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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Moderate vs. Heavy Hitters
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| Author | Topic: Moderate vs. Heavy Hitters | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 371 |
Over the past week I have been struggling to come up with my second cycle. I have read just about every post on cycles and have noticed that there are two schools on this board. My observations: Heavy Hitters: Use high dosage, do not pyramid gear, hit receptors hard at beginning then taper at end, use Test as main gear, bridge cycles, etc. I find myself in the middle using concepts from each side. Frankly my body does not need a lot of gear to grow so even a cycle that some of you may seem moderate would be heavy for me. I know this because I trained my ass off for 8 weeks and gained 12 lbs on the following cycle: 200mg Deca weeks 1 - 5 Maybe it is genetics, food, first time use or just plain dedication - all I know is that I do not need a high dosage to grow. Furthermore I have decided that if I do cycles with low dosages my body will easily adjust to the new body-weight (10-15lbs) as opposed to larger gains (25-30 lbs), which my body will reject. My two cycle choices are: Cycle 1 OR Cycle 2 Which cycle variation would you recommend?
[This message has been edited by DSPO (edited December 02, 2000).]     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 159 |
hit it hard, you only live once, do it right ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Quote from Deppnade ============================================= ok, bros, mods, gurus, slopain, e2, huck, you name it, ive asked i seem to be more confused than ever, and im sure i know more than 50% of the guys on this board by now i am gonna do my first cycle in january, over christmas im gonna do some xenadrine to lose some fat cause i know that i am gonna gain some over my mass cycle
[This message has been edited by DSPO (edited December 01, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
bro if you only gained 12 lbs off the first cycle doesnt that tell you something, first off your dosages arent shit, you need to take something like 500-700mg of deca and 750 mg of test to get a good bloat and strength, 250mg of deca and test isnt gonna do shit the second time around, it really doesnt do shit for the first time, you can gain 12 lbs off andro and creatine. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
CN1 Where are you coming up with 500 to 700 mg of Deca? That might be fine if I weighted 250-300lbs. Shit bro how could you recommend a dosage without knowing any of my stats. The second cycle that is outlined is over double the amount of gear I used the first time. I know that I will gain at least 20 lbs on either cycle. P.S. If I gained 12 lbs every cycle that would be 36lbs per year. I could live with that couldn't you? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 304 |
DSPO. Bottom line is that everyone is different. You will have to experiment on yourself to know which one of your categories you fit into. I say that if you get good results on low dosages of stuff, then GREAT!! You will save alot of money & won't have to stick yourself as much. Guys who say shit like"Deca wont do shit by itself" & "you wont get anything out of sust250 unless you take 750mgs/week" are generalizing & dont realize that everyone reacts to different hormones AND different dosages, differently. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Thank you, finally an intelligent response. I did the experiment last cycle and came to the conclusion that I fit into the moderate category. Which cycle of the two posted above do you like better? The Deca and Primo are run slightly different | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 304 |
Well, I would do cycle 1 only because I always do a pretty sigifigant taper. Cycle 2, if I'm correct, your stopping the Primo @ 300mgs. Cycle 1 for me. Either way, that sounds like a pretty kick ass cycle IMO. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 767 |
I love primo. Do 400 mg of primo a week for 10 weeks, then 300, then 200... if you want, sus250 at 1 ml for the first 8 weeks. Those will be solid gains. I think primo is the best out there. But I have not done test yet for any significant cycle. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1143 |
Very mild, I would only comment by saying it seems like a lot of diff anabolics for such a light cycle. You might have better if not the same gains by just doing 500-750mgs sus or 600mgs deca for the duration. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Bump | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 1975 |
If you did the first cycle with 250mg sust, I would recommend doubling it. 500mg sust/week is still quite mild. 500-700mg deca /week is ridiculous. No need for that.
