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 Maximizing anabolism through protein manipulation....
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| Author | Topic: Maximizing anabolism through protein manipulation.... | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4956 |
Hi Fellas.I found yet another excellent read from the notorious guru Dharkam that goes into great detail of how protein influences anabolism and ways to make the most of this process... HOW MEALS CAN CONTROL PROTEIN SYNTHESIS Remember that muscle mass is subject to a constant protein turnover.Old proteins are degraded(catabolism)while new ones are formed(anabolism).Meals stimulate muscle protein synthesis while fasting reduces it.By the same token,meals reduce catabolism while fasting enhances it.As a result,meals make your muscles bigger and fasting makes them smaller.You may wonder how eating or not eating can effect the protein turnover so dramatically.The intracellular machinery responsible for muscle protein synthesis is cumbersome,but it can be stopped or activated quickly at the initiation level.Inside each muscle cell there are many little "machines" that make new proteins.If the machines work rapidly enough,new proteins,which are responsible for muscle contractions,will accumulate and your muscles will get bigger and stronger.Each anabolic machine has two switches: One to turn it on and one to turn it off.The on button initiates the machine's action,and scientists call those initiators eIF4E,for eukaryotic initiation factor 4E.The more free eIF4E there is inside your muscle cells,the stronger the anabolic drive will be.The off button,which stops the initiation,is called 4E-BP1.BP,or binding protein,is just like IGF-BP1,a protein that binds to IGF.When binding proteins bind to a molecule,they usually trap and inactivate it.Whenever 4E-BP1 binds to eIF4E,it forms a complex called eIF4E.4E-BP1.As a result,the freeeIF4E is now trapped and cannot switch on the muscle building machines.Therefore,eIF4E represents the bottleneck of muscle protein synthesis--Where anabolism is switched on or off in the short term.As you eat protein,the amino acids it contains free your eIF4E from the 4E-BP1.That's how most of the anabolic influences of dietary proteins work.New research suggests amino acids may also directly reduce the production of another binding protein,IGF-1BP1,which prevents IGF-1 from producing its muscle building effects.Therefore,amino acids also have a positive effect on your anabolic hormone levels and the growth reactions they produce.It's easy to understand that the more your muscles are exposed to amino acids,the more free eIF4E will initiate anabolism.Nevertheless,you have to reach a certain amino acid threshold to free enough eIF4E to increase anabolism signifigantly.Whey protein,which is absorbed very rapidly,is the easiest and most efficient means of reaching that threshold.It's superior for increasing protein synthesis because it provides a pharmacological level of amino acids called "hyperaminoacidemia".The hormone insulin also has the ability to free eIF4E to some extent.Its effects are weaker than those of amino acids,but it can work wonders when combined with amino acids.When you fast,your blood's amino acid levels are reduced.Increasingly more eIF4E becomes locked by the 4E-BP1,and your anabolic drive slows.So to free the eIF4E,you eat protein,and to trap it,you fast.The blood protein level acts as an accelerator or a brake for anabolism: Low protein equals low anabolism,while high protein equals high anabolism.Naturally,you want to speed up anabolism as often as possible,so you have to ingest protein frequently.That's the rationale behind eating 6+ times a day.You get to accelerate anabolism during most of the day instead of braking often,as you do on a traditional three-meals-a-day plan. HOW MEALS CAN CONTROL CATABOLISM Whenever the blood level of amino acids rises but not to the anabolic threshold,it stops catabolism and has almost no effect on anabolism.Proteins like casein,which don't come close to reaching the anabolic threshold,are very good at providing long-lasting muscle protection because of their slow,gradual absorbtion.Whenever a muscle doesn't get its basic supply of exogenous amino acids from the diet,it will cannibalize itself to provide new muscle-building blocks.Casein offers along-lasting guarantee against that cannibalization thaks to its natural time-released action.Insulin is also responsible in part for the meal-induced reduction in catabolism.Insulin is usually an anti-catabolic hormone,except right after training(where it becomes anabolic).Fasting produces a lack of insulin,which rapidly triggers catabolism. BOOSTING YOUR TOTAL PROTEIN INTAKE Today's protein powders make it possible for your body to absorb much more protein.That's especially true with high-quality whey or caesin products.They're pre-digested,so all you have