GEORGE SPELLWIN'S ANNOUNCEMENTS
Enlightening Men about Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding for over Two Decades
| Author | Topic: STEROIDS ARE NOT MAGIC!!! | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 4771 |
It is not the type, dosage, or characteristics of an Anabolic Steroid that will make a difference in your gains. Gains are 50% diet, 20% training, 15% rest and 15% gear. If you are on a great bulking diet, intense workout routine, and getting plenty of rest then you should make gains with or without steroids. Of course you will have a lot more gains with the steroids, but you will also not make any gains if you use steroids and slack off on your diet, and training. That is why conservative is the way to go. Higher dosages are for seasoned veterans or lazy ass newbies who don't want to put in hard work. The lazy lifter raises the dosage instead of working harder. Do it right or don't do it at all!!    | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 370 |
Well said. Some folks think gear is the one & only solution to a new physique.  | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 396 |
Very good info 2Thick... Once, me and my buddy, both took some cyp(many years ago), and i put on 20pounds, and he didnt' gain anything... He never trained hard, and his diet was horrible... Whatever you put in is what your going to get out of it... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 683 |
Nice point. We see so many posts by shocked bros who didn't grow off eating mcdonalds and training twice a week, and blamed fake gear. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 65 |
VERY GOOD POINT BRO.....NOW, STEP #2 IS DRILLING IT INTO ALL THE NEWBIE'S HEADS. GOOD LUCK ON THAT ONE LOL | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 130 |
I have a question quite pertinent to your post 2thick- I'm 6'0ft, 195lbs, 12%bf, 21yrs old., been training hard for 4 years. For my first cycle I was going to use Sust alone (maybe primo during the last 5 weeks) for 8 weeks...what type of dosage for Sust should I go for: 250mg/week, 250mg/every 5 days, or 500mg/week. I'm looking to retain 15lbs of LBM. Alot of people on this board say that 500mg/week is the minimum dosage to use, although I think I can get by at 250mg/week. Your input is appreciated. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 492 |
I grow real good off McDonalds. [This message has been edited by harmonic (edited November 30, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 606 |
Good points all, 2Thick. Good thread title, too, should capture most of the newbies. Bjaarki ------------------ BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO! | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4771 |
bigpun, To be honest, I would not recommend test but if you want to use it, then you could keep about 12-15lb (if not more) with 250/week. The challange is to eat 3500-4700 quality calories per day with 1.5-2g of protein per pound/day. That will make a dramatic difference. High calories are a must to blow up on test cycles. If 250 is not enough (although I think it will be more than enough) then use 500 next time. There's no rush. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 396 |
Bigpun, a lot of people on the board, usually have high dosages. For me, i used 200mg of cyp, and had great results. Everyone is different. I work best with low dosages. If you train hard, on low dosages, you can make good gains. Hehe, 2thick bet me... [This message has been edited by bsjohnson (edited November 30, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 211 |
I've seen alot of newbies coming on the board lately, and their very first post is to jump the gun on using the juice... like said above from 2Thick, if you don't have your diet and training down, not to mention getting proper rest, your 'hopes' are going to go down the drain, and your wallet will be a couple pounds lighter than before. Nobody said anything will come easy bros, do your studying and research first before you go jabbin', and work your ass off in that gym! Have your plans and goals set, and set them right...to reach them! I think of juice as an "assist"... not something to soley depend or rely on!!!! ~BM~ ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 193 |
BM Good Points! | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 45 |
quote: It's a wonderful thing to see first hand that there are other purists out there who see the world of anabolic supplementation as I do. As much as it pains me to jump on the "moderator ass kissing bandwagon" here at Elite, I can't help but congradulate 2Thick on this. I can't help but snicker with evil glee when I see the jacked 20 yearolds loaded on gram after gram of sauce think there just the shit in my gym. If you guys get anything from Elite Fitness, please learn how truely insignificant all this chemical conversation is without a work ethic. Damn't I didn't see that I was posting my comment under my brother freakin nick name. Twisted_Steel apologizes to his larger brother, so dont freak out when you see this post under your name! Besides, no one would belive this sudden burst of eloquence came from you anyway. ------------------ [This message has been edited by PeanutButter (edited November 30, 2000).] | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1194 |
This is a very good point, many believe that if they take roids then the next morning they will look like ronnie Like 2thick said however i think training has a higher percentage ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
The best advice I can give to newbies is to lurk around on this board and read all the info you can. Use the search engine, it alone can answer many questions for you. Listen to what the mods and vets have to say and seriously think about what you are getting yourself into. It is a lifestyle and once you start, you rarely turn back. Read, reaserach, and be patient. Oh yeah...steriods aren't magic.  | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 47 |
so you mean after I take my first shot, when I wake the next morning I will not look like Arnold? Damn can I get a refund!!!LOL
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Freak 
Posts: 1566 |
NOW you tell me. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 130 |
Your comments are much appreciated 2thick and bs. 2thick, I'm somewhat limited in my choice of gear for my first time around. I have had MPB for about 3 or 4 years and have been using proscar for a couple of years- therefore, deca's out. Test is the only thing I can really control the sides with by using proscar, arimidex, etc. considering my hair issue. If you have any other suggestions, feel free to tell me. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 32 |