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1238 |
CN1 is on the right track. Anyone gains significantly on their first cycle. Kodiac is also correct, you don't need so many different types of gear. Try 150mgs of winny EOD,600mgs deca a week and 30mgs/day d-bol Your strength and lean body mass will go up nicely. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
look bro you may think you are growing and getting gains out of 200 mg of deca, but you know what that is just a maintenance level, I will take a whole 10cc jug of nor 200 at once, althought my injects are bi weekly right now, but 2-300 mgs of deca and sustanon are not gonna do anything for a second cycle, you will basically be doing a bridge cycle, you can flame me if you want but I know what I am talking about. I know that everyone is different but man one guy on here claimed he gained 8lbs off 50 mg of deca, now come on, if he gained 8 lbs off that then he is definitely not understading that diet and training can do that, now if you gained 12 lbs off the first cycle of low dose, I can garuntee you that you can take the same amount a second time around and you wont gain half of that, you will just be maintaining what you have already done. I have to take high doses to respond well since I have took so much shit in the past, and 100 mg of primobolan wont do shit either, another maintenance dose, any experienced juicer will tell you that 500 mg of primobolan is required to see or get signifigant improvements. I am here to tell you there is a big difference in jabbin you skin with a needle to maintain, and jabbin to get size. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 304 |
OK. CN1 is right;< He knows:< Listen to him because he's "here to tell ya". 200mgs of Deca & you wont get shit. May as well be injecting whale cum into your glute huh CN1??!! If you know everyone is different, then why do you ASSUME everyone is like you???? Make up your mind. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 548 |
Cycle 1 looks better except I am not sure that that amount of primo will do a whole lot of good. You can always just go with the deca for a little longer if you want a taper but your nuts will remain shut down. I like using dbol for 6-8 weeks but 4 is fine if you are just jump starting your gains until the sust and deca build up. I can tell a dramatic difference between 20mg and 25-30mg of dbol so you might consider upping the dose. 500mg of sus is a huge improvement over 250mg but since you are using deca as well you should be fine. So I would drop the primo and up the dbol. You are taking a good approach bro. No need for a gram of test on your first few cycles especially if you are happy with the results on low doses. If you aren't happy with this cycle you can always up the doses next cycle. I have seen some big ass guys that only do a few cc's of test. My two cents. giantset ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Yea I am only using the dbol to jump start until the Test and Deca kick in in week 4. The goal during the last few weeks is only to maintain what I have while my natural test levels come back online. That is why I don�t want to continue the Deca beyond week 10. Thanks for the input. Hey CN1 I did not have to flame you roidog420 did for me--thanks brother Anyone else? [This message has been edited by DSPO (edited December 01, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 304 |
Hey no problem. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
Lets hear it for Roiddog, he is the elite fitness discussion board pro of the month, since he is so knowledgeble he will be awarded a nice big dick to nibble on, and some corn-nuts to go with it, lets give him a big round of applause!!!!!! [This message has been edited by CN1 (edited December 01, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by CN1: now if you gained 12 lbs off the first cycle of low dose, I can garuntee you that you can take the same amount a second time around and you wont gain half of that, you will just be maintaining what you have already done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CN1, I agree with you that if I were to take the same low dosages that I did during my first cycle that perhaps I would only gain 6lbs. the second go around. But I am not taking the same low dosages. I have added a 560mg of Dbol; three times more of Deca and 4 times more Sustanon. Primo is the same but not looking for gains while taking this. Relatively speaking if I would have started with 500mg of Sustanon on my first cycle and now I am doing 4 times that amount it would equal 2000mg per week. If I would have started with 400mg of Deca on my first cycle and now am I am doing 3 times that amount it would equal 1200mg per week. Would you agree that comparing my proposed cycle to what I did the first time that this is a significant increase? Like you said and I also agree with this that we all need to understand that our bodies react differently to gear. Since you started of high you can�t go back and get any type of gains from less gear and neither can I. You just started with the bar a lot higher than I did and I respect your decision. Now can we get back to positive feedback? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Come on bros�. Looks like a few have commented on going with cycle 1...any more thoughts???? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
