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  Making fina 150mg instead of 75mg/ml

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Author Topic:   Making fina 150mg instead of 75mg/ml
conan69

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posted December 28, 2000 07:40 AM

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In theory it should work

instead of using all the oil which is like 20cc (approx)

if one used only half of that
then the final product should be
10cc of 150mg/ml

had anyone tried this???

------------------
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KODIAK99

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posted December 28, 2000 08:08 AM

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In theory it should work, we need a chemist for this one as the saturation point fo the oil that you add the fina too is really whats at question. . .if it is too high a concentration you may end up making fina porridge. . .don't know but interested in finding out if it would work.

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conan69

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posted December 28, 2000 08:10 AM

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yes the saturation point is exactly what i was curious about


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ARM E MAN

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posted December 28, 2000 11:28 AM

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150MG/ML is not that concentrated. It has to work,i mean how many other oils have a 200-250 mg/ml ratio...i think it will work....
let us know how it goes...

------------------
RANGERS LEAD THE WAY


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The Shadow

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posted December 28, 2000 11:31 AM

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I have used A's kit and made 150 mg/cc. Than being said, I don't know if this would be possible with other kits. A uses a lot of BA to increase solubility. Had no problems with the 150 mg solution.


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conan69

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posted December 28, 2000 12:27 PM

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Thanks Shadow that is the info i was looking for

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Andy13

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posted December 28, 2000 02:34 PM

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The Shadow: I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you probably only have around 75mg/ml. 150mg of TA will not dissolve in 1ml of oil. The reason is because of it's ester length. Shorter esters are not as lipid soluble as long chain esters. This is precisely why T-enanthate can be 200mg/ml but you really only see T-prop at 50 (sometimes 100)mg/ml. Keep in mind that an acetate ester is even shorter than a prop ester.

So what happened to the TA that is not dissolved in your oil??? Well, you probably (gasp) filtered it out and discarded it.

That, my friend, is steroid abuse! We all have to learn once, though.

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy13 (edited December 28, 2000).]


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conan69

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posted December 28, 2000 02:36 PM

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actually i just got confirmation from the man himself that you can make it 150mg/ml even 200mg/ml

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Andy13

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posted December 28, 2000 02:44 PM

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How would "the man" know? How would he know that he didnt filter out the tren and throw it away? Animal is not a chemist; I am. And there is no way of knowing if you really have 150mg/ml without a lab assay. I'm telling you it cannot be done.

Andy


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KINGKONG69

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posted December 28, 2000 02:56 PM

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i heard also from MR.H or A that you could go as high as 200mg/ml.


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panerai

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posted December 28, 2000 03:02 PM

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I don't know for a fact,because I didn't tested it in a lab,but person who I'm getting Tren from has on his list 150mg/ml.And ....well, you know,can't break the rules.


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KODIAK99

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posted December 28, 2000 03:35 PM

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Andy wouldn't it be possible to make a higher concentratin fina than 75mgs/ml with an oil base that can hold a higher concentration of fina than 150mgs/ml without saturation, and if so what oils could be used?
My other question is if you keep the fina heated and some how got 150 or 200mgs/ml of oil upon cooling do you suggest that it would recrystalize? I appreciate your help, I am going to be making fina as soon as my kits arrive and making a higher concentration than 75mgs/ml was something I was thinking about. . .I agree without assay it is really just a guess what I'm ending up with. Thanks for you help.

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conan69

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posted December 28, 2000 03:38 PM

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I was told that the 150mg was lab tested and it was fine, but you are a chemist, further imput is very appreciated

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The Shadow

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posted December 28, 2000 08:03 PM

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Andy - how about a glass of Shut The Fuck Up??? I AM an organic chemist and have forgotten more about chemisry than you will ever know. Keep your "ideas" to yourself nimrod. Obviously you don't know shit about solubility or the ways to increase it. And that my friend Is true...