to do is open your mouth and swallow,and amino acids enter your blood stream almost instantaniously.Research has shown that signifigant amounts of whey or casein are in your blood within 20 minutes of ingestion.It doesn't take hours to absorb them.Two hours after admistration,however,whey is long gone while casein is still there,producing its anti-catabolic actions.A high speed of absorbtion,such as you get with whey protein,requires that you eat very frequently.Today's high-tech proteins are wasted if you only eat three times a day because they enter and leave your system so rapidly.Even the more recent recommendation of eating every three waking hours can be innefficient if you use only fast-absorbing whey protein.The slower and harder to digest milk-and-egg protein mixture is better suited to the every-three-hours scenario.While the introduction of whey allowed bodybuilders to reach a new,higher level of protein absorbtion,it also meant that six meals a day weren't enough for experienced bodybuilders using mostly whey protein..In that case,ten meals a day would be better for maintaining an anabolic state. The solution is to introduce high-qualty,slower-absorbing casein.A whey-and-casein combination allows you to stay within the less constraining confines of the six-meals-a-day regimen(and still maintain an anabolic/anti-catabolic state).Compared to three normal meals,which bring in at most 150-180 grams of protein a day,six meals can help you easily take in 250+ grams.Advanced drug-using bodybuilders can build up to ten meals a day to reach the 400-500 gram mark.Steroids increase the need for protein because they accelerate muscle-protein turnover.What's more,many steroid users have to reduce their carb intake,or they blow up because of the excessive water-retention that the drugs can induce.That means that they must the protein to re-coup the calorie deficit created by lower-carb diets. WHY LOSE DURING THE NIGHT WHAT WAS SO PAINFULLY GAINED DURING THE DAY? A common misconception among weightlifters is that your body builds muscle mass while you sleep.During your nocturnal fast,your muscles become net exporters of amino acids,which means you're in a catabolic phase.MoreeIF4E.4EBP1 complexes are formed,slowing the anabolic drive.So,while a minimal anabolic response repairs some of the muscle damage inflicted by training,the overall balance is usually negative due to nocturnal catabolism.You can recover faster and grow more if you tame it. The first way of taming nocturnal catabolism is to have a casein or casein-and-whey protein shake right before bed.The timed release of amino acids will protect your muscles.Of course,eating carbs along with the casein would accentuate the anti-catabolic effect,but the problem is it's fattening to eat carbs at night.It's a trade-off,and you must decide if you want to run the risk of adding a little bit of fat in exchange for more muscle or sacrifice a little bit of muscle for hardness.Unless you're exceptionally lean,I'd advise against eating carbs at night. The second technique is to eat in the middle of the night.In that case you face a new factor on top of the hardness-vs.-extra-muscle issue,and that's the quality of sleep.If waking up in the middle of the night makes you irritable the following day,don't do it.If you tend to wake up in the middle of the night anyway-Say to go to the bathroom-have another whey-and-casein drink.In either case,remember the first thing you want to do in the morning is free your eIF4E with a huge whey protein drink.That will jump start your anabolism and partly make up for the night time slow down. THE LESSON OF MOTHER'S MILK You might wonder if the advantages of whey and casein protein counteract each other.Nature provides a particularly bright answer.Everyone knows that mother's milk contains protein that has an exceptional ability to support very fast growth,but did you know that it's a combination of both whey and casein?With the anabolic properties of whey,and the anti-catabolic action of casein,mother's milk is an example of a nutrient optimized to support growth. For bodybuilders,the whey-and-casein combination provides the anabolic effect of whey while counteracting its short-lasting action and its lack of anti-catabolic properties.Using the combination between real-food meals allows you to be a bit less strict with your meal timing,and that can certainly be advantageous to those who work a nine-to-five job or go to school,where it isn't practical to follow a rigid 6+ meals-a-day frequency..... Well,as you can see fella's,a whey/casein protein combination offers benifits towards maintaining a state of positive nitrogen retention that standard whey-only powders do not address.I personally always use a whey/casein combination for this very reason,as it provides you with a true,time-released absorbtion of amino acids to promote growth,and more importantly,KEEP it.High quality whey/casein products on the market right now are as follows(but not limited to)--- "Protein-plus" by Met-rx "Pro-fusion" by Muscle-linc "Grow" by Biotest Okay,now my fingers are fatigued from typing my friends,lol.I hope you all enjoyed,and learned some new things along the way....Huck    | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 108 |
