You will not see insane gains but it will get you used to gear and it will be good. If you use more, you will waste it and make your cycles needlessly more expensive in the future.

Only lazy lifters, who have no willpower, intensity, or any type of work ethic, need insane dosages for their first cycle. The high dosages for those types of people make up for their laziness and lack of commitment.

Maybe 250 is low for a person uses 750 for their first cycle, but that is because they started too high and will not be able to use low dosages ever again. That is really stupid in my opinion since you are just wasting money and taxing your body for a very small increase in gains.

Regardless of dosage (that battle will never end) why do vets often recomend Deca as an anabolic choice for a first cycle if the pserson has decided to stack? My take, if one is going to stack (the key is stack - if Deca alone, this is a non-isue) something with "T" wouldn't it be better to suggest a product that is not going to possibly induce prog. gyno. If you stack T and Primo for example and symptoms arise you at least will know how to "attack it." If you are stacking T and Deca, it's more of a guessing game as to how to address the problem (i.e. is it estrogen or prog. induced?)

Maybe I made this more of an issue than necessary in my decision process but I wanted to keep things simple (I know the percentages are low but why risk it on a first?)

Note: Sorry if this post does not make much sense, I'm in a hurry.

He can do what he likes. If he wants to "blow up" like a balloon, then deflate a month after his cycle then that is his choice.

If he were a serious athlete, then he would realize that one couldn't "blow up" in a short amount of time and expect to keep it. The human body does not work that way. It is an adaptive machine that changes over time. Therefore, extremely high dosages are of negligible consequence when you remove the cycle from the framework of the present and view it through the backdrop of the overall time you spend using gear throughout your life.

quote:

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Originally posted by 2Thick:
Maybe 250 is low for a person uses 750 for their first cycle, but that is because they started too high and will not be able to use low dosages ever again.[/B]

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Why do you say that 2Thick?

Do you believe on receptor downgrading or having a higher treshold "testosterone resistants"?

Anyway let me know if you have any proof on receptors becoming de-sentisized or downgrading.

I am with Huck 100% this is a huge guy and he should take in the dosages Huck prescribed. He said he wanted to blow up and with 550mg of gear per week he will get good gains but he will be dissapointed..

All points understood, but let me reply:

Huck said - Most individuals don't seem to have a problem with deca...

Agreed, most don't/won't. But I don't think a person needs those additional challenges on a first (but that's me). What if they are one of the few?

Huck said - It will probably always be a wise idea to have a spare bottle of winny on hand when using it...

Understood. But now you have to introduce yet a 3rd steroid and you get away from the simplicity that I think is important on a first cycle.

Huck said - or if you're an individual who has a high pre-disposition to gyno,use primo(which doesn't aromitize at ANY dosage)or Eq,which exhibits a very low aromitization rate,and can easily be controlled with the use of nolvadex.

But many of these guy's don't yet know if they are prone (I had a some testing performed in advance to help me make a more informed decision). It just seems like a risk that one does not need to take.

Just some thoughts bro...

Secondly, your body quickly habituates to the dosages that are used (and if you are not sure of my claims, I am sure Charles Darwin will back me up).

I had my heart set on a Sus/Deca first (Deca as my anabolic of choice over Primo for the obvious reasons). But, after a lot of research I compromised and went after Sus/Primo. The trade-off; less growth and higher cost vs simplicity and more manageable (sides) risk.

(besides, I'm an old fuck. I really wanted the therapeutic benefit of deca but...I'll take painful joints over a set of Ta Ta's anyday)

Yes you simply have a limited number of receptors but...

1)read this

Androgen Receptor Activation
Once a free molecule of steroid reaches the muscle cell, it diffuses into the cell. The diffusion can be with or without transport-protein assistance. Once in the cell, the AAS is makes its way to the cell nucleus where it can bind with an androgen receptor (AR), and activate the receptor. Two of these activated receptor complexes join together to form the androgen response element (ARE). The ARE interacts with DNA in the nucleus, and increases the transcription of certain genes (such as muscle protein genes). As long as the ARE is intact, it accelerates gene transcription. Remember, though, that the AAS and the receptor are in a state of flux (binding and un-binding), just like with the Carrier proteins. So the ARE can be deactivated just by losing one of the two AAS that are bound to the AR's. This equilibrium situation explains why 1 gram per week testosterone is more effective than 1/2 gram per week, even though 1/2 gram appears to be more than enough to saturate all the AR's in the body. The higher concentration makes it more likely that the receptors will be occupied by an AAS, and the ARE will be intact for a longer period of time, on average.

and

2) You can get growth from non ar mediated pathways such as protein synthesis, cns stimulation and motor activation and mood.

I doubt the body gets used to the high levels. If so then why can you progress naturally with only 7-10mg of Test in you per day?

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If it's not hard it's not worth doing...

Keep working out. Or maybe you have 17% BF then juce can be an option.

In response:

1). Even if they are in a constant state of flux, this does not increase the maximum amount of receptors that can be active at any one time.

Also, the maximum amount of test varies with each individual so 1000 could be more effective that 500mg, but there is a limit reach at the saturation point and that could mean 2000mg will not be more effective than 1000mg. The maximum saturation point for receptors will vary but more than 1500-2000 is really pushing it, so your reasoning has no bearing after those dosages.

2) Natural test production is at subsistence production levels and starts to dip after 18 years of age. That means that is raised until 18 and then falls from then on. Therefore it is not at the same rate for too long. Try to use test at 200mg/week for a half a year and then stop (even with Clomid). You will see that you will not function even at subsistence levels for a long time since your body habituated to 200mg/week to merely meet the status quo.

As for non-AR mediated pathways, they are also subject to habituation. That is why many nutritionists recommend cycling of protein during the year. High levels of protein over a long period become normal and less will be deficient (even though it is more than once needed). A similar argument could be laid down for cns stimulation.

Guys, I love to hear you ramble on and on but the truth is nobody knows what will work for him. I am very much a fan of lower dosages if you respond to them but I do have to lean toward HUCK on this one. The guy is just to damn big already to have dramatic results off 250mg, period. NO FLAME JUST OPPINION!

I just want to make things clear. I agree with you that there is 0 benefit on taking more than 2000mg per week.

I feel the ideal is somewhere around 1000mg depending on the size of the person, the drugs used and one's cycle experience.