Conan - thanks for the back up on this one.


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bgriff

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posted December 28, 2000 08:50 PM

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Damn its getting hot in here!!!!


Why not ues twich the amount of pellets instead of only 10cc of oil!!

Then you have 20cc of 150mg/ml fina

HELL YAH!!!!!!!1

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Andy13

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posted December 28, 2000 08:59 PM

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Kodiak: If you heated the oil, it would increase solubility. But as soon as it cooled it would return to it's normal solubility. One thing to keep in mind is that it's NOT 150mg dissolved in 1ml... It's actually less than that. If you added 150mg to 1 ml of oil you will actually get more than 1 ml since solid has been added (makes sence, right?) When you make a preparation, the correct way is to add the solid then dilute to the amount of ml you want.
This would mean that your solid is dissolved in less than 1ml.
Andy


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Unity66

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posted December 28, 2000 09:21 PM

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bgriff........LMAO!

hell ya............ive made 150mg/mll tren with no probs.

Unity66


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Holy souldier

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posted December 28, 2000 09:22 PM

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get the component -TH and add the whole thing.it has 4000 mg of tren.but i would listen to animal.i agree the theory is good.


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The Shadow

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posted December 28, 2000 09:43 PM

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Thank you Andy. That comment about adding solute and then the dilutent made my point for me...


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Primo_man

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posted December 28, 2000 09:52 PM

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Can you dissolve twice the amount of pellets in the solute (belzyl alcohol) provided to make a solution that has a higher concentration of TA with the same amount of oil or will you need to get more solvent?? I'd rather use all of the oil and make one big batch. Suggestions???


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The Shadow

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posted December 28, 2000 09:55 PM

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As lomg as you keep the ratio of 150 mg per cc of oil, then you can make as much as you want at one time.


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Andy13

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posted December 28, 2000 09:59 PM

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For those who have made the phantom 150mgTA/ml:

How do you know it actually IS infact 150mg/ml? How do you know you didnt filter out the un-dissolved TA and throw it away?

And, once again, it's not a 150mg (or whatever) to 1ml oil ratio. Read the above post by me. You add the solid first THEN dilute accordingly. You DO NOT add 50ml of oil to a solid if you want it to be x grams/ml. That would make it more than 50ml.

and BTW , solute=solid
solvent=liquid

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy13 (edited December 28, 2000).]


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3ccEOD

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posted December 29, 2000 12:16 AM

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but 76mg/ml is the max due to the molecular weight of trenbolone acetate. All you need to do is reference the Merck Index which also lists the solvent that T/A is most soluble in (methanol) again due to its molecular weight.


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The Shadow

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posted December 29, 2000 08:32 AM

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Andy - you are wrong. If you take 10ml of water and add 5 grams of rock to it, you are stating that you will now have more than 10 ml of water. Not true. While the rock will DISPLACE some water, the total amount of water is still 10ml.

3CCEod - you are correct about what the Merck says about the compound. The Merck does not take into account the various compounds which drastically increase(up to 3x)solubility such as BA.


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3ccEOD

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posted December 29, 2000 11:42 AM

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I do not understand how you increase the solubility of something.....what are you referring to (BA)?


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The Shadow

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posted December 29, 2000 11:51 AM

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3ccEOD - Like the name.

Solubility can be increased in many ways: Temp. change, change in pH, or by the addition of other compounds. BA = Benzyl Alcohol. Adding this to the oil drastically increases the solubility of the Tren in the oil base.


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Andy13

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posted December 29, 2000 11:54 AM

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Shadow: I didnt say you would have more than say, 50ml of oil if you add the powder to that.. You obvioulsly still have 50ml of oil. However, the SOLUTION newly made will be more then 50ml due to the added solute.

Andy


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3ccEOD

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posted December 29, 2000 12:03 PM

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I add 3% of the total mixture(benzyl alcohol)I was under the impression that this was for bacteria and fungus I had no idea it was going to increase the solubility of the oil. Not to change the subject but are some oils more soluble with respect to T/A. I always used expeller pressed sunflower is there something better?


