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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Winny, is it really 17aa in liquid form????
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| Author | Topic: Winny, is it really 17aa in liquid form???? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 310 |
I was reading Anabolics 2000 and now I'm really confused. Paragraph 3, "Although they(pill or liquid) are chemically identical, the injection provides the user a much higher dose of the steriod." Further in the article it states," With the structural (c17-aa) alteration, the tablets will also place a higher level of stress on the liver than the injectables, which avoids the first pass. Through my research on this board to find out whether drinking winny will give me the same results, I found that I would only lose 5%. Now with this info from a pretty reputable source, I'm back to square one... confused. Ok guys whats up. Huck Finn, 2thick, E2 lets get this straight     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 161 |
yES IT IS 17AA IN LIQUID OR PILL FORM AND IT IS LIVER TOXIC JUST LIKE ANAVAR. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Did you read the info above? Are you a chemist? lets have some back up guys. I have a book that some people say its their bible. So lets get some inteligent answers | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 765 |
Yes, the are both 17-aa. The difference is all the oral dose has to pass through the liver to get into the bloodstream. The injectable, however, will enter the bloodstream from the injection site and some of it will be taken up by target tissues before it reaches the liver. Therefore the injectable should be slightly less toxic on a mg per mg basis. [This message has been edited by Anabolicum Mister (edited October 22, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
WHATS YOUR QUESTION? YOU MIGHT WANT TO SPECIFY IT BEFORE YOU CALL SOMEONES ANSWER UNINTELLIGENT. YES YOU CAN DRINK WINNY LIQUID AND YOU WONT GET THE EXACT SAME RESULTS AS IF YOU INJECTED IT. AND YES IT'S 17AA WHETHERE IT IS IN ORAL OR PILL FORM, JUST LIKE INJECT ANADROL AND INJECT D-BOL, THEY ARE ALL 17AA.WHAT CAN ONLY FUCKING CHEMISTS ANSWER YOUR FUCKING QUESTIONS. [This message has been edited by Pi Kappa Phi (edited October 22, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Ok now we are getting somewhere. But the quote does say that the c17aa is added to the pill, so to me that means the liquid does not have. This is very important to me because I'm drinking 25mg ed for the last two weeks and my results aren't so great | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 765 |
Whether it is in pill form or liquid form, it is the same substance - stanozolol. The stanozolol molecule, by definition, contains a methyl group at the 17-alpha position. Therefore it is said to be 17-alpha alkylated. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
what kind of results do you expect in 2 weeks, winny isnt the most powerful steroid out there anyway, it will take time to notice gains, and what kind of gains are you expecting, to get huge, because you surely wont get huge, maybe more lean adn harder, depending on your diet. 25mgs of liquid winny wont yield great results in the first place, you need to up your dose. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Easy killer... Your answer wasnt backed up. I was stating a quote, which to me means the liquid form and pill form are chemically identical, but the pill has c17aa added so your liver wont break it down. My first post was a direct quote and not my own thoughts. This is important, thats why I wanted a back up answer. I can post that they are the same because everybody and there sister say the same thing on this board. I'm posting because Anabolics 2000 say something different. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Ok relax for a second man. So we are saying that the book is wrong. If this is true great I can keep doing what I'm doing. I was afraid to throw away money. But if we are wrong, we should figue out what to do. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 765 |
Lawnsaver, Where you are getting confused is that you think that c17aa is something that is added to a pill. It is not. It is part of the steroid molecule which is contained in both the pill form and the liquid form. Pi is right though. Don't expect too much size from winny, especially so soon. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 765 |
BTW, are you stacking it with anything. That dosage is pretty low to get much out of it if you are using it by itself. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Ok this a quote, " with the structural (c17aa) Alteration, the tablets will put a higher stress on the liver." What does this mean. Is the book wrong? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Yes, 300mgs of eq a week | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 765 |
Yes, the book is wrong. I don't think they meant for it to be interpreted that way. In the very least, it is an ambiguous statement. Double your winny dosage if you want better results. Also, I am of the opinion to split the dose into twice or more (25mg x 2) a day. Even with 300mg Eq/wk it is a pretty mild cycle. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Thanks, you see why I was confused. It makes a statement that goes against al that I have learned on this board. I'm going heavier on my next cycle. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Anybody else have a comment on these quotes? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
bump... and mods or gurus | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 594 |
Simply put, if a -CH3 (methyl) group was missing from the molecule, i.e. non-alkylated, it could no longer be called stanzolol. Just like ethanol without the -OH group could not be called ethanol, but rather by ethane. So therefore stanzolol, to be stanzolol must be 17-AA in both oral and injectible forms. And yes, if you couldn't tell by my handle, my college education is Chemistry/Biochemistry. You wanted a chemist to clear this up for you correct? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 74 |
The book isn't wrong. It just assumes that you will inject the winny liquid and not take it orally. | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 1549 |
NO, They are WRONG. 17aa drugs are metabolized in the same manner whether injected or taken orally. This first pass crap has been around forever-it is patently untrue. Stanozolol whether taken orally or by injection enters the blood stream FIRST before being circulated and thus exposed to the liver. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 422 |
The idea that orally active steroids will be less hepatotoxic, if injected, is stupid. First-pass metabolism has NOTHING to do with toxicity, but everything to do with ACTIVITY. A non-17AA steroid is 90%+ deactivated by first-pass metabolism, while 17-AA provides protection from this process, thus allowing the drug to get past this and remain active in the blood. If you inject a 17-AA steroid, it must still be metabolised by the liver, so if it is toxic to the liver it will be toxic no matter what the route of administration. One would imagine that with all of the available resources on drugs, that WAR and Anabolics 2000 could stop perpetuating these ignorant claims. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Guys, thanks for clearing the issue up. I thought it was important to a lot of people on this board who purchased that book to hear the truth. I know if I didnt find this board, I would take that book as truth. I'm glad some of you took the time to help, thats why there are thousands of registered members. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4336 |
Terrific thread.Keep in mind,that each of these anabolic books that come out every few years have all contained mistakes in them.Even the late great Dan Duchaine admitted to horribly miscalculating on some of his theories in both of his underground handbooks.The great thing about it is that he was man enough to admit this publically and re-correct those mistakes and pass them on to everyone else,so that they now had the CORRECT information.Again,nice thread fellas..... | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Huck, I was waiting for you to join. Better late than never. Again guys thanks for the clarity!!!!!! | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4336 |
I think the most important statement in this entire thread is Macro's statement-Winstrol will enter the blood stream FIRST,whether orally or intra-muscularly administered,before being metabolized by the liver.This just goes to show that there are NO differences in injecting or taking orally,all you are doing is taking different pathways to achieve the SAME end result.Thanks for clarifying that AGAIN Macro. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 691 |
I think that "YES, YOU CAN DRINK WINNY" should be added to the "Newbie Post..." if it's not already on there (haven't seen it in a while and can't remember!)...but I agree with HUCK, great thread! ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 310 |
Just wanted to bump for the night crowd and any newbies that missed this |
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posted October 22, 2000 10:02 PM