i.e. 19-norandrostenediol with 4- or 5-Androstenediol.

I've never injected AS and don't currently plan on starting.

Just finished my 2nd prohormone cycle. Gained 15 lbs. in 2 months. Approximately 5 of that is fat.

Only prohormones iv'e used were from the bullshit company Muscletech; I used Anotesten and Nortesten and gained nothing except for a slight case of gyno.

Plates

Besides, that shit cost as much as AS in some cases!! I saw a bottle of some Norandroshit for around $110!! LOL...bro, you can get yourself nearly two Aratests for that much and believe me, it will work much better then that junk you are talking about.

At 36, I'm 6'0" - 220 lbs. Just hit my heaviest last week at 223 lbs. Been training seriously since around 18.

Again, this is my 2nd cycle, and both times my strength has sky-rocketed. I do find that my calorie intake must keep pace with the prohormone dosage, or else the strength doesn't come as fast or as much. Higher calories alone haven't done it for me. As soon as I added the prohormones to the high calories (highest is around 4000/day), then my strength goes way up.

All i ever heard was bad shit about them!
Never tried them myself! only cell-tech and that made me a blowfish and lost every ounce when i finished!

Lets ASSUME for the sake of making a point that this stuff really does work. You introduce a compound into your body which turns into TEST or NANDROLONE when enzymes in the blood react with it (that't the theory anyway) In doing this you have artificially increased hormone levels. You have merely used a (questionable) delivery method that is available legally due to a supplement law loophole.

How is this any different from shooting sust, cyp, enanthate etc.....it really is not.

Unfortunately this delivery method is much less certain, and often results in high aromitization (ie very high incidence of side effects relative to low degree of desired effects)

If you are going to ARTIFICIALLY MANIPULATE your hormone levels DO IT RIGHT. Use real compounds that have a greater certainty of results and side effects, and use the proper accessory drugs (Nolva, Clomid, Arimidex, etc). Don't go fooling yourself into thinking what you are doing is not steroid use because it is legal and you aren't sticking yourself....

Yes, I heard that 19-norandro turns into nandrolone in (via) the liver...........

The Placebo Effect ---- Could someone please explain that ? Are you saying that it is psychological ?

Makes sense. For a guy who needs a gram of test to grow anymore, what is a weak prohormone going to do? For argument's sake, say the prohormone is like taking 200mg/primobolan a week. Anyone whose done a cycle of AS won't grow well on a cycle composed of only weekly injections of 200mg of primo, period. So why would the andro work for them? It won't.

But for a virgin to gear, 200mg/primo might net him 5-10 pounds over a cycle. So might prohormones.

Just my theory on this. But if you take a look at the hundreds of posts on this stuff across all boards, the people who respond best were naturals, while users of AS gained nothing.

Should I be going to a different board for a discussion on prohormones, or is this the one ?

Stalker,

My question to you is why is the prohormone BETTER than 200mg primo?

If it is a question of legality, I can accept that. The prohormone is legal (for now!), and the primo is not.

Aside from wanting to comply with some arbitrarily drawn legal definition, there is no logic in the implication that a "steroid" is any less natural, or less safe than a prohormone. They are both hormone level effecting treatments.

All prohormones are is an attempt to deliver steroids to the body with a delivery method that can be sold over the counter.

You seem to imply that if they give the same gains, the prohormone would be the better choice. My point is that if the prohormone works the way they say it should, it IS a Steroid. Probably one that is LESS safe to use than PRIMO! As with any steroid, the side effects are usually proportional to the gains.

Lets say prohormones work for you (in your body these compounds, when acted upon by naturally occuring enzymes, aromotise to test, nadrolone, etc). Lets say you take high doses and get really elevated hormone levels. Do you think the gains that the elevated levels give will com without side effects just because you did not inject the stuff??

If you have any doubt that these compounds are meant to be legal steroids go to www.impactnutrition.com/research.html and see what William Llewellyn (the Anabolics 2000 guy) writes. The whole development approach these guys are using is "pick a steroid and see if we can create a compound that will aromotise to the desire steroid" then "see if we can justify it as a supplement".

Hormone Therapy is Hormone Therapy whether you use needles or not. If you think anything else, you are lying to yourself.

So, to get to Scotty's question: You are in the right spot, because the Bros on this board know much about hormone therapy (steroids) which is what you want to do, but really won't admit to yourself!

Maybe you misunderstood what I said. I never meant to take a side on which is better. As a matter of fact, I agree with you -- if both were legal and the same price, then the gear wins hands down. I also feel that a natural who uses prohormones is no longer natural in the "lifetime" sense of the word.

giantset

I wasn't trying to flame or argue. I just find it interesting that people will try to (#1) convince themselves that this stuff works, and (#2) convince themselves that because this stuff is legal, it won't have any of the side effects that steroids have.

People want the benefits of juice, but don't want deal with the personnal stigma of using.

------------------
100% Juice........Florida Orange

Side effect pills!...right on!

Your experience was similar to mine. Nips itched like mad! I got big time freaked and stopped cold! No real gains.

I am curious if your predisposition to these sided effects (gyno...) with prohormones was the same with gear. What real gear have you done, and did you have gyno related sides.