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GymRatSD

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posted December 29, 2000 12:37 PM

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Trenbolone Acetate would have a low solubility in an oil base alone due to the short ester attached (actate). So, this is where Andy13 is correct.

BUT, adding benzyl alcohol to the solution increases the solubility of just about any organic, non-polar compound in an oil solution. With this addition, you can easily reach a 150 mg/ml tren solution -- and the extra will not be filtered out since it will all be in solution. So The Shadow is correct here. The BA is NOT for fungal/bacterial purposes. If the oil is tainted, the BA will do nothing. That's why you sterile-filter the solution.

The amount of tren added to the oil is relatively minimal. Yes, you'll end up with more than the 20 cc you started with, but then increase is relative insignificant for our purposes. If you're injecting 150 mg or 145 mg, is there really that much of a difference?


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3ccEOD

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posted December 29, 2000 12:41 PM

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Thanks GYMRATSD.But the BA should increase the shelf life no?


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GymRatSD

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posted December 29, 2000 12:43 PM

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If the solution is sterile, then it will have a very long shelf-life. The BA will have nothing to do with this. Not all alcohol is "alcohol" like you see in the doctors office -- they all do not kill germs and bacteria.


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The Shadow

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posted December 29, 2000 01:30 PM

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GymRatSD - thanks for the input bro...


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Andy13

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posted December 29, 2000 01:32 PM

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Yes. BA is anti-microbial

Isopropyl alcohol, ethanol, benzyl alcohol are ALL anti-microbial. Since the benzyl alcohol is 'larger' than isopropyl alcohol, it may not be as good at penetrating bacterial cell membranes however it is indeed considered to be anti-microbial.


Andy


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GymRatSD

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posted December 29, 2000 01:54 PM

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Benzyl alcohol's primary use is in pharmaceutical applications to increase the solubility of organic solutions. When used in this manner, it does nothing to contribute to the sterility of a product and will not make it "clean".

Also, you will not find BA in off-the-shelf applications for use as the active ingredient "to kills germs and bacteria."


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Andy13

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posted December 29, 2000 02:13 PM

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It may not be used as an anti-microbial since it probably isnt as good as isopropyl alcohol. But i have personally taken a microbiology class and can tell you that if you add BA to a petri dish, it will burn a hole in that bacterial colonie wherever you put it.

Andy


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Primo_man

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posted December 29, 2000 02:18 PM

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So what is the final verdict? I would definately like to make a fina solution of 150mg/ml but I don't want to piss my money away if it can't be done. Someone please put an end to this!!! By the way could you dissolve 2x's as much fina in the BA provided in a double kit to produce approx. 50ml of 150mg/ml solution, or would you have to get more BA to dissolve the extra fina in?? Thanks Bros!!!


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GymRatSD

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posted December 29, 2000 02:21 PM

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quote:
Originally posted by Andy13:
It may not be used as an anti-microbial since it probably isnt as good as isopropyl alcohol. But i have personally taken a microbiology class and can tell you that if you add BA to a petri dish, it will burn a hole in that bacterial colonie wherever you put it.

Andy


So will a Diet Coke, but we don't use that to sterilize or kill germs. At least I don't.


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conan69

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posted December 29, 2000 02:32 PM

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Yes Primo_Man you can make 150mg/ml but i would not double the fina into the Alcohol
it might not break down all teh pellets

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Andy13

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posted December 29, 2000 02:36 PM

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Here is what we DO NOT know.

First, if infact you can dissolve 150mg of TA in 1ml of BA/oil, how would you know you did? Does anyone have lab reports?

Why not make it 75mg/ml and just double the volume size of the injections. Is that REALLY a big inconvienince to do?