Like anything steriods are not going to make you a better person. It is you...If you work hard useing your mind and body Have harmony within yourself..If you are at ease with yourself..and work hard when thing dont seem to be happening the right way..Go to the gym..Pump some Iron..run...any type of exercise increses your energy level..And relieves stress. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
Good post Devistator. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 46 |
I agree 2thick. Except maybe more like this 40% food 25% BEANS 20% Rest 15% Training mk | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1181 |
BUMP...and I agree, I'n holding about a 30 pound gain off of a cycle that most of the guys on here would bridge with...goes to show what really matters...thanks 2Thick, you're a stand up guy! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
I know I'm late, but that is such a good point, bro! ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2931 |
Well.....Game on!!!!! First off, I do totally agree that AS no matter the kind or type is no magic, and yes...diet, training, intentsity, and rest are key factors above all else....BUT, in reguards to the test is not for newbies....I got to throw the BULLSHIT FLAG on this one Bro... Any 20 year old newbie got any serious sides from 500mg a week+/- of test....not hardly....Gyno...nope, unless you were stupid and did no research!!! Test is KING...always will be, and cannot be compared to by any other....Deca only cycles are expensive, and will leave you wanting more...period!!! With test, you know full well the sides, and they are in fact very easy and inexpensive to avoid completely. Test is the hormone that got us this far, and will take you beyond. I do not condone a gram a week for a novice/newbie, but I am against the almighty " 2Thicks Deca Dick Wonder Cycle "!! Why do I call it the wonder cycle....you wonder what happened to your dick...!! Progest. induced gyno from Deca is scary, and no anti-estrogen, nor non-competetive inhibitor(armidex) will combat it.. As well, Deca is by far the most overpriced, underdosed, and counterfeited AS on the market...True it has a grand reputation for alleviating sore joints, and tendons...but, the fact that it has very stubborn metabolites which can be detected on drug test for as long as 12 months must be considered. It has the affinity to bind to, and activated the progest. recepters...yup...gyno... Bottom line...got deca dick...add test, afraid of deca induced gyno...go with winny and up the price of the cycle... Go with test and grow, it should be the base for all stacks, nothing compares, and surely not deca...Long live the king....long live test... Ranger | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1133 |
Interesting views. I agree with 2thick on the lazy newbie's pumping a gram a week. I agree with RANGER (by the way you have mail) and his reluctance to endorse deca. I am not in love with it, but as an injured bro right now it may be on my menu for a while. Good thread regardless. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 212 |
I agree with you totally. About the break up of percentages, this is what I think: Diet 50% Eating is the most important followed by rest because this is where you body is fueled up and given the time to recover and grow. Training, anyone can train. Even if you slack off you will still gain something but the harder you train the more of an effect it will have but without the proper diet and rest training is worthless. Steroids is more of a boost of energy from my point of view. It makes you wanna train harder. This is my point of view and I'm sure everyone else has their own. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 37 |
Guys I've seen dudes at the gym that train like shit and still get jacked while on juice. I trained perfectly and ate perfectly when being natural but struggled to put ten pounds on my bench every 5 months or so. I say it's more like 50%Juice,25%Training,and 25%diet. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 530 |
I don't think you can say that diet: this percentage and training: equals that percentage. THE POINT IS YOU ARE DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, WITHOUT PUSSING OUT. you have to satisfy all of these factors 100% to make the most progress. gear may be defined differently because it is a foreign influence on your progress. yes the body makes it's own test... you know what I'm talking about. Gear aint a magic pill, but It's the closest thing out there. Fact is to be massive: you must dedicate yourself to it. gear or no gear. what 2thick is trying to say is that most folks are relying on there "supplements" to make the progress for them. when all the other factors, training, diet, sleep/rest are MORE IMPORTANT. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 71 |
I disagree with all of you. Steroids ARE magic, and i'm a sorcerer. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 39 |
Too hard to believe,what gears is 15% of your Gain,2Thick. Usually ,ratio of gear is 40-50%. K. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 365 |
I agree with everything you said 2thick except ..............gear is magic, especially test! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 515 |
Amen! Well said 2Thick. My grocery expenditures this winter are going to be scary! lol. ghans | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 483 |
GREAT THREAD!!!!!!!!! I gotta agree with RANGER. I dropped the Deca and added some of that Anobolic Pizza everyone was raving about a while back. No Deca dick No Gyno. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 99 |
Awesome post!! MANY people think juice will be a miracle drug-instantly.How untrue!!People come up to me all the time and ask questions about cycles and diets-but some people say "hey,I'm on 2 anadrols a day and 5 Sus a week " blah,blah...you can't even tell they workout!!!!This never ceases to amaze me.AS will even out a case of bad genetics!!I've seen some pretty amazing transformations in the gym with some people.EDUCATION IS KEY!!!!!! J | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 519 |
LEAVE IT TO 2THICK TO POST ANOTHER GOOD THREAD. WELL SAID 2THICK...ZEUS13 | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 386 |
not magic??? i took a shot of fina last week and ten minutes later pulled a rabbit out of my ass! If thats not magic than I dont know what is!! Its Friday, 2thick and I had to let that one out. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 288 |
those are all well said...diet is for sure #1 | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 56 |
what? you mean i gotta eat while im on this shit...and whats this lifting weights crap?
