x
Almost there! Please complete this form and click the button below to gain instant access.
EliteFitness.com FREE Email Series: How You Can Use Winstrol, Masteron, HGH, and Testosterone for a Perfect, Muscular Physique!
- -
We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe.
- -
  Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
   Anabolic Discussion Board
  TESTOSTERONE EXPERTS!!!!

Post New Topic  
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

Author Topic:   TESTOSTERONE EXPERTS!!!!
pittsburgh*

Novice

Posts: 2
From:CA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted November 08, 2000 08:51 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


We know that test suspension on a mg per mg basis contains more test than something like test enanthanate...
how much actually test would be in 100mg(100mg/ml) of:
1.Suspension...100mg(we know this already due
.....................to no ester)
2.Propionate...???
3.Phenyl-propionate...???
4.Cypionate...???
5.Enanthanate...???

hope this wasnt too confusing.


Click Here to See the Profile for pittsburgh*   Click Here to Email pittsburgh*     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
BigPapaPump

Moderator

Posts: 1869
From:
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 08, 2000 09:36 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Huh ?

The designation of any gear in a mg / ml indicates its strength.

SO if you're asking if test prop @100mg/ml has more test than test eth @100mg/ml, the answer is that they're both rated as the same strength.

No which one is more effective is a whole other story.

BPP


Click Here to See the Profile for BigPapaPump   Click Here to Email BigPapaPump     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 39254017   Reply w/Quote
harmonic

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 322
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted November 08, 2000 09:50 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


mg is basically the same a strengh.. Wow!! Now I'm a test expert

[This message has been edited by harmonic (edited November 08, 2000).]


Click Here to See the Profile for harmonic     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
pittsburgh*

Novice

Posts: 2
From:CA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted November 08, 2000 10:05 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Pappa...i disagree..when it says TESTOSTERONE ENANTHANATE 200MG/ML..they are counting the enanthanate ester in that 200mg..there is not 200mg of testosterone per ml!


Click Here to See the Profile for pittsburgh*   Click Here to Email pittsburgh*     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
the truth

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 914
From:
Registered: Jun 2000

posted November 08, 2000 10:12 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


BPP, Pittsburgh is correct--the longer the fatty acid chain in the ester, the less of the AAS in the compound. Free test (ie suspension) would have the most of the base molecule in it, as there is no ester attached. As for specific amounts, I don't know the exact figures, but there was a thread on Renegade devoted to this some months back--you might try a search there..


Click Here to See the Profile for the truth   Click Here to Email the truth     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
Dr.Atlas

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 420
From:Grand Rapids, MI USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 08, 2000 10:16 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Damn I feel like an ass contradicting you BPP, since usually you are right. This time though, I gotta agree with Pitts and truth. There is a link around elite here that gives the weight of the various esters. Peace!

------------------
Learning medicine for the benefit of the Iron Brothers (and Sisters, God bless them)


Click Here to See the Profile for Dr.Atlas   Click Here to Email Dr.Atlas     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
lawnsaver

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 563
From:FL
Registered: Sep 2000

posted November 08, 2000 10:19 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I only know one of the esters. Enanthate ester takes up 28mg per 100. This info is stated in the test supension section of Anabolics 2000. So there is more raw test in the shorter acting esters.


Click Here to See the Profile for lawnsaver   Click Here to Email lawnsaver     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
Spunky

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 708
From:USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted November 08, 2000 10:44 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I believe this link will assist.....
http://www.steraloids.com/trivindx.html


Click Here to See the Profile for Spunky   Click Here to Email Spunky     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 479
From:
Registered: 2000

posted November 08, 2000 11:47 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Propionate = 84mg of test/100mg
Cypionate = 70mg of test/100mg
Enanthate = 72mg of test/100mg
Phenylpropionate = 66mg of test/100mg


Click Here to See the Profile for cockdezl     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
BigPapaPump

Moderator

Posts: 1869
From:
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 10, 2000 02:38 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I still don't understand the question !

BPP


Click Here to See the Profile for BigPapaPump   Click Here to Email BigPapaPump     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 39254017   Reply w/Quote
instynct999

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 104
From:
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 10, 2000 03:37 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Big Papa--

In any esterified compound such as most injectable anabolics (except suspensions)the ester is part of the molecule...ie. Test enanthate is a base of testosterone esterified with the medium-length enanthate chain that yields the desired half-life of the compound approximately 5-7 days. The longer the chain the longer the half-life. Acetate and prop are short and fast acting, enan, cyp, medium, decanoate, undecyclenate a bit longer and thus longer half-life. When a vial says 100mg of Test enan. it is 100mg of that molecule and the enanthate ester comprises a portion (28%) of that molecule so of the 100mg of T enan only 72mg are testosterone. In suspensions where there is no ester 100mg is 100mg so really if you do 1 gram/week enanthate it is technically 720 grams of test, whereas propionate being a smaller chain ester is about 840 and suspension would be a full 1000mg...it can become a somewhat substantial difference. Of course not all product have what they claim anyway..T200 is supposed to be 200mg/ml T enan, but usually runs between 150-175mg/ml and so one should take that into account there. The shit is also underdosed in total mls usually averaging like 8.5 mls. Comprende???

later

[This message has been edited by instynct999 (edited November 10, 2000).]


