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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 need milk thistle with oxandrolone?
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| Author | Topic: need milk thistle with oxandrolone? | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 23 |
Now that theres some ox lurking in tj for about $80 for 100, Im probably gonna go get as many bottles as I can afford and was wondering if the ox is toxic enough to bother getting some milk thistle(or is there something better for this??*) Thanks     | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
also, do u need nolva or clomid with ox? helpful just to be safe? thanks | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 534 |
nope, dont need clomid or nolva, milk thisle isnt necessary either. It is none toxic to the liver and does not aromatize. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 161 |
i must disagree, although in some works you might hear anavar is not toxic, it happens to be a little outdated. it depends on the dosage you are taking. I had an increase in liver enzymes at 45mgs a day after 4weeks. NO alcohol, and no other over teh counter medications were used in this time and enzymes were normal before cycle. there is also some that believe that miligram for miligram anavar is close to the toxicity of anadrol. Sure your liver enzymes might not be affected at a lose dose (15mgs), but i also dont believe you enzymes would be too badly affected at 15mgs of oxymetholone either. so yes, if you are using high doses of anavar, use milk thistle if you are worried about an elevation of enzymes. [This message has been edited by Pi Kappa Phi (edited October 22, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 534 |
cool Pi Kapp, you stand to set me corrected. I've always heard its completely none toxic, but due to the higher doses we take, there would be the possiblity to effect liver enzymes. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
yeah me too clem, thats why i was surprised to have an increase in enzymes, but then i researched it a lot and found some articles stating it it was in fact toxic in higher dosages. i will see if i can find some of the articles and email them to you. it was an eye opener for me. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1275 |
Well you can start by opening my eyes, but I think they are already open. The research laid before the FDA before they gave approval of this drug showed no liver toxification in any dose they tested. All the way up to 80mg/day. This research is not out-dated. I am only speaking of the BTG not the mexican that looks exactly like thai dbol. hmmm But just like tylenol if you keep eating it it will kill you. Oxandrolone Overdose You'd have to eat it with a shovel. [This message has been edited by ulter (edited October 22, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 534 |
well whether or not it does increase liver enzymes slightly at higher doses, I think we can all agree it is one of the safest and least toxic drugs out there. I dont think the milk thisle is necessary, but it never hurts to take some anyway to keep your liver running 100%. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1376 |
YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT IS 17AA. ------------------  | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
Still locked out?? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1376 |
yES DAMMIT - DO SOMETHING! ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
I don't know what you guys did wrong. And don't call me dammit.  try going in at http://pub22.ezboard.com/fxmansboardanabolicdiscussion | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 222 |
Info from a bb web site: Description Although Oxandrolone is available in the U.S. under the brand Oxandrin, it's exorbitant wholesale price precludes it from entering the black market. Thus, the SPA version from Italy is the only version left which athlete's do see regularly. They come 30 tabs to a box, in 2 foil and plastic strips of 15 each. Oxandrolone has a reputation of being one of the safest anabolics available even though it is mild, it is 17 alpha alkylated so liver values may be of concern when used excessive. Women and children are often given this drug with little or no adverse side effects. For athletes, it is a mild anabolic which usually exhibits more strength than muscle mass increases and very little water retention. Possibly one of the most desirable characteristics of it is that is does not aromatize at any dosage, although, it does sometimes (depending on the persons predisposition) cause natural testosterone to convert to estrogen which will result in some slight side effects that are associated with estrogen conversion. Another attribute that Oxandrolone has is that, unlike most steroidal substance, it does not suppress the bodies natural production of testosterone. A common dosage of Oxandrolone is around 25mg daily. It is commonly stacked with other steroids due to its low rate of side effects. Possibly the most popular stack using Oxandrolone is 50mg Winstrol every two days, 50mg Testosterone Propionate every two days, and 25mg Oxandrolone every day. Because of its high price, it is tough to find on the black market and should be looked over carefully if found. There is currently no injectable form of Oxandrolone. Hope this helps ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1376 |
Well smarty pants, that did not work either, anymore bright ideas ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
No I'm between sets so I can only type one sentence at a time | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 764 |
How'd I know you'd respond to this thread - lol. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 3 |
Where can i get milk thistle from?? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
Because you are a brilliant individual. Gotta move plates. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1376 |
and still we cannot get on the board ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1376 |
fine then, i will go look ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
well ulter with all do respect you are wrong as hell. it does increase liver enzymes whethere you want to believe it or not, not only have i experienceD it but i know that other people have too, it is 17aa, and therefore is somewhat toxic to the liver, TRUST ME KING IT DOES AFFECT THE LIVER I PROMISE YOU THAT. [This message has been edited by Pi Kappa Phi (edited October 22, 2000).] | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 12 |
Dillinger...you can get milk thistle at pretty much any health food store, GNC, etc | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
Pi Kappa Phi I am not wrong. If I am then the researchers and physicians who have done the studies I have read or seen (296) should have saved themselves a lot of time and expense and just asked you if Oxandrolone was liver toxic at normal doses. Somewhat?? Where did you read somewhat? Never mind.. I'll even accept a scientific somewhat... But like I said Tylenol is "somewhat" toxic to your liver also. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
you are wrong, where are all the studies? post them for us. I can tell you by experience. IT is 17aa, your liver breaks it down, anything your liver breaks down is toxic to the liver too many water soluble vitamins, valium, xanax, ANAVAR. are you telling everybody that it is a 17aa and at higher doses it is non toxic to your liver, because i would think you were a little smarter than that. of course tylenol is toxic, but we are not talking about tylenol we are talking about anavar. which can also be liver toxic.(SOMEWHAT = NOT TOO MUCH, SLIGHTLY) | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
I think the smallest study is 20 pages. Not really posting material. And I don't pay for you to read it I pay for me to read it. If you want free information call BTG and ask them for it 212-947-9800. Tell them you want to see the studies they provided the FDA with to win approval. I have had this discussion already twice in the last week and I am not going around and around with you about it. I don't know you and I don't care. Don't use it. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
i too dont want to go back and fourth about this, but I feel that TO tell this man who is basically asking if this drug is liver toxic, that it is not, is assanine. IT IS 17AA, IT CAN BE LIVER TOXIC AT HIGHER DOSES,my liver and some of my buddies liver tests are proof of this. I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME MORE OPINIONS ON THIS. ANY MODERATORS THAT WANT TO PUT THEIR INPUT IN ON THIS PLEASE DO. BECAUSE I AM NOT WRONG WHEN I MAKE THE STATEMENT THAT ANAVAR IS 17AA AND CAN BE LIVER TOXIC. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 764 |
Deja Vu...hehehe. Pi, I am curious to which enzyme levels were high. ALT, AST, GGT, Bilirubin, all? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
MY LDH, ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE, SGOT AND SGPT WERE ALL ELEVATED. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1275 |
AM don't start this again. YOU I have to answer. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 764 |
Pi, For you it seems to have an effect on your liver. (I'm assuming you weren't stacking it with any other orals or 17aa's). You should know something about Ulter: The only thing tougher than his liver is trying to change his opinion on something [This message has been edited by Anabolicum Mister (edited October 22, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
i appreciate it AM. I know how he feels, Im the same way, it is nothing personal to ulter, his first post towards me just really pissed me off. (it could be the fina)(no i was using anavar only, hardening up, for my first comp).later |
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posted October 22, 2000 01:38 AM