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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Proviron/Dosage--SGBH binding effect
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| Author | Topic: Proviron/Dosage--SGBH binding effect | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 356 |
those of you who, like me, have used proviron in the past prob feel as i do--we love the stuff! its an excellent addition to any cycle... my question is one of dosages. currently im using 50mg/day proviron split dosage. this is my first cycle in five long months as ive been focusing on the rehabilitation of a shoulder injury recieved in a bike accident. im one week into my cycle, feeling fuller and up 5lbs (water-dbol). cycle consists of (at this time) using the proviron mainly for its ability to bind to SGBH and to take care of excess water retention/estrogen conversion. whats an optimal dosage of proviron/day? would 25mg/day offer me any benifit or should i keep the dosage at 50mg/day.......... Unity66     | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
i think the 50mg/Day is good , i wouldnt use less unless price or availabilty was a factor . Ps. thanks for that other info , it worked out great !! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 356 |
glad to hear all worked out bro  anyone else have an opinion on this........ | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4485 |
50mg/daily is the norm.... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 113 |
Are you saying that you use the proviron for making yoru cycle MORE effective, because the proviron binds to the SHBG and therefore dislaces your other steroids to the steroids receptors? I always thought that proviron had a high bidning affinity to the androgen receptors and would have the opposite effect (reduce the number of receptors available for the other steroids). What makes you think that the proviron will bind more to the SHBG and the other steroids will selectively bind to the steroids receptors? I don't see any reason for this but if it is true it would be great and I will start using proviron myself. Can you tell me the reasoning behind this? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 380 |
what kinda of bike do you have, thats a good cycle--unfortunately thats the one i was on in the middle of when i laid my bike down; i have a '99'SUZUKI GSX-R ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1139 |
Asia, plasma cells serve a multitude of functions however their presence will impede upon the effectivity of exogenous anabolic/androgenic steroids. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin possesses a high binding affinity towards those frew flowing androgens administered through exogenous sources. Anyone considering cycles with a high anabolic/androgenic ratio, I.E. primobolan depot or Deca only, should make it a point to incoorporate Proviron 50mg daily. ------------------  | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 42 |
I came across this and I am posting it to stimulate the discussion. Paul Cribb, D.H.Sci. HMS AST Sports Science, Director of Research Testosterone circulates in plasma largely bound to plasma proteins, primarily albumin and testosterone binding-globulin (TeBG). This is the sex hormone binding globulin you are referring to. TeBG is a b-globulin composed of nonidentical subunits, about 95 000 Daltons (a pretty big, complex molecule). In men, only about 2% of testosterone is unbound in vitro tests of peripheral blood where, 44% is bound to TeBG and 54% is bound to albumin. Albumin has about 1000-fold lower affinity for testosterone but about 1000-fold greater binding capacity, so basically the affinity product is similar. The proportion of testosterone (or estrogen for that matter) bound to the TeBG fraction is proportional to its concentration. However, the amount of hormone available for entry into cells depends on the given organ, as a function of capillary transit time, dissociation rate from the binding protein and the endothelial membrane permeability. Interestingly, studies of invivo tissue delivery of testosterone show nearly all of the albumin bound testosterone is actually available for brain uptake. Also interesting is that estrogen disassociates from TeGB much faster than testosterone and TeBG levels are about one-third in men what they are in women. In healthy men, (men with intact hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis) any increase or decrease in TeBG levels does not affect tissue delivery of testosterone in the steady state. In fact, any change in levels of TeBG have a much more profound affect on estrogen delivery. Therefore as you can see, there are so many variables to take into account and, this mechanism of testosterone delivery to tissues is such a tightly regulated process. Even if you could magically increase free testosterone levels for prolonged periods of time this actually appears to have little effect in the whole scheme of things. The irony is also that measurement of free or bioactive hormones via latest technology- radioimmunoassays or even the whiz bang immunometric assays only give an indication, or clue, to the bioactivity of the hormone. These tests only measure the first step of hormonal action - the binding of the protein to the receptor, they do not assess the affects of interactions in generating a second messenger or initiating a specific response. I am only touching on the science here, however you get the picture that this idea of these "experts" is a "crock of shit" or, if in fact you had some way of achieving this, you would probably end up with higher estrogen levels than a 6 month pregnant woman! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 125 |
not related to your proviron, but good to see we got some bikers in here, i just got a 2000 zx-6r 3 months ago. its a trip. mike ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 113 |
I still don't get it. You have established that most free flowing androgens are bound to shbg and only a little of it is left. However, I don't see why shbg will specifically bind to proviron rather than, as said above, proportionately bind to both proviron and steroids based on the concentration in the blood. You haven't explained why the proviron will be what is bound to the shbg, while the other AS will be left free. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 457 |
The idea that mesterolone binds avidly to SHBG is found in this reference: Endocrinology 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6 "Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin." Saartok T, Dahlberg E, Gustafsson JA It is unclear whether anabolic steroids act on skeletal muscle via the androgen receptor (AR) in this tissue, or whether there is a separate anabolic receptor. When several anabolic steroids were tested as competitors for the binding of [3H]methyltrienolone (MT; 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-4,9,11-estratrien-3-one) to the AR in rat and rabbit skeletal muscle and rat prostate, respectively, MT itself was the most efficient competitor. 1 alpha-Methyl-5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (1 alpha-methyl-DHT; mesterolone) bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) [relative binding affinity (RBA) about 4 times that of DHT]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids bound strongly to the AR in skeletal muscle and prostate [ RBAs relative to that of MT: MT greater than 19-nortestosterone ( NorT ; nandrolone) greater than methenolone (17 beta-hydroxy-1-methyl-5 alpha-androst-1-en-3-one) greater than testosterone (T) greater than 1 alpha-methyl-DHT]. In other cases, AR binding was weak (RBA values less than 0.05): stanozolol (17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha- androstano [3,2-c]pyrazol-17 beta-ol), methanedienone (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-1,4-androstadien-3-one), and fluoxymesterolone (9 alpha-fluoro-11 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-T). Other compounds had RBAs too low to be determined (e.g. oxymetholone (17 beta-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstan-3-one) and ethylestrenol (17 alpha-ethyl-4- estren -17 beta-ol). The competition pattern was similar in muscle and prostate, except for a higher RBA of DHT in the prostate. The low RBA of DHT in muscle was probably due to the previously reported rapid reduction of its 3-keto function to metabolites, which did not bind to the AR [5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol and its 3 beta-isomer (3 alpha- and 3 beta-adiol, respectively)]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids (only a few synthetic) bound to SHBG (1 alpha-methyl-DHT much greater than DHT greater than T greater than 3 beta-adiol greater than 3 alpha-adiol = 17 alpha-methyl-T greater than methenolone greater than methanedienone greater than stanozolol). The ratio of the RBA in rat muscle to that in the prostate (an estimate of the myotrophic potency of the compounds) was close to unity, varying only between about 0.4 and 1.7 in most cases. Whether or not there is a significant displacement of bound steroids from the SHBG, with the addition of mesterolone is not known. Some synthetic steroids have been shown to have very little binding of SHBG, such as 7-methylnortestosterone. |
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posted November 04, 2000 08:34 PM