Click Here to See the Profile for instynct999     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
Monster

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 478
From:Michigan, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted November 10, 2000 04:13 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I think the important thing is the anabolic effect involved. A long chain ester has a higher degree of anabolic effect than a short chain ester. Sometimes not by much, sometimes by a lot, and thats what matters! The longer the substance is active in the body, the greater the degree of anabolism you can get from it. If 100mg of suspension shoots through your system like lightning, and you arent able to grab every molecule of it and fasten it to a receptor, then you arent utilize the entire dosage. But if you use a long chain ester like undeconate (11 carbons), then its in your system longer and youre able to utilizre it more completly by giving your body time to grab every available molecule floating around.
Using nandralone as an example, a proprionate ester (with 3 carbons) would break down fairly quick and clear the body with an anabolic versus androgenic rating of 10:1. But an undeconate (11 carbons) would hang on and would have a ratio of 32:1!
So in some ways this is a slap in the face to the "Test is Test" theory. test IS test, but deesterification makes some a little different, I guess it depends on what your specific goals are...

------------------

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy


Click Here to See the Profile for Monster   Click Here to Email Monster     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 35077339   Reply w/Quote
cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 479
From:
Registered: 2000

posted November 10, 2000 05:20 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


MONSTER. I am confused by your post. Where did you get this anabolic/androgenic ratio for nandrolone esters:

"Using nandralone as an example, a proprionate ester (with 3 carbons) would break down fairly quick and clear the body with an anabolic versus androgenic rating of 10:1. But an undeconate (11 carbons) would hang on and would have a ratio of 32:1!"

Using testosterone as the base drug, all references show that the ratio remains 1:1 no matter the ester, or non-ester, even methyltest remains 1:1. This shows that it is the base not the ester that is what is relevant.

In the case of short vs. long esters, you change the pharmacokinetics, since short esters are released faster and therefore excreted faster. This however does not affect it's potency, since one compensates for this rapid excretion with more frequent administrations. In reality, you get higher peak levels with equivalent concentrations, i.e. 200mg of test. propionate should give higher peak levels in the body than 200mg of enanthate, only prop will be removed at a faster rate, thus the need for earlier injections. For better blood levels, the long acting esters should have a high loading dose, followed by lower weekly or twice weekly injections.


Click Here to See the Profile for cockdezl     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
The Shadow

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 295
From:Georgia
Registered: Oct 2000

posted November 10, 2000 05:32 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Pittsburgh - actually you are correct. The ester weight must be taken into account. It is not; however, enough to worry about.

------------------
Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It realizes that it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed.
Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It realizes that it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve to death.

The moral?

It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up - you had better be running.


Click Here to See the Profile for The Shadow   Click Here to Email The Shadow     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
jocko

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 291
From:Las Vegas, NV USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted November 10, 2000 06:55 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


www.elitefitness.com/articles/esters.html


Click Here to See the Profile for jocko     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
Monster

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 478
From:Michigan, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted November 11, 2000 06:48 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Cockdezl: Opps, I didnt check this post, so I didnt see your reply... my bad...
Well, the ratios come from the United States Pharmacopiel Convention, USP: Drug Information for the HEalth Care Proffesional.

But the ester IS relevant in a lot of ways! A long chain ester is more lipophilic (meaning a higher partition coefficient) and is going to be absorbed preferentially by a lipohilic organ (skeletal muscle). Whereas a short chain ester will still go to skeletal muscle, but will also adhere to less lipophilic organs (skin, prostate and such).
This doesnt make a real big difference to us either way in the end, as more frequent dosing of short chain esters make up for the longer chains being in the system longer.
Most of this is just "interesting" really, and is more than most people need to know to make gains. Undeconate is kind of a freaky ester anyway. Most of the other esters are within a point or two of each other as far as their ratio goes. But either way, its just sort of interesting...


Click Here to See the Profile for Monster   Click Here to Email Monster     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 35077339   Reply w/Quote
Donald Smoot

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 149
From:
Registered: Aug 2000

posted November 12, 2000 12:05 AM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Monster, I'm not sure if you got it quite right. The ester has no effect on how long a receptor has a chance to use a steroid. The longer ethnate molecule will not persist in blood for more time then the shorter acetate molecule. The ester has the sole effect of delaying the time the molecule stays dissolved in oil. Once an ethenate or any ester is out of oil and in blood, an enzime removes the ester within minutes and until then the steroid is inert. This is why trenbalone acetate taken by dmso needs to be done twice/day while if you inject it with oil eod works well. If one had laurabolin powder and wished to use it with dmso, it would need to be applied twice/day as well. The steroid esters of all types persist in blood for only a few minutes before the ester is gone and the steroid becomes active.It is then absorbed by tissue or deactivated in the liver in about an hour. While still disolved in oil the ester is protected and the steroid inactive.


Click Here to See the Profile for Donald Smoot   Click Here to Email Donald Smoot     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 479
From:
Registered: 2000

posted November 12, 2000 12:42 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


SMOOT, you took the words out of my mouth.


Click Here to See the Profile for cockdezl     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  
Hop to:

�2016 EliteFitness.com. All rights reserved.