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 I propose an option........Reply all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MODS especially
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| Author | Topic: I propose an option........Reply all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MODS especially | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 633 |
Hey Bros, My thoughts today are not of candy canes and sugar plums but of the next cycle in my life. I have weighed the pros and cons of a hard cycle vs life long use of roids at a moderate dosage and I am undecided. The truth is, most people gain considerable amounts of strength and size in a hard cycle and keep about 75%(if done correctly). Then for about 10-16 weeks you are off of gear and you try your best to make it through it. It sucks and we all know it!!!!! My proposal is to use a moderate dosage of a steriod that has extremely low sides and use it for life. Personally, primo would be my choice but it is quite expensive. So, I look into Deca as my option. At 400mg of Deca per week it would run me about $1000 dollars a year to stay on. I would never experience the down side of coming off. Never have my bubble busted when more water came off than I though I was holding etc..... My question to you guys is simple. Over time, would you make better gains on a moderate dosage over a lifetime vs hard burst cycles with the depression and extra sides to deal with? Like to hear your opinions..... Pup'nIrn
[This message has been edited by Pup'nIrn (edited December 23, 2000).]     | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 667 |
I understand your situation. But the deca--> Gyno I have been thinking along the lines of EQ? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 633 |
I have looked into eq too Greenhouse...I suppose 150-300 would do? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 857 |
You would have to stop for maybe 4 to 6 weeks at a time. Hit some insulin to maintain, clomid to get the balls pumping, and some dnp to scrub up the receptors. If you stay on for life, forget about kids. And after awhile you wont see any type of gains. Your receptor wont respond. First you will have to up your dose to get the same results. Then you will start losing mass even at elavated doses. I would say it wouldnt work. I still havent mentioned the abseses you will get from all the injections. The list goes on. A good bridge will be your best bet. Clomid, insulin, and DNP every 5 months would keep things going. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 601 |
Money solves a lot. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 333 |
IT DOSEN'T WORK LIKE THAT BRO. YOU WILL GAIN FOR A WHILE ABOUT 4-5 MONTHS BUT AFTER THAT YOUR RECEPTORS WILL BE LOADED. WHICH MEANS YOU WILL NOT GAIN ANYMORE. JUST THINK OF WHEN YOU COME OFF, YOU WILL HAVE TO COME OFF SOMETIME, YOUR BODY WILL BE SO DEPENDENT ON THE DECA THAT YOU WILL HAVE A VERY BAD CRASH. SAY YOU GO ON FOR 3 YEARS, IS IT REALLY WORTH PAYING FOR ALL 3 YEARS WHEN YOUR ONLY GAINING FROM THE FIRST 5 MONTHS. | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 42 |
What if you switched the type of gear every three months to keep the receptors guessing...just a thought. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 198 |
http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_92cycle.html | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 11 |
You need to clear those receptors out bro. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 170 |
Why is there so much doubt about the body's receptors abilities to uptake drugs over time? The following things have been proven in studies- A)Receptors upregulate in the presence of higher than natural androgen levels. B)It would take a miricle too completely fill all of the body's avaliable receptors for androgens. The only exception might be if you have a VERY LOW receptor population, like if you were in the bottom 1% of the population. C)The body is able to make gains on 30-70mgs of test a week, continually. The receptors do not shut down 3 years after puberty. They will be less sensative (IE -willing to accept androgenic compounds from entering) with lower levels of androgens in the system, but this only proves A. Sources: "Chirp Chirp" PS. Deca over the long term is a VERY BAD IDEA. I will let the other know-all's of the board go into more detail. If it were I, I would use 200mgs of Propinate a week. I however, am a strong beleiver in total health, and that entitles the proper operation of all of the body's various systems. Steriods should only be cycled if your endrocrine system can recover properly. If it can not, than cycling steriods I would say becomes a threat to general health over time. --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1909 |
MeanOne makes a very cogent argument. . .I agree with most of it. . .I would however not recommend staying on AS for the rest of your life unless there was a medical condition that warranted such an approach. If that was the case a synthetic like deca, primo, or eq would not be my AS of choice, a testosterone ester would certainly make more sense. Again the difficulty your going to run into is eventually you may create a physiological condition such that your dependant on the additional AS and no longer have the option of stopping therapy if you should so choose. . .there are also the uncertain and rarely discussed possible long term sides associated with AS use. . .we are the guinea pigs my friend a choice we've all made. . .and finally there are the possible sides associated with any additional AS in your system. . .hair loss, lower sperm count (want to get the old lady pregnant), acne, oily skin, higher blood pressure and the always unwanted possiblity of infection from injecting every few days for the next 3 years. Lastly, I am a believer in the deregulation not the upregulation of the body's receptors over the long haul on the same AS. . .I don't really care what scientific proof might be thrown at me here, I speak from my own personal experience. . .using the same AS repeatedly leads to poorer results. . .changing and stacking your cycle with a reasonable rest period to allow the body to return to its normal salutary hormonal levels is a key to AS use and long term success. . .if you are looking for permanent gains look more towards GH in addition to AS. Good Luck. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 170 |
Kod, here's a few things for you too look up with you get the "Hot Minute." Dr. John H. Ruthfield, Long term study of administered Androgens. 1998. Medical Economics listing number 18365-ie. (as stated before) Dr. Samuel S Swanson, Determaining receptor functions with androgens. 1992. Medical Economics listing number W5783-er. Dr. A.S. Kurela, Long term androgenic therapy conditions and effects. 1995, revised 1997. Medical Economics listings V6389-cf-a and (revised) V6389-cf-b. The first two may provide serious doubt in your mind as to receptor down regulation, while the third made a mid-study hypothesis that the receptors would down regulate after between 75-100 days. This was however proven incorrect, as the patients (or subjects) re-adressed nutritional concerns. In the revision, 30% of the subjects remained under care (IE, using) and another 27% remain under care, with supplimenting Velvet Bean into thier daily schedule. With the 30% being the control group, and the 27% being the test group, it was shown that the body's immune functions inproved, and testicle hypertrophy occured - even while on. The drug used was Cyponiate, at a dosage of 400mgs every 2 weeks, over 12 months. Well I'll let you read the rest for yourself. You might be unable to produce gains while using the same type of drug for extended periods, but did you fully evaluated your body's needs? The body does not alter the shape of the test. molecule when natural produced, and it does not hault the body's functions after a specific time because of it's form. Just some things to think about, I wasn't attempting to tell you what your body did and did not do. "Chirp Chirp" --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 633 |
I have been reading up myself, mean one. The truth is, most professional bodybuilders never come off of all their gear. They do stay on a moderate dosage of a primarily anabolic substance...bridging. My big problem is that studies and their results continue to differ. I do believe that your receptors WILL upgrade slightly and Never truly fill-up. I do understand the lessened results but the truth is that most people would continue to grow at a faster rate with lessened results on gear than naturally off. I only proposed this as an option. I am exploring them all as I hate the way it makes you feel great for 10-12 weeks and then drops you on your ass with reality. [This message has been edited by Pup'nIrn (edited December 24, 2000).] |
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posted December 23, 2000 09:00 PM
