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  Difference between suspension and propionate

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Author Topic:   Difference between suspension and propionate
Spunky

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1300
From:USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted December 26, 2000 08:57 PM

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anyone see better gains w/ one or the other? Im wanting to back off the test a little.. lower my doses for a few weeks..... thought about switching to some suspension or prop. could u get by injecting EOD instead of ED? Also, which injection is usually more painful for u guys?


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Spunky

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1300
From:USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted December 26, 2000 09:12 PM

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damnit, bump


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jersey boy

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 869
From:-
Registered: Jun 2000

posted December 26, 2000 09:19 PM

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I'd use the suspension closer to a contest to get rid of the water quicker. Prop to me, and I've said this alot is a great way to jump start a cycle. I haven't heard of too many using it as a backbone test for the simple reason of multiple injections that are needed due to it's quick acting quality. I hope that helps a little.

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KODIAK99

Freak

Posts: 1962
From:New York, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted December 26, 2000 10:24 PM

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Lengthy but informative. . .


Suspension

Another injectable testosterone compound which is used in power sports circles is Testosterone suspension. In the following we will describe the testerone dissolved in water. For athletes who readily and frequently work with the popular oily testosterone suspensions (Sustanon 250 or Testosterone Depot) this information might be something new. Besides, water-dissolved tes-tosterone was actually the first injectable steroid. In Europe during the 1940's injectable testosterone was used in the German armed forces to increase aggressiveness and stamina, and also in the recov-ery of undernourished prisoners of war. This was nothing else but crystalline testosterone mixed with water. Russian weightlifters be-gan experimenting with this testosterone compound during the late 1 940's and broke one world record after another. Since, at the time, pure testosterone without additional esters was used, the substance remained in the body for only a few hours requiring daily injec-tions, and often several per day By first injecting the testosterone molecules with an ester, such as for example isobutyrate (in Agovirin), it was possible to prolong the duration of effect up to about one week.

Since testosterone is dissolved in water the substance reaches the blood after only 1-2 hours so that it is unnecessary to wait longer for results, a circumstance that is advantageous to powerlifters. In the last one or two weeks before a competition testosterone suspen-sion is injected daily, often resulting in amazing strength gains. Of-ten Testo -suspension is even injected on the day of competition to increase the athlete's aggressiveness and self-esteem in order to ap-proach the difficult tasks with the right attitude. For this purpose, this rapidly effective testosterone is considerably more effective than methyltestosterone (see chapter "Methyltestosterone"). Among East European powerlifters and competing bodybuilders Testo-suspen-sion has always been a "last minute secret." Especially women can reliably change their estrogen/testosterone ratio to break down excessive water and to give softer muscles a visibly better hard-ness in a short time. Female bodybuilders usually have consider-ably greater difficulty in getting their calves and upper thighs in contest condition than their upper bodies. Often you see a female bodybuilder on the posing platform with striated pecs, delts and triceps, whereas her lower body appears flat and soft. For several reasons the estrogen level can be too high, leading to an increase in the hormone aldosterone. Since aldosterone regulates the body's own water household-meaning the higher the aldosterone level, the more water is stored by the organism-it is important to keep the aldosterone level as low as possible. Finally it is known that women by nature store fat and water mostly in their upper thighs. An optimal form for a competition requires a high an-drogen level with a minimal estrogen level. Women who on the day of competition never obtain the right muscle hardness can usually achieve a significant performance enhancement by in-jecting 25-50 mg Testosterone suspension daily during the last 1-4 days before the competition.

However, men also use Testosterone suspension during the last 10-14 days before a bodybuilding competition to make an all-out effort for optimal muscle hardness. Athletes report outstand-ing results when Testo -suspension is used together with the car-bohydrate/loading technique. The athlete unloads his body by depriving it of carbohydrates for several days and begins loading carbohydrates three days before a competition with the goal of storing as much glycogen in the muscle cells as possible. He can optimize this process by taking 5 0-100 mg Testosterone suspen-sion/day. Testosterone suspension considerably boosts the stor-ing of glycogen in the muscle cells and, since dissolved in water, becomes effective almost immediately. As is known, glycogen also bonds with water in the muscle cells, which manifests itself in extremely tight and full muscles.

