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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 HUCKHUCK
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| Author | Topic: HUCKHUCK | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 76 |
i know you are a fan of clomid post cycle, can u tell me what your reasoning is behind that because all my boys are fans of clomid eod and i want to show em your point of view, they figure it is a mild anti-estrogen and it will make sure our nuts dont shrink, thanks for the help man ------------------
[This message has been edited by Deppnade (edited November 03, 2000).]     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 174 |
Bump for Huck | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 636 |
Well, I'm not Huck, but people do take it during a cycle for it's anti estrogen properties and not so much for keeping "your balls full" More importantly you need to take it post cycle regardless. Bump for Huck's in depth point of view. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1407 |
Who's There. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 918 |
Bump for Senor Huckleberry/Juice Willis, LOL! ------------------ | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4469 |
Well,let's examine how exactly clomid works in restoring test.When exogenous androgens are introduced into the system,very often there is a dramatic rise in estrogen levels.This estrogen binds to receptors on both the hypothalamus as well as the pituitary.The hypothalamus as a result of this discontinues its production of leutenizing-hormone-releasing-hormone(L-H-R-H)which in turn shuts off production of leutenizing hormone(LH)from the pituitary.Well,leutenizing hormone is what signals the leydig cells in the testicles to produce more testosterone.Hence with the first two glands inhibited,no production in endogenous(naturally occurring)testosterone will occur.Back to clomid--Clomid binds to ESTROGEN receptor on the hypothalamus and pituitary,not ANDROGEN receptors.So if you have a moderate to heavy level of ANDROGENS in your system,it is likely that test inhibition is being caused just as much through ANDROGENIC pathways as it is ESTROGENIC pathways.This is where taking clomid will be a moot point,as it will do nothing against ANDROGENIC inhibition of test.Only post cycle,when androgen levels begin to return to normal,and there's the typical elevated estrogen levels that seem to drag on,will clomid work its magic in kicking the hypothalamus and pituitary back into drive,by binding to the estrogen receptors on them and sending the signal for them to start producing L-H-R-H, and L-H,respectively.Hope this is understandable  [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited November 03, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 682 |
is clomid good then? ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
For POST cycle restoration,nothing else beats it. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1407 |
Why do you say that Huck? | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
Well I certainly am unaware of anything which re-sensitizes the H-P-T-A as well as it does,POST cycle.Do you know something I don't? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1407 |
Ape look up 3 posts now down 2. You see those questions? You see who posted them? We're just fuckin with ya. heh heh | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
HEE-HEE I love you ulter,and not in a homo-type of way-LOL!!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1407 |
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 682 |
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
Bump for my bro Deppnade..... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 167 |
Whats wrong with using clomid EOD throughout a cycle? WOnt it help keep the hptafunctioning(somewhat) so it doesnt take as long to return to normal post cycle? I was gonna use EOD On my Fina/dbol cycle. Should i change it? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1235 |
Huck, your knowledge is unbelievable. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
Huck, you are a guru like no other, did you go to some college that i dont know about that gave a course in steroids 101? thanks for all your input man
GOD MADE MEN, STEROIDS MADE GODS | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 106 |
God made men, steroids made Gods!!! I like that....Anyway I've been told clomid is good to use on a cutting cycle!?! Never tried it personally. The only drugs I really use are D-Bol, Sus, Cyp, Deca...thinking about trying propionate and Fina cycled with some HGH. Heard so many good things about it. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
Huck, now that the clomid issue is out of the way, what are your thoughts for taking nolva during a cycle?or just wait till you feel the coming of gyno?cause without the clomid arent you not taking anything at all to prevent gyno?? cause i am doing my 1rst cycle in a couple weeks, and it is exactly this aratest dbol eq peace to the gawds | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
I personally play it safe rather than sorry,and take 20mgs/daily of nolvadex during the cycle,all the way up to the point that I begin clomid therapy,post cycle.I feel that 20mgs daily is very efficient at combating gyno,and doesn't cut into my gains much,if at all. [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited November 03, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 682 |
same apply for me huck with the nolva? ------------------ | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 9 |
