Why should the people who make up the middle class, or what's left of it, only get a 3% tax cut!

That's the structure of the Bush tax cut.

And now... I go lift Iron. Have a great day!

I get really pissed when they take upwards of 35% of my income each week. That drops me from a decent salary to living paycheck to paycheck again.

The rich get a another 6.6% that sucks. And I thought that everyone was supposed to get a tax break. Or is that only if you procreate at an enormouse rate?

I don't think we are likely to see any real tax break and within four years I will probably be paying 40-45 percent of my income in taxes and without even socialist/canadian health care.

You have got to be kidding me!?

Wealth is inheritable, meaning it is passed from generation to generation regardless of intellect, talent, or need. The overwhelming majority of those considered wealthy in this country live off of the labor of generations before them, while also cutting off virtually all access to wealth, power, and prestige for the people who really deserve or need it.
The wealthy don't get screwed, they screw us.
They control the keys that open all of the doors in this country.
Just go to the U.S. census website and you will see just how bad inequality is in this country. The wealthy don't get taxed nearly enough!!!!!

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"There is no shame in losing...Only winning without honor."

The inheritance tax all but ensures that the wealthy who live there estate to their heirs is taken away by the gov't. Does that money get in your pocket nope, it makes it to those who take it period.

Everyone has the opportunity to become wealthy if they want to. That is the key they must want it bad enough.

Redistribution of wealth is not a solution to economic status it only serves to further separate and discourage people from becoming successful.

The 297K crowd deserves every nickel of that 6.6%. That will leave them at a still tyrannical 33%. In other words, each year, they will start earning money for themselves on May 1st.

Flat tax would be the only fair tax solution. this "vertical equity" shit is a dinosaur that needs to die.

You can say in one breath that everyone is able to become wealthy if they work hard enough, yet you can't stand the idea of having something that you didn't even earn taken away. I call bullshit.

Your point of view is tainted because of where you stand on the food chain. You are incapable of knowing the true depths and truths of social stratification in this country because you are happy with where you sit.
There are people with 10 houses, 20 cars, and infinite dispensable cash in this country and then there are those who struggle to make rent and buy food.
Both of these extremes should not exist.

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"There is no shame in losing...Only winning without honor."

That's just my 2 cents...

I lived at the bottom of the food chain, and you know what I didn't like living on less than 10k a year, so I did something about it. And because I did I am now being punished for it. I call bullshit.

Matt is right, it is a dinasaur that needs to die.

I hope you expect more from your children, than that.

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"There is no shame in losing...Only winning without honor."

It's a lose lose situation for everyone...Everyone except Uncle Sam anyway

It;s starting to sound like "sour grapes" from you.

YOU don't like people who inherit fantastic wealth. So what? Some will have more, some will have less, be it strength, wealth, intelligence, etc.

Sure, it would be nice to be part of the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia, but I'm not. So I do what I can in the system I am in.

It's not the government's place to redistribute wealth. People succeed to different levels, and then what they do with it is their prerogative, whether give most of it away (as Bill Gates plans) or leave it to their kids..

The merits of leaving your child a billion dollars can be debated. But not your right to do so.

Badkins,

Pure unchecked capitalism BY DEFINITION becomes a form of socialism. I don't have time to explain it now - I'll post it soon. Ignoring that fact is why Libertarians never really get elected: they have no true vision to break the entrenched bullshit.

When the wealthy pay taxes, how does this money come back to them? National defense is the only return I can think of right now, and I seriously doubt that it costs so many trillions of dollars over the course of a few years to keep our military superior to those of our enemies.

I, personally, have not yet accumulated a vast fortunate, but I know that I will. Why? Because I'm going to work for it instead of sitting around whining about how it's not fair that people are rich and I am poor. If you don't like something about your life, FIX IT. Those who live with it and whine are nothing but sheep.

No offense if this applies to any of you.

