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 Understanding/increasing cell permeability....
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| Author | Topic: Understanding/increasing cell permeability.... | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4766 |
Hi fellas.I'm going to address an often neglected and misunderstood area today-Muscle cell interaction with testosterone/androgens;Problems occurring relevant to their entry into the cell,and ways around these impediments.The following is an old read by Michael Gundill(a.k.a. the legendary"Dharkam").Those of you intrigued,ENJOY... ANDROGEN ENTRY INTO THE MUSCLE CELL As bodybuilders,one of our goals is to organize the meeting of testosterone/androgens to its receptors;However,as the androgen receptors are located INSIDE the muscle fibers,forcing the entry of testosterone/androgens into the cell can be problematic from time to time.The muscle cells are covered by a membrane made of fat that has several purposes.The first,of course,is to hold the cell together.Another obvious purpose is to prevent the entry of unwanted molecules.Normally,testosterone/androgens are not on the unwanted list,but if their concentrations inside your muscles become excessive,the cell will start to resist them.Muscle cells have several means of getting rid of a specific molecule.They can destroy it accelerate its exit or prevent its entry. MEMBRANE RECEPTORS VS. NUCLEAR RECEPTORS Hormone receptors can either be found on the surface of the cell(membrane receptors)or inside the cell(nuclear receptors).Insulin,GH and IGF-1 receptors are said to be membrane receptors,which means they don't have to enter the muscle cell to produce their anti-catabolic effects.Instead they act by "touching" the outer surface of the cell.Steroids such as testosterone fall into the second category.They have to enter the cell to gain access to its receptors.For years,scientists have assumed that the above classification is correct.We now know it is not.Insulin must enter the cell to produce its anti-catabolic actions.GH also produces effects once it's inside the cells.On the other hand,androgens can elicit some of their actions by binding to membrane receptors.In fact,the very first effect you feel when using certain androgens is mediated by a nongenomic(independent of the gene/chromosome)action on your nerves.In other words,some androgen receptors are located on the surface of your neurons.Certain androgens will,at least indirectly,act on those membrane receptors,which translates over to an increase in muscle strength.Unfortunately,the membrane androgen receptors have nothing to do with the receptors that initiate muscle GROWTH. GETTING TESTOSTERONE/ANDROGEN RECEPTORS INTO THE CELL You'd think that a small membrane made of fat wouldn't be that hard for a molecule to cross.Steroids are derived from cholesterol,which is a form of fat.The popular theory states that as androgens are sythesized from fat,they easily cross the lipid bilayer that constitutes the plasma membrane;I don't think that's entirely true.First,the inside of the muscle membrane contains small channels that act as "androgen pumps".That means the cell can pump in extra-cellular androgen molecules whenever your muscles need more androgens.It also implies that in case of androgen excess inside the cell,the pump is inactivated in order to slow the entry of new androgen molecules.A similar problem occurs in the realm of fat burning.The fat molecules that are released from adipose tissue aren't free to enter the muscle cells to be burned.That's one of the reasons it's so difficult to burn fat when you're on a diet.The fat molecules need a pump called "fatty-acid-binding-protein(FABP)to enter the cells.A lack of FABP severely reduces the rate of entry of fat molecules into the cell. INCREASING CELL MEMBRANE FLUIDITY(PERMEABILITY) If the androgen pumps are inactive,steroids can still enter the cell thanks to passive diffusion.Unfortunately,that kind of transport is slow.In case of androgen excess inside the muscle cells,the hormone's exit will be accelerated.If the entry of new testosterone/androgen