Gee Huck, you must have been reading my notes compiled the last 6 years. just kidding. You're the first person besides Bill Reynolds that I've met that understands this theory. What's your opinion on adding HCG for two weeks in the middle of a heavy cycle to prevent the testicles from shrinking too much? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1407 |
HCG? Take 1000IU/day for 10 days. It works great. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 255 |
I agree with the nolvadex use during cycle. Ive been taking 10-20mg EOD throughout my cycle. My gains have been incredible. I DONT think nolvadex is detremental to gains! | ||
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Guru
Posts: 3265 |
Whats clomid???????? ------------------ Lift | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
Advisor-My man Ulter is right on.Short bursts of HCG,Once at week three,and once at week six of a cycle,are highly effective at stimulating the testes to grow.Just make sure that you are taking nolvadex in conjunction with it,as it elevates estrogen levels,as well as testosterone.Therealj,yep-hit the nolva all the way up to the point you begin post cycle clomid therapy. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
Bump this bad boy up for my bros.... | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5348 |
ARRGHHHHHHHH!!!! I'm pulling my hair out!!!!!! DOn't use that horrible word on this board, it has no place at all in bodybuilding, stay away from it, yes that horrible worst of all three letter word!!!! DO NOT USE HCG! PERIOD!!!! NEVER EVER EVER! There is no need for it at all and taking makes absolutely no sense at all. H_ _ Produces just as much estrogen as it does testosterone and it does nothing to help restart your hpta!!! Huck your post was accurate and it's nice to see others know what they're talking about, now as for during a cycle, take clomid eod 50mg! The novaldex yes is good for preventing gyno but there are other estrogen induced side effect you want to ward off during a cycle, as in water retention, added adipose tissue etc... Now Novaldex is breat tissue specific, while you may be taking 20mg a day other estrogen receptors in your body are still free to pick up estrogen. In order to combat this, i reccoment clomid at 50mg ed or eod, this also keeps your htpa in order never allowing it to shut down no matter how much test or anabolics you're taking! This is incredibly beneficial at the end of a cycle, it leaves you with no need to taper drugs and allows your to drop test doses faster without worrying about crashing. Now if you're like me and you've got a hate hate relationship wiht estrogen you'll take arimidex 1mg ed during all cycles. Something which i've started recently after reading the prescribing information at www.arimidex.com. Taking 1mg ed will block the 5aromatase enzyme and reduce estrogen in yoru body by up to 80%!!!! So 50 mg clomid ed or eod during cycle [This message has been edited by E2 (edited November 04, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1407 |
"50 mg clomid ed or eod during cycle 1mg arimidex ed during cycle and post cycle 100mg.day clomid for 2 weeks post cycle 50mg.day clomid for another 2 weeks post cycle after the 100mg/day regimin Novaldex used as needed(which it won't be)" So where does the HCG go here? | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
E2-Simply understanding the processes of how clomid works,how can you say it will not allow H-P-T-A function to shut down?Through ESTROGENIC pathways this may be true,but when ANDROGENS have flooded your system,there is not one thing clomid can do to halt inhibition via this route,you are going to be in a state of ANDROGENIC SUPPRESSION,irregardless of how many clomid you are popping,until ANDROGEN levels begin to return to normal.I have no argument as clomid being used as an anti-estrogen(although I feel that nolvadex is more selective in breast tissue),but to combat H-P-T-A suppression DURING an ANDROGEN-laden cycle just doesn't add up,based on the FACTS of how this drug executes its actions.POST-cycle,it is untouchable..... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1235 |
E2, please don't pull your hair out. Roids can do that for you. LOL But seriously, 1 mg Arimidex a day ? Isn't that overkill ? ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5348 |
Huck what we're talking about is keeping your natural testosterone production up, as we all know it's supressed when your hpta goes down, when your anterior pituitary stops sending lh to your testes, and they cannot produce test as teh lh is a key factor in this process. Now taking the clomid will in fact keep your anterior pituitary producing lh and hence your balls producing test. So no matter what levels of androgens or estrogens you have in your body taking clomid 50mg ed will keep your natural testosterone production going! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 167 |
Bump to finish this off | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
How does clomid do this,when ANDROGENS are aggressively binding to the hypothalamus and pituitary, sending the signal that there's an OVERLOAD of testosterone present?The hypothalamus will cease production of Leutenizing-Hormone-Releasing-Hormone(L-H-R-H)in a presence of highly elevated ANDROGEN levels,and this in turn will cause the pituitary to cease production of Leutenenizing Hormone(L-H),which I know that you are aware that clomid will not defend against(androgens).Estrogen yes,androgens no. [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited November 04, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
