone like me.>>>>

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Sounds like the same thing to me - both roads lead to the same outcome.

Regardless, "it really isn't shit" That's true.

To the original poster - Get the MBA from a top 20 - if nothing else, it's a great two years of ego pumping, brain flexing, and networking. The system can still work - you just have to know how navigate it beyond the normal Top 20 MBA starter pay.

When was the last time you made a contract?
What were the legal aspects you had to deal with?
What were the binding factors?
How could you legally break it?

Unless you want to have an attorney on staff this is important.
So many business fail because people just think f'it anyone can do.

Just think of all the employment tax law.
How about FMLA or ADA.
What about worked comp - one case could ruin a little company.

What about sales reps. and compensations.

Fair labor relations

Shit there are laws on gifts awards and prizes.

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- If you want 1 year of prosperity, grow grain. If you want 10 years of prosperity, grow trees. If you want 100 years of prosperity, grow people. -

For a good time click here: Search and Profiles (300Kleens Board)
Another fine board: Anabolic Fitness

I'll give business is changing and developing in ways no one ever thought possible but you gotta have a foundation.

I was just talking to a Doctor - The fact came out that his first three private practices failed. " They taught me to be a Great Doctor but didn't teach me shit about running a business ".

Here's another all the dot.com's. Millions of dollars invested into business with people with degrees. What kinda I don't know but alot of money was lost and somewhere you know they weren't doing something right.

Either I misread you or you misread me. I said that an MBA will get you $100-200K a year, but a visionary like myself will be signing the checks. :-) The implication is that the visionary will get far more than that.

Cleaner and others: I agree totally that business education never stops. Life is an education that never stops. But the best education is often learning by doing and experience. You guys know that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cleaner:
Here's another all the dot.com's. Millions of dollars invested into business with people with degrees. What kinda I don't know but alot of money was lost and somewhere you know they weren't doing something right.

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Cleaner,

The dot com failures can be traced directly to the venture capital community. These people were too ignorant to find out exactly what the Internet was, and wasn't. A few people, like AOL and Yahoo, made huge amounts of money, while the venture capitalists stayed away.

Then, when these VCs saw this, they threw money at anything ending in ".com". Many of these ventures should have never been funded.

Not surprisingly, most of today's VCs are top 20 biz school MBA grads. A biz school education is teh surest way to close off vision.

They may make a million a year, but in time they will all have that night where they wake up screaming and realize they are a fraud.

VC = Vicariously Capable.

quote:

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Originally posted by MattTheSkywalker:
Gigante,

Either I misread you or you misread me. I said that an MBA will get you $100-200K a year, but a visionary like myself will be signing the checks. :-) The implication is that the visionary will get far more than that.

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Matt -
How many pay checks do you write a month?

I would call the Dot.coms Visionarys - I don't know the education back ground of each but they blew it in every aspect of business man 101.

I'll email you. We're not connecting here. I didn't see anything about the dotcoms lacking vision. It was the VCs.

Also, I'd like to hear about ways that you can raise funds without losing some control of your organization.

Either I misread you or you misread me. I said that an MBA will get you $100-200K a year, but a visionary like myself will be signing the checks. :-) The implication is that the visionary will get far more than that.

Cleaner and others: I agree totally that business education never stops. Life is an education that never stops. But the best education is often learning by doing and experience. You guys know that.

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I agree that a person with vision can surely outperform another individual with just the basic skill sets. The point I'm trying to make is that an MBA - not just a regular MBA from a sub-par university - can provide the advanced criteria to analyze and dissect advanced business models to a degree that the "average" person would simply struggle with

I keep referring to a top 20 MBA program because the connections made open doors. To take advantage of these ops requires "vision" in a minute way�

My story: UT Grad School � Now a private consultant for a wireless mfg. My vision would probably be considered by most as being very basic for certain applications. I simply analyzed and introduced an advanced JIT Program into the company's mfg. model. The results were, as expected by anyone that has a microscopic understanding of mfg., OUTSTANDING. The savings in reduced inventory saves $millions. The commission to manage the project made by my start-up� I think you have an idea. Now the outcome has made my little company a hot commodity in the wireless arena. Did the MBA help in this � I think so. My vision worked.

My simple point is that the MBA gave me the advanced know-how to grasp these concepts. In all reality, maybe it just gave me the advanced confidence needed to project my simplistic vision. Regardless, the door would have never been opened for me to project this vision if I was lacking the hottest credentials. The MBA is priceless when it applies to networking. You have got to agree that if you want to excel, or even exploit the Fortune 100, 500, 1000 - - an MBA is a great asset.

I didn't say it DOESN'T hold weight. It certainly does. I argue it holds too much.

As to the tech world: Netscape, Apple, IBM -three visions of how a company should not be run. Netscape had Microsoft by the balls, and lost their advantage. IBM was the dominant corporation in the US for years, and they fell apaprt early 1990s. Apple just had no idea of business after Jobs left, adn John Sculley ruined them.

These guys were all MBAs, and watched the tech revolution kill their companies. Microsoft, oracle, Dell...all have fluorished, with non-MBA founders. wait a sec Tyler...we already had this conversation...when May1010 got all huffy.

It's a ticket puncher's degree...no matter how you slice it.

Gigante,

it is certainly an asset. My big claim is now and always has been that MBA is, as I said to Tyler, often a ticket-puncher degree. I'm glad you had an idea and made it successful....and if the MBA helped, then good for you. I mean it. I just dont really see it as necessary and maintain that even working for a failing corporation is a better education IF YOU PAY ATENTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING.

I wish you continued success. You too Tyler.