molecules is slowed while their export is accelerated,the cell level of androgens will fall rapidly,which is certainly not what any of us want.Scientists haven't studied the regulation of the androgen pumps to any great extent,so we know very little about them.That makes it hard for us to play with them,so we're left with finding a way to accelerate the passive diffusion of the androgen molecules.Their rate of entry is determined in part by the fluidity of the muscle membrane,something we do know how to influence.The membrane lipid bilayer is composed of the fat you eat or that your body synthesizes.BY CHOOSING THE RIGHT DIETARY FATS,YOU CAN ENHANCE MEMBRANE FLUIDITY.It's easy to figure out which fats are the most fluid.Just put them in the refridgerator.Saturated fats,such as butter,cheese and other animal proteins,are solid at low temperatures.Polyunsaturated fats remain fluid even at low temperatures.Bodybuilders are looking for two types of polyunsaturated fats,omega-6 fats,such as that found in primrose oil,and omega-3 fats,such as that found in fish oil(flax-seed oil is also rich in this department as well),with the latter being even more fluid than the former.Of course,you want to minimize your intake of the solidifying fats to the bare minimum;That is,you want to avoid saturated fats.By increasing the content of omega-6 and omega-3 fats inside the muscle cell membrane,YOU MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR MORE TESTOSTERONE/ANDROGENS TO ENTER THE FIBERS.You may already be familiar with the similar favorable properties the two polyunsaturated fats have on insulin actions because they increase membrane fluidity.THEIR INFLUENCE ON CELL PERMEABILITY IS NOT TO BE NEGLECTED.... Well gentleman,it looks as if we have uncovered yet another bodybuilding supplement that may very well augment our use of androgens and create a more efficient uptake of them by priming our cells to be more easily penetrated by steroid molecules.Don't know about you guys,but I for one will be be dropping a tablespoon or two of flax-seed oil into my protein shakes from now on,heh,heh.Hope you enjoyed guys.---Huck [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited December 06, 2000).]    | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 28 |
Ive enjoyed everything that you post HUCK...and this was no exception...excellent post bro!Its really nice to see an intelligent person posting on this board...keep up the good work buddy! | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4766 |
WOW,I can't believe this already slipped down to the second page...No ones interested in science I guess...At least give me a bump guys,to keep it at the top for a while-Thanks! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 458 |
Okay, here ya go...BUMP!  | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 754 |
I always enjoy your post, so I have printed this one. It is just to late in the day for real thinking. I have a job that takes constant thought, so I am brain dead now. I will tell ya if I liked it tomorrow. But thanks in advance. ------------------ "Obsession is passion. Use it. Make it your strength." -by Puc | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 537 |
Huck.. you kick ass.. this is fabulous info BUMP | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 718 |
Very good info! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 58 |
informative post, thanks.. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 580 |
reasoning behind the actions....bump ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5618 |
While he most likely is right, there is still an underlying problem and that is that the passive transport of chemicals across cell membranes (osmosis) is driven strictly by concentration gradients, it will only occur in a positve way (into the cell) if the concentration outside of the cell is higher than the concentration inside the cell. Now cells do have the ability to retain certain chemicals within their cellular structure independant of concentration, but the mechanism through which this works I can't really seem to remember. Nice post!
