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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Testosterone/Creatine synergy......
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| Author | Topic: Testosterone/Creatine synergy...... | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4413 |
Hey fellas.Just dug up an interesting read out of one of my old Ironman mags.The following excerpts are providided by the notorious Michael Gundill(a.k.a. Dharkam)....Although creatine does have testosterone-like effects,it doesn't act as a steroid hormone.Instead,it's a mediator of some of the androgens' anabolic effects.In fact,steroid users get far more out of their cycles if they take in massive amounts of creatine along with the drugs.Androgens are among the hormones that can force the entry of creatine into muscle cells.While there's a clear relationship between muscle strength gains and increases in muscle creatine stores,unfortunately,the relationship is not as obvious when it comes to increases in muscle mass.Animal-based studies have shown that the muscles of untrained rats take up as much creatine as the muscles of trained rats,but the ANABOLIC effects of creatine are only obvious in trained rats.Therefore,training increases the muscles sensitivity to the anabolic actions of creatine.(Although it's not related to this article,the study also demonstrated that the anabolic effects of creatine are DIRECT,and not mediated by waterretention.In fact,in the 1970s American and Russian studies pointed out a DIRECT anabolic effect of creatine on muscle cells.)Testosterone increases the muscles'sensitivity to the anabolic properties of creatine in addition to enhancing the creatine buildup in muscle fibers.It's also obvious that part of the strength gains people experience while on steroids are mediated by an increase in muscle creatine stores.An interesting discovery A/S users have made is that they should dramatically increase their creatine intake during a cycle to boost the potency of the steroids.Thanks to creatine,people can build more muscle mass with fewer drugs.Anecdotal evidence from A/S users points out that it takes at least 10-15 grams(maintenance)of creatine a day to visibly enhance the the anabolic potency of a steroid stack.There are probably good reasons for the increased creatine requirement when androgen levels are high.As mentioned above,steroids increase the muscle uptake of creatine,and if the muscles are ready to accept more creatine,why not give it to them?I also think that even though steroids enhance creatine synthesis,they may increase creatine degradation as well-so more creatine is used up every day.That could be due to an increase in muscle creatine turnover and also the fact that an elevated muscle protein synthesis rate will likely consume creatine at a faster rate.Other reasons for a higher creatine requirement may be indirect.Because the muscles of drug users are stronger and receive more training,they may waste greater amounts of creatine during training.Once inside the muscle,creatine provides not only an anabolic effect,but also a rapidly mobilized source of fuel.Muscle protein synthesis is a process that wastes great amounts of energy.Anabolism is an ATP-dependent process,which means that it's essential for protein synthesis.If the cellular level of ATP is reduced even a little,IT STOPS ANABOLISM.So even if you can increase the testosterone content of your muscles,nothing will happen if your ATP level is low.Creatine supports anabolism by providing energy to the muscle...Well fellas,it looks like it might be a good idea to stock up on creatine when you're grabbing your protein powder for those bulking cycles,hehheh....Huck    | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 649 |
yep...my next mass cycle will be starting in about one week...each post-workout meal is going to include 5g creatine,20g dextrose,2g of L-arginine... ------------------  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 239 |
Finn man That was an awsome POST!!!!! I am going to use creatine on my up comming cycle. You know what it is TEST, D-BOL, WINNY, and FINA!! And of course Clomid  ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1020 |
Shit!!! I wanted to leave the creatine and glutamine for when I come off the cycle to reduce the crash. This stuff is just to tempting. Huck: Should I leave the load up for after the cycle or just take it during the cycle? Therealj: Don't be scared of creatine take 10-15g and dextrose should be 60+ grams... What is 20g of Dextrose going to do heheheh!!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1180 |
Huck, great post, as usual. This is saved to disk. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4413 |
Hey guys-Any of you bros that experience bowel discomfort from creatine,try the effervescent form,it eliminates this problem.Drexx-I would stick to maintenance levels(15g/daily) DURING to keep creatine pools steady,then load when off to saturate those pools and give an extra boost when androgen levels are naturally lower.It well help keep your strength up as well,obviously | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1020 |
That is probably what I will do Huck! Anyway I have creatine on my essentials list and have been taking 10-15g after every training for the past 6-9 months. It's not expensive anymore so I can always keep it in... ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4413 |
Please keep this at the top for a while fellas,as everyone can benifit from it..... | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 12 |
keepin it real B<U<M<P !!!!!!! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 185 |
great!!! something else in the stack to bloat my face... Sounds good though!!! Anything for HUGENESS!!! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 94 |