-Warik

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I have a very torn thought process about all of this. On one hand I am very pro-capitalist business major, and on the other hand I am a sociology minor that has learned to understand the trends, stats, and truths of social inequality.
Many of us (including me) can easily say with a smile on our faces that hard work is the end all be all of success, but that is simply not true at all.
I am, as many of you are, experiencing what is known as positive inter-vertical mobility; meaning that I am being primed to surpass my father and mother economically. Although this is going to be relatively easy for me, many people don't understand that it is not this simple for everyone. The "protestant ethic" doesn't exactly have the same effect in rundown ghetto's and trailer parks. When you are born into an utterly helpless situation as many minorities or the poor in general usually are, you don't tend to have that "I can do anything" attitude. I didn't understand this at first, but I was obviously biased at first also. What I'm trying to say, is that no matter how much we keep preaching hard work and perserverence it won't make a difference. I'm not saying that socialism is the key because honestly, I think I have alot of potential to be a very high income earner in my time and I would like to enjoy that. At the same time, I understand how bad and unjust the economic equality is in this country and how some of the more fortunate choose to ignore it or candy coat it with some "I did it, so can you" bullshit story that usually comes from the second, third, or fourth generation rich anyway.
I dig capitalism just like you Matt, but lots of people are getting fucked and that's a fact whether we choose to believe it or not.

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"There is no shame in losing...Only winning without honor."

I'm not a "100% capitalism all the way" guy. wealthy nations should help their poorest citizens, and truth be told, it is not really welfare that bogs the system down at all.

I know that we all don't get the same chance. those born poor really have almost no shot to excel. Those born to wealth really can't fail.

But wholesale wealth redistribution is not the answer.

God love America!

My Argument for today. If you want to stimulate the economy then the middle class is the group that deserves the deepest tax cut because they will spend probably 95% of those dollars. The Upper crust getting a tax cut will only enhance their bond portfolios, a few 100,000 new cars and a yacht or two.

Big woop in terms of the US economy.

10% sounds reasonable to me. It's not a platform one could actually run on.....because the government would actually TRULY have to get smaller (no empty promises) and not a single government employee would vote for you.

That's a few million votes.

quote:

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Originally posted by MattTheSkywalker:
those born poor really have almost no shot to excel.

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Tell that to my father whose life in the United States (by himself) began working minimum wage at Burger King with not a dime to his name.

The only people with less of a shot at success than others are those who are too lazy to strive for success.

-Warik

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To be handed 20 million for being born into a wealthy family is the exact same concept. A person like that has no motivation to suceed either. It's funny how no one seems to be up in arms about that.

If you want to look the other way, that is your perogative, but social inequality is a fact, not a myth.

I am not proposing socialist politics by any means, but I am preaching awareness and sympathy. If your super rich, you really have no right to complain in this world.
So taxes made it so you didn't get to buy a new car this month? Big fucking deal! Try not having the cash to eat food or have a roof over your head. The rich need to count their blessings and realize that they don't have it that bad.

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"There is no shame in losing...Only winning without honor."

There are way too many success stories from people with little education, from the wrong side of the tracks, with disabilities, etc..... who made good with their lives, be it money or good will or whatever.

Bottom line is I hate paying Uncle Sam all that money and being self-employed I really get fucked. Although I get to write off more than half of my income it makes me look like shit to the banks. But I have been on both sides of the tracks and having beats the fuck out of not having. And that saying of "money is the root of all evil" that came from people without money.

So if you find yourself wallowing in self pity about not having money and looking at all the money being made by the "pricks" that have to pay over 33% in taxes.....look in the mirror and ask yourself if you want to be there or not. I liken it to the working out thing. It is easier to be a fat out of shape fuck,,,,, yet we decide not to be. Decide what you want and go for it and stop fucking complaining.

We cannot have a utopian society where everyone is equally wealthy. Society would fail. Being poor and born in a ghetto does not hold you back. It is the attitudes taught you by your parents and friends that hold you back, if you let them.

Maybe lazy is not the right word, but lack of motivation would certainly describe a large portion of those who do not succeed.

It's bullshit to say your trying to boost the economy with a tax cut when the majority of that cut goes to the 1% of Americans who make over $295,000 a year. Yeah it's only 1% out of 127,000,000 workers in this country. That is very ineffective in terms of the overall economy for anyone looking to spark any real growth via a tax cut.

You want to spark growth then give the lions share of the cut, that 6+ % decrease to those in the 28 - 75 K range. That will spark real spending and growth.

warik-

around 50 billion is distribted to the poor via social welfare
corporate welfare comes to around 170 billion a year (this was in 1996, according to research by michael moore)