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  THE NEXT STEP.............insulin & GH

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Author Topic:   THE NEXT STEP.............insulin & GH
MONSTROSITY

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 681
From:SIX FEET UNDER
Registered: Mar 2000

posted November 03, 2000 11:04 PM

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I have seen a lot of guys get big from AS and they thought they had just about reached their potential until they turned to the insulin and GH. They blew up like dolls. I would like to hear from the bros that have used the aforementioned, was it worth it? Any bad sides.........


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lawnsaver

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 478
From:FL
Registered: Sep 2000

posted November 03, 2000 11:10 PM

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I did a gh/sus/t3(4 weeks) stack for 10 weeks. I lost 6 lbs and my bf went from 18% to 9%. It totally transformed my body. I wish I would have added the insulin, but I was a pussy. Insulin is supposed to be the key to that stack. I did not have any sides, I didnt grow a large forehead or grow 2 inches taller


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daveyboy

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 352
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted November 03, 2000 11:15 PM

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insulin can make a big difference in gains but i won't suggest it for everyone. if oyu are going to take insulin make sure you read everything you can on it first.

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eddy

Cool Novice

Posts: 35
From:Husker in Kansas
Registered: Mar 2000

posted November 03, 2000 11:58 PM

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T3 and insulin are needed to get the most out of GH. If you are going to use this stack you should know EVERYTHING obout all three. You should also take into consideration that if you are going to mess with insulin that you are going to need to constantly monitor your blood glucose levels just like a diabetic. This stack can make a world of difference if you do it all just right. If you don't do it just right you will wast a lot of money and could end up in a coma.


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b fold the truth

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 84
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted November 04, 2000 03:02 AM

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About to start my insulin in the next few weeks. Gonna start very very small and probably stay that way just to see how it goes and how I adjust to it.

B True


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ironmaster

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 483
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted November 04, 2000 04:30 AM

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Don't get me wrong here, Monstrosity, I have used GH and I am just now starting a cycle of insulin and GH, but always stacked with anabolics - I was never sure just how much the GH contributed to the gains. Check this out, written by one of the leading growth hormone researchers in the world:

GH and The Athlete

I've never been sure why the use of GH has become popular in athletes and bodybuilders. Perhaps it's the name� Growth Hormone. Sounds like it'll make me big. Or perhaps it's the legend of Pump de Leon. Either way, the research on GH use in bodybuilders and men on resistance training programs has shown it to be all but useless. And this is probably due to the feedback mechanisms like the negative feedback on the pituitary and the GH resistance discussed earlier.

In two landmark GH studies conducted at the Washington University School of Medicine, a world-renowned GH researcher named Kevin Yarasheski studied the effects of GH in combination with weight training (Yarasheski 1992, 1993).

In the first study, 18 untrained men were given either GH and exercise or placebo and exercise for 12 weeks. GH subjects were given 40 micrograms/kg of recombinant GH and all subjects were evaluated before and after treatment for fat mass, fat free mass, total body water, whole body protein synthesis, insulin sensitivity, muscle size and muscle strength. Due to the development of carpal tunnel syndrome, 2 subjects were forced to withdraw from the study.

When comparing the GH+exercise group with the placebo+exercise group, the data showed that there was no fat loss, no change in insulin sensitivity, no increase in muscle size, and no increase in strength! Whole body protein synthesis was increased in the GH group relative to the placebo, but muscle protein synthesis wasn't. In addition, lean body mass was increased, but again, this wasn't muscle mass, but probably a combination of water retention, organ mass, and connective tissue instead. The researchers, who seemed quite objective in their conclusions, decided that non-muscle proteins were being formed instead of muscle contractile protein.

In the follow-up study, Dr. Yarasheski pursued the effects of GH on experienced weight-lifters. Since the GH didn't positively impact strength or body comp in the untrained guys, Dr. Yarasheski wondered if well-trained athletes might be different. So another study was conducted to examine protein synthetic rates in GH-treated athletes. After 2 weeks of GH treatment (40micrograms/kg), the data were clear that short term GH had no effect on whole body protein synthesis or breakdown. The reason they chose 2 weeks was that in a number of previous studies on clinical populations, any increases in protein synthesis had only lasted for about a month and then ceased due to some type of down-regulation (Perhaps GH insensitivity?). In this population, however, GH didn't even promote protein synthesis within this time frame.

With all this negative data, it should be mentioned that one study showed something positive happening, but again, it wasn't all that exciting (Crist 1988). This particular study showed a small 4% gain in lean body mass and a modest 12% loss in body fat with GH doses of 8IU per day (2.6 milligrams). Muscle mass wasn't measured, so there was no way to determine the make-up of the increased LMB (lean body mass).

So it's pretty apparent that in weight trained men, GH alone doesn't increase muscle mass. Resulting lean mass gains from GH treatment are probably a combo of water, connective tissue, or organ mass. I say probably because organ mass and connective tissue mass are hard to measure. The indirect evidence is pretty strong, though.

Since non-muscle protein gains and the development of carpal tunnel syndrome (due to growth in the connective tissue sheath in the wrist) were apparent in these studies, connective tissue gain is a reasonable speculation. In addition, acromegaly patients have increased organ mass as a result of the high responsiveness to GH, so it would stand to reason that this could have occurred in these studies, too.

The next logical question is this: Since a lot of guys are still using GH, what are the implications of increased organ mass and connective tissue? Well, to be honest, we don't know.

Just food for thought, there, big man. BTW, the same scientist says that with IGF-1, there was significant muscle mass gains from GH, but E2 tells me it is so unstable (IGF-1) as to be impracticle to obtain.


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rainhorn

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 352
From:somewhere
Registered: Mar 2000

posted November 04, 2000 11:16 AM

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ironmaster ,i asked you that the first time you posted it did they make use with insulin?
what was the whight of the subjects(gh intake formula stands direactly with person mass)?
as for the IGF-1 this the i repeat the ingredeiant to gain musacle mass only ,stacked with gh insulin and t3 nothing compare to it.


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