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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 is there an advantage to tapering or "pyramiding"?
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| Author | Topic: is there an advantage to tapering or "pyramiding"? | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 21 |
will start first cycle monday. i was told to go 8 weeks at 200mg of deca and 250 mg of test every week. now some people are telling me to start low and increase my mg then come down again in mg's. i.e. week test deca 1 100 100 2 100 100 3 250 200 4 350 300 5 250 200 6 100 100 7 100 100 8 50 50 this was one example they gave me. does this sound right? is there and avantage to doing it this way as opposed to the full 200 mg of deca and 250 of test for 8 weeks? i wanna do this right, this is my first cycle. im 5'10" 175 lbs and want to bulk up. thanks bros. _____________________________________________ REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS!! _____________________________________________     | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4220 |
Pyramiding is an outdated structure.Why use doses that will do very little in the way of promoting growth,yet still be inhibitive on your hormonal axis?Stay at a steady dose all the way through,with maybe a slight taper at the end,but not much. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Not to mention,those dosages are hundreds of mgs too low to be promoting serious growth.You need to bring them up considerably. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 21 |
thanks huck. what do you suggest the dosages should be? and what gains will i see from them? | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
500mg/week of sust,300-400mg/weekly of deca.Run the two together for 8 weeks.Have nolvadex on hand during the cycle,and clomid for post-cyle test recovery. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 21 |
do you think adding primo to the stack is a good idea? or should i leave the primo for a cutting cycle after my this one? how much primo would i need to take a week? bro thanks for the info. i could have used your help long before!!! | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Well,primo shares similar characteristics to deca in that it binds extremely well to the androgen receptor,so in a sense it and deca would be competing for the same receptors.Based on that,I would say to save the primo for another cyle.If you do primo in the future,400mgs/weekly ran for 8-10 weeks is a good run. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 21 |
bro YOU are a BADASS. thanks for your incredible help. with regards to the low dosages. i am strapped for cash right now and dont think ill be able to come up with $ to increase the dosages. do you think im wasting my time by doing the cycle and i should wait to get more gear (you stated sust. would that be sustenon? ive got the test already. how much should i increase the test by?) or should i do the cycle? (what realistic gains will i get from a low cycle such as 200 mg od deca and 250 mg of test for 8 weeks? bro thanks again. by the way they should name a room after you! | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
My apologies,typo on my behalf.What kind of test do you have?400mgs/weekly would be the lowest I would go on standard,one ester test.300mgs/weekly is pretty much the lowest point condusive for growth with deca. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 21 |
huck once again thanks a lot for the help. i think ill hold off till i can bring it up to 400 mg. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 21 |
by the way do you have a site? what other sites can you give me that you think are the best? thanks a million. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 302 |
Gotta go with Huck on this. 400mg test and 300mg deca MINIMUM for a cycle. I'm going 500mg sustanon with 400mg Organon deca per week for 8 wks. To make it clear, make each cycle count. Your first is your best chance to blast your receptors and get good results. You may be unhappy if you do less than has been reccomended. Good luck. ghans | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
ming,Huck is the man i followed his advice on my 8 week cycle of test,deca,dbol I have just completed my second week my weight has gone up from 211 to 224 my diet is still clean i have added extra calories in the form of protien im using 400mg deca,600mg of test and 30mg of dbol a week my girl cant believe the size i have put on and she knows what i am doing and i still wear a size 34 pants and there starting to feel loose so i know im not gaining alot of fat thanks again Huck. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 84 |
I like the fact Huck replied to the newbie's post with help and respect. I really do and I'm not being sarcastic. Now my question, do you think sustanon at 500mg has the potential of being equal to even 400mg one single test ester? I think not as it uses 4 blends. I think 600mg cyp beats 1 gram of sus but I might be wrong. I can't tell because I've never cycled shorter cycles to really notice but whoever out there knows, I'd like to know, because I did not see much from using 500mg sustanon at one point but I gained some. I think 500mg is too weak. I'd say go with Huck Finn's idea of a single test ester around 400mg per week. If you are going to use sustanon, go with 1 gram per week. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 6 |
Ming my apologies for glomming onto your post but Huck seems like one of the few decent guys out there that can give us newbies something other than a brain fart for a response. Huck I posted a cycle on the board "Comments on this bulking cycle?" that I'd like your advice on. I didn't dream this one up, it was given to me. I just want to get about 30# more of muscle in the next year and then maintain naturally. Seems like you know your stuff which is why you don't have to be a shit head like some of these other guys. Appreciate the help. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Little man:I went and looked at it.Keep the sust at 750 all the way through,500mg the last week.Deca is way too high,400mg/week all the way through.Eq looks o.k,keep it at 400mgs.Primo-No taper,400mgs/week straight through. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 161 |
Ok Huck, so let me ask you a question about my cycle im doing now. First week: 1000mg Aratest, 700mg Ultragan. 900 & 600 2nd week. 800 & 550 3rd week. Should i keep my test & EQ at 800mg for Aratest & 550mg for Ultragan throughout the cycle, and the last 2 weeks go down some on the dosages? ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Yes,keep your doses static.Only drop the last week or two. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 41 |