Thanks, good post man. Pretty interesting stuff.  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 167 |
I have one problem with your rationale Huck. Firstly, the six-meals a day plan will obviously give great results, bit waht of the study performed on protein pulse feeding? This study had participants eat 5-6 meals, consisting of 30g protein each, and then measured nitrogen retention for a period of 2 weeks. It also performed another study at the same time. In this study participants ate 3 meals a day, were 2 meals were low in protein, and the last one had a very high level of protein. Protein content(in grams), was exactly the same in both groups. Needless to say they measured nitrogen retention, and found to their astonishment that the pulse fed group had greater nitrogen retention than the 6 meals a day group. So Huck, wouldn't it be better to have, say 3-5 low-protein meals followed by one massive one, to induce greater nitrogen retention, instead of 5-6 similar ones? Just a thought. godspeed | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4956 |
Fonz-Interesting point...Were the athletes in that study drug using athletes? | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1677 |
Good article huck. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 167 |
No Huck, they weren't using any type of anabolics. It seems that if you feed the body protein with increased frequency, it becomes very adept at oxidizing the extra protein. However, with a huge protein meal it can only oxidize so much. Anyways, as far as the numbers are concerned: Nitrogen balance was more positive with the pulse feeding than with protein spread out (54 � 7 compared with 27 � 6 mg N/kg FFM/day).(1) Protein turnover rates were also higher with the pulse than with the spread diet (5.58 � 0.22 compared with 4.98 � 0.17 g protein/kg FFM/day), mainly because of higher protein synthesis in the pulse group (4.48 � 0.19 g protein/kg FFM/day) than in the spread group (3.75 � 0.19 g protein/kg FFM/day). godspeed | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 48 |
as always when huck or juice post its interesting.for the last 8 years i always drink a protein drink when i get up and b4 i go to bed at least 40 gramsplus i always take a multi-vit and mni b4 bed with 1 gram of vit.c.plus what i take throughout the day.so yea i agree with the article but i think you need the vitamins and minerals also.do you have any thoughts on that huck? | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4956 |
Fonz-Very interesting indeed.I have a funny feeling though,that this might not be the case with drug using athletes,as muscle protein turnover is accelerated quite a bit,and the need for constant influx of aminos is increased as a result.Protein with the androgen using athlete is going to be utilized quite differently from the non-A/S using participant.Do they list what types of proteins were being used in both groups in the"pulse"study? [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited December 23, 2000).] | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4956 |
H.S.-Simply switch over to the "meal-replacement" forms of these proteins,as they're vitamin-inclusive,if that concerns you.But a good multi-vitamin/mineral taken once a day will usually do the trick to keep the body's processes running smoothly... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 167 |
If one were to use a combination of anbolics/androgens. i.e. this would increase protein synthesis and nitrogen retention, while at the same time reducing endogeneous cortisol production. pulse-feeding would probably do nothing. But, if one were using only anabolics(or only androgens), or no steroids at all, pulse feeding would work because it would increase both protein synthesis and nitrogen retention, while at the same time reducing protein degradation. godspeed | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 48 |
huck i take at least 5 multi vit. and min. a day and 5 grams of vit. c.been doing this for years.as far as meal replacements go too expensive,i drink alot of protein throughout the day.like to save my money for the good stuff! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 113 |
So how often should you eat to avoid catabolism. Every 2hours, 4hours? ------------------ In the Great words of Brad Knight "Lift it pussy!" | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4956 |
With the whey/casein combinations,you could get away with every 4-6 hours... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 113 |