In the mass-gaining phase Testosterone suspension is only rarely used. With respect to strength and muscle mass the gains, as with all injectable testosterone esters, are very good; however, this testosterone compound requires frequent injections in order to reach a performance-enhancing dosage. With 100 mg every 1-2 days rapid muscle gains can usually be obtained and the strength increase can usually be felt from the first day. However a stale effect remains since the injection of testosterone dissolved in water is not only extremely unpleasant but the pain at the injection area remains for some time. To endure such martyrdom for several weeks is not to everyone's liking. The gains disappear rapidly after use of the compound is discontinued.

As for side effects, the same is true for Testosterone suspension as it is for other testosterone esters. A considerable part of the com-pound is converted into dihydrotestosterone in the body so that acne and hair loss occur quite frequently. The endogenous test-osterone production is already considerably lower after only a few days of use which during a several week long intake could result in testicular atrophy and temporary impotence. Women experience the usual virilization symptoms. An enormously in-creased sexual drive in both sexes is noted, often from the first day of intake. The same can be said about the influence of Testo suspensions on the aggression potential. Men are also at risk to develop a prostate condition or possible gynecomastia.

The price on the black market for a 2 ml ampule, according to reports by ath-letes, is around $6 - 10. Since steroid molecules do not easily bond with water, Test-osterone suspension must be well shaken before the injection. Those who let the injection rest for more than 30 minutes with-out touching it will notice that the testosterone separates from the watery solution in form of a white, crystalline powder. After shaking, an opaque, white mixture is formed in the ampule.

Propinate. . .

Testosterone propionate, after Testosterone cypionate and enanthate, is the third injectable testosterone ester that needs to be described in detail. This makes sense because, unlike cypionate and enanthate, both of which are widely used and well-spread in Europe, proprionate is little noticed by most athletes. The reader will now certainly pose the question of why the characteristics of an apparently rarely used substance are described in detail. At a first glance this might seem a little unusual but when looking at this substance more closely, there are several reasons that become clear. Testosterone propionate is used on so few occasions in weightlifting, powerlifting, and bodybuild-ing not because it is ineffective. On the contrary, most do not know about propionate and its application potential. One acts according to the mottos "what you don't know won't hurt you" and "If oth-ers don't use, it can't be any good." We do not want to go this far and call propionate the most effective testosterone ester-, however, in certain applications it is superior to enanthate, cypionate, and also undecanoate because it has characteristics which the common test-osterones do not have.

The main difference between propionate, cypionate, and enanthate is the respective duration of effect. In contrast to the long-acting enanthate and cypionate depot steroids, propionate has a distinctly lower duration of effect. The reader learns how long this time is from the package insert of the German Jenapharm GmbH for their compound "Testosteron Jenapharm" (see list with trade 'names): "Testosterone proprionate has a duration of effect of I to 2 days." An eye-catching difference, however, is that the athlete "draws" distinctly less water with propionate and visibly lower water retention occurs. Since propionate is quickly effective, often after only one or two days, the athlete experiences an increase of his training energy, a better pump, an increased appe-tite, and a slight strength gain. As an initial dose most athletes pre-fer a 50-100 mg injection. This offers two options: First, because of the rapid initial effect of the propionate-ester one can initiate a sev-eral-week-long steroid treatment with Testosterone enanthate. Those who cannot wait until the depot steroids become effective inject 250 mg of Testosterone enanthate and 50 mg of Testosterone propionate at the beginning of the treatment. After two days, when the effect of the propionates decreases, another 50 mg ampule is injected. Two days after that, the elevated testosterone level caused by the propi-onate begins to decrease. By that time, the effect of the enanthates in the body would be present; no further propionate injections would be necessary. Thus the athlete rapidly reaches and maintains a high testosterone level for a long time due to the depot testo. This, for example, is important for athletes who with Anadrol 50 over the six-week treatment have gained several pounds and would now like to switch to testosterone. Since Anadrol 50 begins its "breakdown" shortly after use of the compound is discontinued, a fast and el-evated testosterone level is desirable.