[This message has been edited by E2 (edited December 06, 2000).] | ||
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Guru
Posts: 3723 |
Huck keep this up I love to see all sides of AS. Keep it up I print out ever report you post. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 221 |
Thanks man. I agree, and Dan Duchane would also agree. In fact, when asked what the most important anabolic supplement on the market was, Dan Duchaine said EFA's, no questions about it. Great post! Bump!!!!!!!!! | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 5 |
great post! Bump! | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4766 |
Up for my buddy Jeff_Rys and any other bro's interested.... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 139 |
As always, great info to read, BUMP. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 60 |
EXCELLENT POST HUCK!!! I USE TO THINK THAT OMEGA-6 AND 3 WERE NOT IMPORTANT TO ONES DIET, BUT NOW I SEE THAT IT IS AND WHY! THANKS FOR THE INFO ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1860 |
Aside from taking flax, which I dont consider real damn palatable, and primrose or fish oils...one other nice trick for polyunsaturates is to snack on mixed nuts (unsalted) inbetween meals. Beautiful post my brother..simply beautiful!! WCP ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 258 |
bump | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 455 |
Good article Huck, Bump for the morning people ------------------ You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 126 |
O.K. I got it; my cycle now is gonna be: 500mg of sust twice a week,EQ(new Ttokkyo)400mg twice a week,2 tabs drol a day,and based on the article I'm going to add 300mg flax seed oil,eod.My question is : can I mix flax seed oil in the same syringe with sust or EQ,I know they are oil based also,but it's different oil,they use CanolaFry for sust and peanut for EQ,just bumping good article up,don't pay attention to what I'm actually typing,I tried to say that I'm gonna get this guy that scammed me for $120 and inject 3cc of flex oil in his eyeballs.Hehe,so my money can penetrate his membranes easier! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 384 |
Huck, KICK ASS!!! panerai, ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 530 |
What a great post Huck! That is great info and helpful. We all want to get the most out of our androgens. I will be supplementing with these fats. Thanks. ghans | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 72 |
How about MSM? It supposedly makes your membranes more permiable. [This message has been edited by 1 (edited December 07, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 168 |
NICE POST HUCK! EAST_COAST_BB | ||
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Novice
Posts: 4 |
Excellent information Huck. I have not posted because I am trying to learn from you guys. (Keeping my mouth shut and listening) This board has definitly taught me that I still don't know nearly as much as I need to. Thanks for your great information. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 521 |
"While he most likely is right, there is still an underlying problem and that is that the passive transport of chemicals across cell membranes (osmosis) is driven strictly by concentration gradients, it will only occur in a positve way (into the cell) if the concentration outside of the cell is higher than the concentration inside the cell. Now cells do have the ability to retain certain chemicals within their cellular structure independant of concentration, but the mechanism through which this works I can't really seem to remember." E2 seems to have caught the problem with this idea. Since testosterone is a lipophilic hormone and can passively diffuse across the cell membrane, it also has the ability to diffuse back OUT of the membrane. And since passive diffusion is governed by concentration gradients, then when the cell concentration is greater than the extracellular concetration, the hormone has the ability to move back out of the cell to equilibrate the gradient (the way to prevent this is to keep high levels of steroid flowing through the body). So increasing membrane fluidity can ease the entry into the cell, but likewise increase movement out of the cell. In the case of polar molecules that cannot enter the cell membrane by passive diffusion, they undergo active transport, whereby the cell can actively move them into the cell even against a concentration gradient, ex. glucose. It is quite possible that Dharkham is right and that testosterone does not enter the cell passively (to any great extent) and is primarily actively transported, where it can be concentrated inside the cell, but I tend to think that omega-3's benefits are derived from a different mechanism than this. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4766 |
Excellent points,E2 and Dezl.So obviously,there is some SCIENCE behind your madness,captain insano...J/K  And good point WCP,I completely forgot about nuts,thanks for adding that in my friend... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 137 |
bump | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 28 |
First off...BUUUUMMMMPPPP!!! for an excellent post...and second I'd just like to point out that even if HUCK's post was completely ass backwards wrong(which i dont believe it is,this is just to prove a point)it's still very important to supplement with omega 3's....from your skin to your joints to your brain....your body NEEDS EFA'S!!!!!So even if they have no application to bodybuilding directly(but i believe they do)they are still a very important part of your everyday diet for optimal health and well being....and like I said before...EXCELLENT POST BRO....keep the science comin!!!!! | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4766 |
Up she goes one last time....I want to make sure our bro Jeff_Rys gets to view it before it dissapears off into never-never land...Kee[ it bumped for a little while,okay bros?Thanks! | ||
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Novice
Posts: 3 |
bump! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1104 |
Excellent post Huck!  And also some good comments/additions by E2 & Delz. I saved that one. Keep it up huck. ------------------ |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted December 06, 2000 01:26 PM