Well, it is an interesting post (thanks) but I don't think I'm completely sold on the theory. The whole ATP thing is well overcomplicated and misused by most companies these days. Creatine too - I can't see exactly how it would "react" with gear to produce greater results. Help, sure, just like any other supp may help a cycle. But I don't see how the two could potentiate each other. I understand of course your cells need enough ATP to remain in a normal state of function optimal for muscle/protein synthesis, but I just don't think creatine is going to make a big difference in this regard. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 33 |
Great info. as usual Huck! I think I'll be maxing my creatine intake on my upcoming mass cycle. Bodie ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 208 |
Good stuff...Thanks Huck | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 96 |
Now I know why...... SHIT I stopped taking creatine about a month ago. Then I got my gear together and some more creatine. My fina and T50 cycle was going great along with the loading phase of creatine. I put on around 5-7 pounds in the first week. Another 2 pounds the second week. I stopped the loading phase of creatine that week. Now that's normal for creatine but since then I have been dropping weight almost 2lbs as of Friday. I hate to see what the scales will say on Monday. FYI my body fat has remained the same less than 10%. It's a good thing Huck posted this article and that I bought my creatine in a 1200 gram jug. I'll take care of this problem ASAP...... Great Info - Huck's the Man. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 436 |
Man, I love your posts. As someone said a couple of weeks ago you are a walking library! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 133 |
HUCK - I posted similar comments on this board a few days ago. Thanks for pulling the article!! ------------------ The moral? It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up - you had better be running. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 156 |
Good post Huck! Creatine gives me bowl problems, so I will try the effervescent kind. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 308 |
here is something to ponder....test, dbol, eq, insulin and 20g of creatine a day...can you say huge...I might throw this together for early spring | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4413 |
The insulin/creatine combo would be insane on top of the anabolics.Definitely an insane mass creator,hehheh.... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 242 |
Great post! Posts like this one is the reason for me being a member. Keep on the good work Huck! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 227 |
interesting post huck, great info. bump. i have 2 questions/concerns: 1. it makes sense to do creatine while on gear, but....15 grams is a lot of creatine to take evryday!! i had kidney pains when i was doing 5 grams a day.
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1134 |
Anecdotal at best creatine supplementation in monohydrate form doesn't produce universally accepted improvements in either muscular performance or development. I don't doubt certain educated members experiences with creatine, I would assume it to be placebo more so than anything else, but I digress. If your really interested in researching the ergogenic effects of supraphysiological quantities of ATP, the look no further than the world of professional horse racing. I can't think of the drug off the cuff, but it's essentially "Liquid ATP". From what I have read it's popular "down under". I would love to get ahold of some of that shit. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Twisted_Steel (edited October 31, 2000).]  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 137 |
bunp | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 91 |
Bump, nice post! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 176 |
BUMP! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1020 |
I have been using creatine for the past 6-9 months straight not because it causes a great kick I know it's good to keep the muscles nice and full and keep the creatine levels within the muscles high. I don't use it everyday just with my post workout shake. It consists of 40g of protein comming from whey and 80g dextrose plus 15g of Creatine. It's a good way to recuperate and that's it. If you like to get a good kick from creatine take it 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off then you will notice a difference. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 96 |
This post is great. I increased my creatine up to 20 grams a day and it has made a noticable difference in only about two days. Today at the gym the scales showed an increase of 2lbs. Now about a pound of that would be the gallon of gatorade I drink each day. I'll keep up the 20 grams a day and post the results next week. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 56 |
Huck I think you are great-actually I look for and follow your topics as i allways learn something-but in this case i respectfully disagree-thats an old article-save your creatine money-it makes no difference while on cycle-use that money to buy more gear-tomo | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 349 |
interesting theory....i personally hold ALOT of water with creatine so using it along with strong androgens wouldnt work well for me. although 5grams post workout may be benificial. i believe a good part of the strength gain produced from oxandrolone is due, in part, to an increase in ATP production...allowing for a faster conversion of ADP to ATP. Twisted......ive seen orall, pharmacuetical grade ATP available through smart-drug operations. the name slips my mind.....IAS. international anti-aging used to carry it....... Unity66 | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 73 |
What about using HMB, GLUTAMINE and CREATINE with OXANDRALONE and WINSTROL?I there anybody want to enlighten me? |
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posted October 29, 2000 12:20 PM