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 862 |
Here is a post I did last week: I have read so many posts on roids and how they make you bloated, how you should be bigger if you've done a cycle etc. Here is my view and I hope other users will comment too. First of all one cycle is not going to make you stacked. It will help you get past a sticking point in size and strength but you won't come off a 6-8 week cycle looking like Levrone. Also, growth does not come over night either does the mood swings etc. You notice gains slowly such as you may lift chest and notice that now you can do 8 reps where last week you did 6. The mood swings are dependant on the person. I got moddy off clomid, I felt like a girl with PMS, that shit makes you want to cry. Roids did nothing. If you are a cock when you drink etc, you probably will be a cock on a cycle. The bloat you all talk about is due to water weight gain. It goes away and depends on the drug you are on. I have never had a problem. Most of the pros are on way different cycles than a guy who shoots a little test and a little deca. The pros are so big already and maxed out in size that they do huge amounts or most often GH and insulin to make them grow. Test does not do a lot when you are already 250 pounds and been on cycle on and off for years. Newbies and youngsters should not take cycles for 2 reasons. You need a foundation and it needs to be maxed out before needing roids, and youngsters are so full of test already that they have more than enough compared to a guy who is say 30 or so. I was on a cycle when I met my latest girlfriend and she did not even know. No sick sides etc. She did notice that I was like a 16 year old boy who is horny all the time and can do it several times a night. Roids are not a miracle in a pill or syringe. You still have to eat a shitload and lift hard or they won't work. To me they are simply a supplement that actually works unlike all the shit on the market that you pay too much for. I can get a bottle of test for $45 or get some bullshit muscletech for the same price and gain nothing but a stomach ache. OK, I am sick of typing now. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 193 |
Good info, MP5 | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 478 |
2Thick- Good thread bro, has started some good discussion; but I think i'm going to go with RANGER on this. BTW. RANGER glad to see ya back bro, was in Jamaica for 8 days over Thanksgiving. I replied to a thread saying I would get you another batch of GHB if ya came back. hehehe Plates ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4771 |
Ranger, I don't think you can put together a sentence without 'testosterone' mentioned (if you can manage to form a sentence at all...lol). If you say that test is better than deca one more time, I will brand your ass with 'Deca Durabolin' when I come to visit. I am talking about all gear and not just test (which should not be used by newbies). Also, stop saying that Deca induces progesterone...it has not been scientifically proven! I have seen Nolva help with Deca gyno...so there you go. Finally Deca Dick is rare and all in your head. If you think you will get it, you will. Test will always be a 2nd choice to DECA...KING DECA!!!!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 862 |
That is such bullshit that deca dick is in your head. I was having cock problems after a deca cycle before I heard of it. I also don't agree that newbies should not use test. I think test should be that base for any cycle, unless the user is young like 20 or younger. Deca dick is for real, but not everyone is affected by it! | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4771 |
Deca Dick and highly psychosematic and it is caused by cycling Deca-only cycles in the wrong way. For example, if you don't pyramid then you have a much higher chance of Deca dick. If you don't taper at all then you are screwed! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 862 |
When I had it I started out on 200mgs a week went all the way up to around 500mg and then back. I think my last shot was 200mg. I was only stacking it with small amounts of test. i got deca dick bad. Nothing was moving until I took another shot of test and got some proviron. I even used a bunch of clomid. Not trying to be a cock 2thick, but I kind of disagree with you on this one. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1975 |
Hmmmmm...... I will continue to advise new users to combine test and deca. There is no need to go with very high doses of test for a first timer - it is important to underestand what the presence of AS will do to your body.....but at the same time, if you are experienced with training, and have done the proper research, then I don't see a problem with a nice test dose for the first cycle. It is the ignorant user who gets sides, and who wastes the AS in his system through poor training and diet habits. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2931 |