look bro am I stupid and cant read or what, but I look at your cycles 1 and 2 and they are practically the same with the exception of a few milligrams and couple week changes, to me the cycles are the same so it doesnt matter which one you do and you say you are takin 3 and 4 more times the deca and sustanon, all I see is maybe a few more weeks, the milligrams are almost the same as your first cycle, 250 sust, and 300 and 200mg of deca, I guess I am reading the wrong post because 4 times the amount of sus is 1250mgs of sustanon not 250, and deca it would be 1200mg not 300mg. [This message has been edited by CN1 (edited December 02, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
CN1, Yea you�re reading the information wrong or I may have not been clearly communicating�seemed a little confusing when I re-read. I was not comparing cycle 1 to cycle 2 but rather either of these to the first cycle that I have completed. Anyway here is the breakdown. My first cycle I did the following total amounts over 8 weeks My second cycle, which I have two options titled Cycle 1, and Cycle 2 contain the following total amounts: The only difference between my two variations of my second cycle is that with option 1 I use 700mg more Deca, extend the Deca to 10 weeks and change the way I do the Primo. Do you think they are the same or is the 1st cycle option better since I am doing more Deca over 2 more weeks. Bro can we clear the air here. I just want some advice. Any other bros have an opinion? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
Anyone who recommends a high dosage cycle for people who have done little or no gear are the reason why gear is illegal and looked down upon by the public. There are three categories of steroid use: 1) Use The geniuses that recommend high dosages are misusing and abusing gear. The reason why they think they need high dosages is because they started high themselves and need high dosages for growth. If a person starts low and works their way up, they can make the same gains without wasting their money and taxing their body. The individual can choose to what they like. It is their body. But as long as there are people who pass on their ignorance to other people, steroids will remain stigmatized.
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
2thick what are your thoughts on my plan for my second cycle?? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
Your cycles (1&2) look fine for good growth. I would say taper the d-bol the last week to 15mg. The bottom line is diet, training, and sleep. I don't like the cycles, but do what you want. You will grow well with either one. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
What don't you like about them? I am open to your opinions.. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
I don't like to recommend testosterone for the first cycle. You can make the same gains without using test. You can save the test for later cycles when the highly anabolic gear does not give you great gains anymore. I would recommend the Deca/D-bol by itself. Don't forget the high calories and protein. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Why do you not like test for first few cycles? How much Deca and Dbol? [This message has been edited by DSPO (edited December 03, 2000).] | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
Test is not needed for growth as a steroid novice. It can be very useful a few cycles down the road, but Deca, Primo, EQ and D-bol will be fine for the first few cycles. D-bol***Deca***Sust | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Thanks for the cycle...That is what I will do Is it better to take the Dbol every 4 hours or all at once 60 min prior to my workout? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
Split the d-bol between your waking hours. It is not a good idea to take them all at once. It is stressful for your liver. I am sure a few other people will disagree with my suggestion. I will just tell you that your cycle is what you make of it. You have to believe that you will make great gains (and back it up with a good diet, intensive training, and tons of sleep). Don't forget tons of water. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
I eat clean 6 meals a day, drink a gallon of water a day, train 5 days a week and sleep at least 8 hours a day. That is the only way that I would of been able to gain 12 lbs. on my first cycle with only 200mg of Deca for 5 weeks and 100mg of Primo for 8 weeks with 2 sust shots for DD. I know how to take the Clomid but do I need any other Ancillaries like milk thistle for the liver, etc.? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
I don't think you will need them, but milk thistle is good and so is cranberry extract. Also get some oils high is Omega-5 fatty acids. I think cod-liver oil is one of them. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Do I need Novaldex...I have read so many conflicting info on this? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
Unless you are very sensitive to gyno, you should not worry. Keep Nolva on hand. If you get irritated or itchy nipples then take 20mg/day until the irritation goes away, then 10mg/day (or EOD) until the end of your cycle. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
So should I save my Primo? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4811 |
You can throw it in if you like, but I would save it. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
I will save the Primo for later... I will be starting December 23... I know that just about every other mod bashes this approach so this is what I am going to do. I will post my results every week and we will let the results speak for themselves. Thanks for all your help tonight 2thick...Good Night DSPO | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
Bump...for tonight's crew |
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posted December 01, 2000 02:07 AM