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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 +--Non-Supression Cycles--+
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| Author | Topic: +--Non-Supression Cycles--+ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 442 |
A friend of mine has been dieting. He, like myself, has great diet discipline. He used to look buff at 5'7" 160, 8% fat. Now that he got a good job and bigscreen TV, he shot up to 190 23%. Now he is approximately 185 21%. He has never juiced before (although, like me, he has studied it a lot) and he has asked for my thoughts for a cycle. He wants to start at 8% fat, which I think is a good idea. However, at best he would reach 8% in early April, and would probably only be 155. He does not respond to ECA, is not interested in DNP, clenbuterol, or thiomucase, but does get some benefit from yohimbine HCl. He is only really interested in doing a non-supression cycle, one that does not shut down natural test production. He is in love with the idea of Primo, and also with 2 week cycles. I told him that to put on serious muscle, a suprssion cycle is the way to go. But then I wondered; how about doing a non-supression cycle with a fairly severe reduced calorie diet? Here is an example of the cycle I'm considering. Week___Primo___Fina___Clomid 1______300_____225_____ 2______300_____225_____ 3______300_____________100ed 4______300______________50ed 5______300_____225_____ 6______300_____225_____ 7______300_____________100ed 8______300______________50ed Primo is well known for its suitability for reduced-calorie diets. Fina is known for being cleared from the system very quickly, and for not supressing natural testosterone production (HPTA axis) too badly. At no point should natural test production ever significantly drop while on this cycle. ------------------     | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 660 |
sorry bro but fina will highly suppress test levels. It is 3X as androgenic as testosterone. Primo is good but to gain the size and strenght, then he needs the fina, just make sure to have clomid. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 442 |
I've read a few places that fina does not supress badly. Estrogen tends to supress more than androgens in the short term, and since fina will not increase estrogen at these levels... One case study (by Bill Roberts, http://www.mesomorphosis.com/exclusive/pharmacology/vol02/990201.htm ) using more fina, and 50mg dianabol/day, found hardly and supression. They also used cytadren as an antiestrogen (not my first choice) and clomid. They did use the clomid 50mg eod (not just post-fina) which I am considering for my friend. Peace! ------------------ | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4590 |
Dr.Atlas-The key in that Bill Roberts study is the LENGTH of that cycle,which was limited to two weeks.Leutenizing hormone output is not compromized to any great degree with ANY substance,if it has cleared the system by day 14.Androgens,if used for any period over a couple of weeks,will most certainly cause ANDROGENIC inhibition.The only exeptions to this rule are primobolan and oxandrolone.Fina,with its highly androgenic nature,would certainly cause suppression if used longer than two weeks. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 442 |
Just as I thought Huck. What are your impressions on the fat-loss capabilities of this stack/diet? ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4590 |
It is a classic cutting combo that would work quite well in a calorie-restricted environment,no question about it.Throw in some winstrol and it would be even more effective from a synergistic standpoint. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 122 |
Is fina then really the best choice for short cycles? I used fina for a short (3week cycle) and lost more size and strength afterwards than with a d-bol only cycle. Next time I use fina it will be stacked and taken for a longer period with clomid afterwards. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 442 |
According to Roberts (who is generally recognized to know his stuff) a 3 week cycle is as good as a 10 week cycle for shutting down natural test production. Fina is great for short cycles because it clears so quickly, but any "short" cycle should be no longer than 2 weeks. Fina d-bol and test should be a nice stack for a supression cycle, toss in some deca/eq and some winny and you should be hitting every receptor and non-receptor mechanism. Peace! ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 3422 |
Damn I hate to get to the discussion table late everything is allready talked about. Thanks for waitting Bros LOL Huck stop telling everybody the anwsers. ------------------ Lift | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 477 |
Dr.Atlas, youre friend should think of doing GH for his perpuses and from what you told no dnp etc',these would work good for him. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 127 |
not to mention the hairloss due to fina and primo... they are both harsch on the hairline | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 442 |
He is already bald as a cueball, naturally, age 26. I asked him about GH, he is a little leary of it. Thanks tho. Peace! |
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posted November 19, 2000 09:38 PM