huck, one question, is deca beter than eq in my 1rst stack?cause i can get it cheaper i assume 19yrold 1rst time sauce novice sus 500 all 8 weeks dbol 40 wk 1+2, 35 wk 3+4, 25 week 5 and then deca 400 all the way, or is eq better?or safer? and how much a week realistically huck, for a novice on that cycle, do i have to wrry about gyno?at 19? lastly, i know i am gonna get yelled at, but in a senntence or two as to not waste time, what is the benifit of dbol if alot is jsut water thanks, it would jsut be easier if us novices could jsut take huck in a room and borrow his brain, download it, like in the matrix | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Deppnade:Cycle looks good.Sust and d-bol amounts are right on.As for the Eq or deca,my opinion is this-Eq is safer from a standpoint that it's sides are more easily controlled(with the use of nolvadex)whereas deca's sides can't be controlled as easily,BUT,if you stay at 400mg/week or below,you shouldn't have too many problems.You will need nolvadex on hand for this cycle,as both sust and d-bol do aromitize,and you will need clomid for post cycle natural test recovery.D-bol initially gains mainly water through estradiol-related edema,but after a couple of weeks in the system it starts to BUILD MUSCLE through increased protein synthesis and increased calcium synthesis,so it's not just water but muscle as well.... | ||
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Novice
Posts: 6 |
Huck - man you are a breadth of fresh air for us newbies. I second the notion of creating a Huck board because you know your stuff, you don't mind helping others who are trying to learn. Somehow I hope I can pay you back one day for being a cut above the rest. Read your comments - one clarification - stick to the doses you noted as well as the regime I wrote with the exception of your dosage change. Right? Two questions - what about the clomid and HCG that I listed? And keep Nolvadex around in case Gyno shows up? Thanks again Huck - I'll defend you to my death! Ming you know how to attract quality help man - thanks! | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 41 |
huck, why is the view of whether clomid should be used during or just after a cycle sooooooo varied??? slopain, a notable guru, and who i may add has helped me TO NO ENDLESS LIMITS, recommends that i do clomid during the cycle so my little dudes dont shrink also, you like the idea of nolvadex 20 mg all throughout the cycle, or just when u feel gyno present or sore nipples, i am gonan stick with deca for 400mg all 8 weeks, or u think i should taper at the end, so basically thanks man, u have an email address???? | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Littleman-Yes,your"patterning"(sequence of products)looks good,just make the mg adjustments I stated above.Hcg should be used mid-cycle to stimulate the testes to grow(if atrophied)and then again post cycle,if needed.See my response below on the clomid and nolvadex...... | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 4061 |
Even though Huck is close, he is still going too high with the dosages. I would use 250-300mg of test throughout and pyramid the Deca (since you get the most gains and least side effects using a pyramid). Years of Deca experience cannot be wrong. It should be more than enough for a great first cycle. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Deppnade-Slopain is a highly knowledgable bro and a good guy.Rather than say I disagree,let me offer my thoughts on clomid.First let's break down exactly how clomid stimulates the hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis(H-P-T-A)into producing test.Clomid binds to ESTROGEN receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary,and blocks estrogen from binding to receptors in these regions.Clomid does NOT bind to ANDROGEN receptors,so if the hypothalamus and pituitary are in a state of inhibition from Heavy ANDROGEN use,clomid will not help here.It is when androgen levels start to return back to normal and the inhibition is from still elevated estrogen levels(which is all too common post cycle)that clomid will be of greatest use for blocking ESTROGEN receptors on these glandsand this in turn stimulates them to start producing leutenizing-hormone-releasing-hormone(L-H-R-H)and leutenizing hormone(LH)respectively.It is for this reason that I personally save my clomid for post-cycle test recovery,and not during the cycle.Nolvadex should always be on hand BEFORE you start any cycle that involves aromitizable gear.If you don't notice any signs of gyno(itching,puffiness,irritation)then there's no need to administer it.Hope this helps you fellas..... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 214 |
Poor Huck he seems like he is the last veteran on this board... where did they all go? To the Select Board??? ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 41 |
alright huck, i got ya you think that i should do clomid 1 week after my last shot at 100mg/day then 2 more weeks at 50mg/day? lastly, after i do a cycle of sus for 500 a week, dbol for 5 weeks at 40, 40, 35, 35, 25 and i guess eq for 400 a week throughout(because i play football and i heard that deca is tracable in urine for 1 year and 6 months), when do i do a cutting cycle? i am a newbie, and any mistakes i say let me know so i can fix em, thanks man also, you think that me using eq and not deca cause of tests, is eq not as good as deca?will i see less good results? | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 41 |
huck, before my accounting class i figured id ask another question after i do my cycle, and i do my clomid, yada yada yada, this may sound dumb, but then what do i do?
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Cool Novice
Posts: 41 |
huck | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4220 |
Okay Deppnade,here you go buddy:The clomid should be done in the pattern you stated,just wait until TWO weeks after your last sust injection.As for when you should do a cutting cycle?Time on=time off.Take a couple of months off in between cycles to let your H-P-T-A recover fully and give your receptors some time to up-regulate again.Either winny/eq or winny/primo would make for a nice,synergistic cutting stack.In your off time-creatine,glutamine,and a ton of high quality protein should go a long way to helping you retain your hard earned mass. |
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posted October 14, 2000 09:51 PM