Thanks a lot Huck. ------------------ In the Great words of Brad Knight "Lift it pussy!" | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 582 |
Thank's for the info Huck. I already use met-rx protien plus so that's good to know. I also use whey and any other protien source that I can get. Very good post. ghans | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4956 |
Up for the morning crew.... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 66 |
Great info Huck. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1525 |
Up you go Huck ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 50 |
Excellent post. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4956 |
Damn,this was already slipping off into archive-ville.Come on fella's at least keep it bumped for a while... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 611 |
damn huck your goting towards 5000 posts. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 9 |
holy crap, looks like somebodys been doing their homework... its nice to know there are very knowledgeable bros here...  | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
interesting read worth a bump.... | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 49 |
Awesome work,as always Huck!!-THE PROTOTYPE | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1918 |
Both Huck and Fonz make good points here, but I will fill you in on a technique that works very well along the lines of protein manipulation. Sad but true protein oxidation will become very prominent in a diet in which one will consume the same amounts of protein per meal to achieve their goal amount for the day. Of course this is no good. Also many people only buy protein, not paying any attention to what they are actually getting, thus the reason I like to use protein factory, simply because I can customize what I want in my protein. A solution to allowing your body to use the protein you feed it could run like this. Lets say you divide your protein intake up to 40g per meal, and thats fine. However this may not produce the effects your looking for. Instead of using the same amount per meal, mix a match a bit. Keep your intake on the low (25g) a meal, pre-workout, this kick starts your metabolism for the day and prepares you for your workout, not affecting your over all gains. Post workout, up your intake to whatever amount needed to equate your daily goal, but!! with this twist. Approx. 4 hours post workout, consume a meal very high in protein 50-80g as an example. This is a point when your body will really need it, and very little will be lost to oxidation. Dont forget to get the correct amount of carbs in there as well. This will really kick in the anabolic effects of the protein your using, and in a sense catch your body off guard. And if I may comment on types of protein, I totally agree with Huck on choices. I use whey/egg directly after my workout, as both are very quickly absorbed and egg protein has a huge bio-availability. Throughout the day I mix my protein sources, every meal/powder. I use both milk proteins and meat proteins, or casein/whey isolate. As for catabolism during sleep, Ive always found it to work well ingesting whey protein with a very large glass of warm milk, right before bed, and if your wanting to throw some moderate carbs in there, rice cakes will fill the bill nicely. I dont have any studies to back this up on, but its what Ive learned through trial and error, and what has really made a difference in my struggle for the prize! My .02 ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 623 |
good info as usual HUCK and WCP!!! ...what are some names of other whey/casein combo powder products????? ------------------ | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1525 |
saving this to disk. Some real good info guys. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1918 |
Roidranger, You can mix up your protein use by simply going to the local GNC and picking up thier egg proteins, they are very cheap, and that will be good for post workout along with a basic whey. As for a isolate/casein combo, go to www.proteinfactory.com and you can throw into your mix what you want, and they do it for you. Thus assuring you cant go wrong. WCP ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 29 |
Bump to top... Great subject. I have read in studies that this much protein is really not needed (minus the protein in the morning and before bed). This is because the body's nitrogen balance has a lot more to do with caloric intake as a total and not just grams of protein as one would think. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 36 |
Bump....excellent post Huck. You always have something worth reading. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 353 |
bump for good info | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 91 |
bump again..this is a great read. |
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posted December 22, 2000 11:39 PM