The second option is to take propionate during the entire period of intake. This, however, requires a periodic injection every second day. Best results can be obtained with 50-100 mg per day or every sec-ond day. The athlete, as already mentioned, will experience visibly lower water retention than with the depot testosterones so that propionate is well-liked by bodybuilders who easily draw water with enanthate. A good stack for gaining muscle mass would be, for example, 100 mg Testosterone propionate every 2 days, 5p mg Winstrol Depot every 2 days, and 30 mg Dianabol/day. Propionate is mainly used in the preparation for a competition and used by female athletes. And in this phase, dieting is often combined with, testosterone to maintain muscle mass and muscle density at their maximum. Propionate has always proven effective in this regard since it fulfills these requirements while lowering possible water re-tention. This water retention can be tempered by using Nolvadex and Proviron. A combination of 100 mg Testosterone propionate every 2 days, either 50 mg Winstrol Depot/day or 76 mg Parabolan every 2 days, and 25 mg Oxandrolone/day help achieve this goal and are suitable for building up "quality muscles."

Women especially like propionate since, when applied properly, an-drogenic-caused side effects can be avoided more easily The trick is to increase the time intervals between the various injections so that the testosterone level can fall again and so there is an accumulation of androgens in the female organism. Women therefore take propi-onate only every 5-7 days and obtain remarkable results with it. The, androgenic effect included in the propionate allows better re-generation without virilization symptoms for hard-training women. The dosage is usually 25-50 mg/injection. Higher dosages and more frequent intervals of intake would certainly show even better re-sults but are not recommended for women. The duration of intake should not exceed 8-10 weeks and can be supplemented by taking mild and mostly anabolic steroids such as, for example, Primobolan, Durabolin, and Anadur in order to promote the synthesis of pro-tein. Men who do not fear the intake of testosterone or the possible side effects should go ahead and give propionate a try. The side ef-fects of propionate are usually less frequent and are less pronounced. The reason is that the weekly dose of propionate is usually much lower than with depot testosterones. A daily injection of 50 mg amounts to a weekly dose of 350 mg while several depot injections easily launch the milligram content of testosterone into the four-figure range. When compared with enanthate and cypionate, pro-pionate is also a "milder" substance and thus better tolerated in the body. Those who are convinced that they need daily testosterone injections should consider taking propionate. The key to suc-cess with propionate lies in the regular intake of relatively small quantities (50-100 mg every 1-2 days.)

Although the side effects of propionate are similar to the ones of enanthate and cypionate these, as already mentioned, occur less fre-quently. However, if there is a predisposition and very high dosages are taken, the known androgenic-linked side effects such as acne vulgaris, accelerated hair loss, and increased growth of body hair and deep voice can occur. An increased libido is common both in men and women with the use of propionate. Despite the high conversion rate of propionate into estrogen gynecomastia is less common than with other testosterones. The same is true for possible water reten-tion since the retention of electrolytes and water is less pronounced. The administration of testosterone-stimulating compounds such as HCG and Clomid can, however, also be advised with propionate use since it has a strong influence on the hypothalamohypophysial tes-ticular axis, suppressing the endogenous hormone production. The toxic influence on the liver is minimal so that a liver damage is unlikely (see also Testosterone enanthate). What athletes dislike most about propionate are the frequent injections that are necessary.

As for frequent injections: The Testosterone Berco Suppositories by the German company Funke can help. This is quite an un-usual testosterone compound since these are suppositories. The suppositories contain 40 mg Testosterone propionate and are in-troduced into the body through the rectum. This form of intake also has an additional advantage. The substance Testosterone pro-pionate is reabsorbed very rapidly through the intestine. For a package with 18 suppositories the price on the black market is about $35.

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If you are going to be a bear. . .be a big fucking bear!!!!!


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ItalianSweetness

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 587
From:NY
Registered: Feb 2000

posted December 26, 2000 10:59 PM

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Kodiak: in your reading, dianabol, winstrol and test propinate are said to be a good quality muscle building stack. Doesn't winstrol and dianobol work on the same receptor sites and don't they cancel each other out?? Please elaborate on why that would be beneficial for muscle?

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~In order to look UNIQUE.....you have to eat UNIQUE.
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Hugh Gellatts

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 565
From:Ronnie Coleman's gym
Registered: Oct 2000

posted December 27, 2000 12:49 AM

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I asked Bill Roberts the same question. Winstrol and D-bol do have different effects. In stacking orals though he recomended Winstrol+Anadrol+non-aromatizing androgen (tren, eq) over using Winstrol and D-bol with an injectable. The Winstrol and Anadrol seem to work very well together with minimal sides. I used it to kick off my cycle and gained 25lbs in two weeks.


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