Andy


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bgriff

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posted December 29, 2000 03:32 PM

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GymRatSD You are the shit!!! One smart cookie!! I enjoy chatting with you bro!!

Thanx for your input!!

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"TIME TO GROW!!!!!"


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T Bone

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posted December 30, 2000 02:06 AM

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quote:
Originally posted by conan69:
I was told that the 150mg was lab tested and it was fine, but you are a chemist, further imput is very appreciated


Andy, did you see this?

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Jeff_rys

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posted December 30, 2000 04:38 AM

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Andy - you are wrong. If you take 10ml of water and add 5 grams of rock to it, you are stating that you will now have more than 10 ml of water. Not true. While the rock will DISPLACE some water, the total amount of water is still 10ml.

Yes, but if we are talking of 150 mgr/cc, this means you got less then 1 cc of oil because your have the 150 mgr of roid in it.
In your case we have 1cc + 150 mgr of roid wich is more then 1 cc.
I think this was what Andy was saying.

For the chemical thing, count me out.

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Jeff

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conan69

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posted December 30, 2000 08:10 AM

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ANDY the big deal is because some of us take large volumes of test and other things
cutting down on the oil is a big help

you would know what i mean if you have done one of my cycles

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Primo_man

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posted December 30, 2000 11:25 AM

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So how should you go about doing this, first you could simply use half the oil provided, (something I would rather not do), or second you could dissolve 2X's as much fina in the solute provided, (preferred option so you don't have to worry about the measurement of the oil you are disgarding). The qestion then becomes, is the amount of benzyl alcohol provided enough to dissolve 2X's as much fina or do you need to request an extra bottle of benzyl alcohol. What do you bro's think???


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conan69

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posted December 30, 2000 12:44 PM

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you would have to use half the oil
cause i dont believe there is enough oil to disolve 2 lots

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Mr H

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posted December 30, 2000 03:12 PM

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From the man himself:
-------------------------
Higher MG/ML

If you want 100mg/ml and you have 2000mg of hormone, you need 20ml
(2000mg/100mg/ml is 20) total solution. You must use all of bottle 1
which is 5ml in a 2gF kit. You must use 5ml of bottle 1 solution for
every 2000mg of hormone you have. 2000mg of hormone takes up
2ml so now you have 7ml. 20ml total needed - 7ml used means you need
13ml from bottle 2. Bottle 2 had 21 ml so 21ml - 13ml means you take
out 8ml from bottle #2.

If you want 100mg/ml and you have 4000mg of hormone, you need 40ml
(2000mg/100mg/ml is 40ml) total solution. You must use all of bottle 1
which is 10ml in a 4gF kit. 4000mg of hormone takes up 4ml so now you
have 14ml in bottle #1. 40ml total needed -14ml means you need only
26ml from bottle number 2. In bottle number 2 was 41ml so you need to
take out 15ml.

If you want 150mg/ml and you have 2000mg of hormone, you need 13.3ml
(2000mg/150mg/ml is 13.3) total solution. You must use all of bottle 1
which is 5ml in a 2gF kit. You must use 5ml of bottle 1 solution for
every 2000mg of hormone you have. 2000mg of hormone takes up
2ml so now you have 7ml. 13.3ml total needed - 7ml used means you need
6.7ml from bottle 2.


If you want 200mg/ml and you have 2000mg of hormone, you need 10ml
(2000mg/200mg/ml is 10) total solution. You must use all of bottle 1
which is 5ml in a 2gF kit. You must use 5ml of bottle 1 solution for
every 2000mg of hormone you have. 2000mg of hormone takes up 2ml, so
now you have 7ml. 10ml total needed - 7ml used means you need 3ml of
oil from bottle 2.

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winstrol69

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posted December 30, 2000 05:46 PM

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I have made 200mg/ml be 4!


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conan69

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posted December 30, 2000 05:52 PM

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200mg/ml sounds damn good to me
shit then i would only need 4-5 cc a weak

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