2Thick "n" The Skull, You and I both know that neither of us are going to back down from our views....nope! I would like to know where the information on deca not binding to, and activating the Progest. recepters is...??? Let's see it... I think E2 once posted a good cycle for newbies, which you branded a " Captain-Insane-O " cycle.....Deca has some redeeming qualities, this I do admit(few)....BUT, when you try to compare it to test, you need to seriously consider a U-Turn Bro... Everything considered, and doing one of your " Deca Wonder Cycles " what would you hope to gain in the end?? A whole 8 to 10 pounds.....Whew!!! Bring on the Mr. O ... !!! What would be the cost of this cycle?? Around 300 to 400$$ ..... Better off sticking with EAS Bro. For 200$, you can get twice that on a small dosage cycle of test, and keep most of the gains.....You cannot simply compare Deca to Test, it's a no win situation, and the Deca lovers shall always bow down to the " Gods of Test " Ranger's thoughts....If your a deca only lover, know your place in life, at the foot of the table snatching crumbs from the " Gods of Test " Game on...!!! Ranger | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 862 |
If I could only get one it would be test for sure! I love that stuff and it works fast. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1363 |
As a natty, for now, I'm not one to talk, but I'll say that I think the ratio is more like 40% gear, 40% diet, and 20% training. There are a couple jacked(asses) at my gym that don't train hard at all but still make good gains, and they talk about eating crap food as well... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 182 |
2Thick: Well said, but I think its not only how you eat and train when you are on Juice, but also how you eat and train when you are off it. I found it rather easy to gain size, when on roids, but the challenge comes to keeping the gains off cycle. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 130 |
Hindustan, I sent you an email a couple of weeks back. Please reply yaar. (If you didn't get it, I'll fire off another one) | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4771 |
Hindustan, Great point to bring up. It is important to keep up the diet and training (although modified) between cycles. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 654 |
Frakal. Let me ask you this. Could you imagine where those guys would be with an oxen like work ethic and a good diet. You get out of it what you put into it. If you don't invest anything you get no return. These are the lazy fucks 2thick speaks of. I think AS is a reward for the hard work and incredible determination one puts into thier training and diet. People who use AS as thier sole means to achieving thier gaols are weak minded and should be treated that way. People who dedicate themselves to the sport and do everything in thier power to see that they reach those goals some day deserve the repect. Gear enhances your hard work. The harder you work at it the more enhancement you will recieve. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 193 |
This needs to be seen by all members!!!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 673 |
THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST THREAD I HAVE SEEN IN MONTHS. EMAIL ME 2 THICK! | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 22 |
Hey, Being a newbie I feel I should input. I took 2Thicks advice for staying away from test for a first cycle, did Eq only for 8 weeks at 300mg, gained about 15 lbs, held onto 10lbs and kept my strength and such. MY next cycle I decided to try a little test, 1 amp of omna a week, and 2 vials of Norma Hellas Deca aweek for 8 weeks. Each cycle produced noticable gains, and it's really showed me what using gear is all about. I'm not sure what wuold have happened if i had started a deca/dbol/sust capt insano style for a first cycle, but whatever path the newbies choose, I reccomend using a mild dose just to see what it's about. Then once you're familiar with the training, eating, dedication that's required, then you'll always have plenty of gear and dosages to increase with. But I must say we should all be grateful for the good bros we got looking out for us, because regardless of opinions, they're just trying to help us better ourselves! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 243 |
*clapping hands*...well said indeed, Iron Bro... | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 22 |
Also, one more thing I should add, Is as far as low dosages are concerned, I know for a fact the majority of the newbies can't say they're at or close to their genetic potentials, I wont lie, I wasn't. That's why I think newbies can get some great gains off the milder steroids, and that's why I did. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 100 |
WHOA, I HIGHLY DISAGREE!!! If you took a steroid vergin and give him or her 1 gram of test a week for 8 weeks. And that person was on 2000 calories a day diet with .5 gram protein per body weight. Even WITHOUT lifting they would gain muscle! | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 22 |
Yes, but what would happen to the muscle after they stopped taking 1 gram of test.. and continued their 2000 calorie diet and .5 g of protein? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 515 |
This is a great thread. I agree with 2Thick, but also have to go with Ranger on the test. I am a BIG fan of test and results from it have been good. I am stacking test AND deca for my upcoming cycle. Best of both worlds. Eat lots and loads of protien, strict training and I hope to make great gains. Feel free to email me with personal opinions on this. Jon, Ranger, or other. I value your opinions. ghans | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 100 |
out of the 20 pounds they might gain they would keep about 10 if they had no hcg or clomid. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 57 |
BUMP FOR 2THICK. |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted November 30, 2000 08:32 PM