so nolva 20mg everyday is ur choice of the way to go?? huck, what did u think of my above cycle?any comments?advice?it will be my first cycle | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
what u think el hucko? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 274 |
Hey Huck, man i forgot.......what is this clomid stuff? haha! ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
Yep,20mg/day is what I'd recommend if concerned with gyno.The cycle looks good,but I would just keep the d-bol dose at one steady level.There's no need to taper it on this particular cycle,as your system will be so flooded with androgens from the sust,by week 4 or 5,you can just cold turkey the d-bol and the sust will be at"saturation"levels that will completely make up for it's total absence.Everything else looks good,I like how you carry the eq out to well after the sust to solidify at the end.You're going to get huge on this one if your nutrition matches your drugs..... | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5348 |
Huck, i'm sorry to tell you this but clomid will guard against androgens from shutting down your anterior pituitary. The exact mechanism through which this occurs eludes me right now, but i've seen it happen every cycle i've been on for the past 8 years now. No matter what level of androgens you're taking, starting a course of clomid will re-initialize your hpta and cause your testes to produce testosterone. Anyone whose ever taken clomid during a cycle can attest to this, there is no testicular atrophy at all! Thereby telling us that yes, there is LH hormone present and the testes are producing testosterone. I'm sorry but your argument doesn't hold up to real world experience. ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
Until I'm presented some FACTUAL EVIDENCE on this,you and I will have to agree to disagree,as I have yet to see ONE single piece of literature that points to clomid preventing ANDROGENIC inhibition.It simply takes care of the ESTROGENIC inhibitory processes,it does not block androgens from binding to and inhibiting the hypothalamus and pituitary,at least not one shred of evidence I have seen to date would disprove this.I'm open-minded though,so if you should come across scientific factual evidence of this occurring,feel free to enlighten me.Until then,I guess I will have to very politely disagree with you.But you know I still got love for you big man | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 28 |
I am in the sciences at university, and all I can say is this is DEEP... bater UP..... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
wow, you guys seem to know your stuff huh maybe you can agree on this though?? when doing a heavy mass cycle, is it best to stay in the 8-12 rep range or the 4-8 range for maximum gains later fellas GO JETS!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1235 |
Depp, this conversation is way out of my league, but take the 4-8 reps for max growth. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 135 |
I sort of vote for Huck on this,though I much prefer E2 be right on this. If clomid prevents all testicular shrinkage, why take time off? I thought the reason you don't want to bridge between cycles with eq, or other light anabolics(while giving receptors a rest)is to prevent testicular shrinkage. Only when steroids have dropped to a useless level will the hpta begin to recover, and the nuts to grow again. If the drastic problem of nut shrinkage could be avoided by taking clomid every day throughout the cycle, who would ever worry about recovery? I could tell a weak, fat guy "just start lifting,and take tren for 18 months with clomid, you'll be ripped." Hgc soppossedly works like lutinizing hormone, stimulating the testicles directly.It is thought that these spurts of growth will cause your nuts to be a little less shrunken at the end of a long cycle.I have read that staying on longer then 3 months makes regrowth of nuts more problematic.There is a chance they will not regrow to their former size. For someone like E2, who acknowledges staying on year round, it is likely that he sees no benefit from Hgc.I can also see why when a year rounder takes clomid during a cycle, he observes that his nuts don't shrink ANY FURTHER. The easy way to settle this ancedotally is with a vote of brothers. How many have taken clomid throughout a cycle and noted smaller guys anyway at the end? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
huck, that cycle u told me about on the other board is ridicoulous, if you werent a lottery winner and were 20 what would you do? | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
YOURS ...You posed the question that if I could do"ANY"cycle,and were no more specific than that,so I gave you my answer based on your exact wording.... [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited November 05, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
oh huck, such a wise guy!!! thanks for the advice bro do you really think that 20mg of nolva a day is really necessary or should i jsut do it when gyno presents its nasty head | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4469 |
Running high amounts of d-bol and test side by side...I would play it safe rather than sorry,as there's a lot of potential for aromitization there...Just my .02 | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5348 |
Yes Huck i think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 411 |
Damn.. this discussion has been the fucking shit.. Like one of the old 2Thick/E2 bouts.. Glad Im back... |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted November 03, 2000 07:30 AM
