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  Okay all you short cycle enthusiasts.....

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Author Topic:   Okay all you short cycle enthusiasts.....
HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Guru

Posts: 2016
From:Timbuktu
Registered: Aug 2000

posted October 11, 2000 03:29 AM

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I see a lot of misconceptions of what constitutes a"short cycle"going on lately.I constantly hear so and so talk about"Yeah,I'm planning on doing a short cycle that will consist of four weeks of test".This is missing the whole benificial strategem behind this newer"fad"type of cycling,and I'll explain why that is--2 WEEKS is the maximum one should be"on",for the following reasons:In the first two weeks of high androgen levels,pituitary response to Leutenizing-Hormone-Releasing-Hormone(LHRH)not only does not decrease,it actually IMPROVES(Which basically means your pituitary is sensitized,and therefore leutinizing hormone output is increased,which is obviously quite benificial).BUT-AFTER THE 2 WEEK POINT:The pituitary rapidly becomes unresponsive to L-H-R-H.Thus,both the Hypothalamus(which produces L-H-R-H)and the Pituitary(which produces Leutenizing Hormone)are now in a state of inhibition,and must ride out a longer recovery process.The moral here is,from a SUPPRESSIONAL standpoint--You guys that are stretching your cycles out past the two week point might as well just do the standard 8 week cycles,since full inhibition has already occurred.If kept to 14 days and under,recovery is almost immediate,as only the hypothalamus has to recover,not the pituitary.Here's some helpful hints for staying within the time frame,thus reaping the benifits behind this particular method of cycle:Stick to orals and injectibles with short acting esters.Any of the orals are acceptable as they all have fast clearance times out of the body.Suitable injectibles include:Suspensions(Aqueous,Winstrol)acetates,propionates,and phenylpropionates.Hope this clears up some of the misconceptions and helps any of you fellas thinking about experimenting with this method in the future.---Huck


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Pharm Animal

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 200
From:Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 11, 2000 04:06 AM

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thanks huck...you've sparked my interests in short cycles....

are there any examples that anyone out there has for short cycles? i would love to see some examples

------------------
>|===|--
Take care,
P.A.


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Fonz

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 99
From:Spain(Madrid) and England
Registered: Jun 2000

posted October 11, 2000 07:31 AM

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A typical short cycle consists of steroids with a short half-life. For example:

Weeks1+2:

1. Dianabol: 50mg(5 times 10mg/day)
2. 100mg trenbolone acteate daily
3. 50mg oxandrolone daily
4. 100mg Winstrol daily

Arimidex+Novaldex throughout W1+W2, and W3
Clomid at 300mg on W3 Day1, then followed by 50mg/day for the next 6 days.

Gains could range anywhere from 8-10lbs of muscle if you eat enough.


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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Guru

Posts: 2016
From:Timbuktu
Registered: Aug 2000

posted October 11, 2000 02:17 PM

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Please keep this at the top for a while fellas,just to clear up any confusions or misconceptions......


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Slopain

Guru

Posts: 2463
From:Yo Aunties Pad
Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 11, 2000 02:23 PM

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lol yeah Ive seen some "short" cycle running sus for 4 weeks? I ask them for their logic and they say well Ill do 4 weeks on 2 off and then 4weeks on again and keep repeating that! WTF? heheh more like a 4 weeks on and 2 week bridge with the sus.

At this time Im not a big fan of the short cycle for mass, but am still open.

Slopain


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Bchemist

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 560
From:USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 11, 2000 02:33 PM

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Great post APE. It's something to consider for the future.

Fonz, your logic is flawed. I don't think that it is possible to gain 8-10 lbs of contractile muscle proteins in 2 weeks. Maybe 4-6 and the rest water.

My personal suggestion

100mg suspension EOD
800mg Eq at day 1
40mg d-bol per day


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Fish

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 630
From:Indianapolis, In USA
Registered: May 2000

posted October 11, 2000 02:51 PM

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Okay, so you do the two weeks on, fast recovery... how long do you wait to before going back on? two weeks? How long can you keep this up? Has anyone tried?

------------------
SIZE MATTERS MOST

"Obsession is passion. Use it. Make it your strength." -by Puc



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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

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From:Timbuktu
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posted October 11, 2000 02:51 PM

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Yeah Slo,they're completely missing the whole point,which is to avoid inhibition,or at least have very little,with a speedy recovery of the H-P-T-A.


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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Guru

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From:Timbuktu
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posted October 11, 2000 02:55 PM

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Fish:It is ran in a two weeks on,four weeks off pattern.The idea is to return the body to a complete state of homeostasis in between cycles.This would normally take longer when inhibition is present for longer periods.


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Fish

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 630
From:Indianapolis, In USA
Registered: May 2000

posted October 11, 2000 02:57 PM

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Have you tried this? Do you gain the same/more/less in a year, than with longer cycles/longer off time?

------------------
SIZE MATTERS MOST

"Obsession is passion. Use it. Make it your strength." -by Puc



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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Guru

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From:Timbuktu
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posted October 11, 2000 03:08 PM

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I can't necessarily say that you're going to gain more than doing long cycles but lets use a little speculation here:With this particular formula(2 on,4 off)you could potentially do 8 short cycles a year.Let's just say you only gained 3-4 lbs total lean body mass from each one.At the end of one year,you would have accrued between 24-32lbs of lean muscle,if all goes well.But more importantly,during this time,you will have never completely suppressed your natural testosterone levels!Interesting,if nothing else,hehheh.


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Fish

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Indianapolis, In USA
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posted October 11, 2000 03:23 PM

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I think it is very interesting. After I go off cycle, I stay motivated for about a month. Then I strugle to complete a good day. With the 2 weeks on 4 off, I could avoid this problem. Something to look into.

------------------
SIZE MATTERS MOST

"Obsession is passion. Use it. Make it your strength." -by Puc



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Donald Smoot

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:
Registered: Aug 2000

posted October 11, 2000 03:33 PM

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My guess is that someone who only does 2 wk.cycles may have a higher natural T level then if they shrunk and grew back(perhaps only partialy)their nuts several times a year.
So a 2 wk. cycler should eventually maintain at a larger size(off gear) then if they had done longer cycles.
The only advantage of 2 week cycles is to maximize your natural T production,as a gear user.I depends on if you believe your nuts grow back all the way no problem.If you are worried about that,quit gear at 2 weeks before they begin to shrink in the first place.
I gained about 5lbs. and 10% strength that I have kept from a 12 day tren cycle about a month ago.Another thing no one has mentioned is that it's easier to be"good"for 14 days then 50+in a row.Perfect diet,max work etc.


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Jeff_rys

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1043
From:The future a 1000 years from now
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posted October 11, 2000 05:01 PM

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2 on, 4 off, well a lot of guys will not be interested. Simply because they will be longer OFF the juice then ON.
Interesting post though.

------------------
Jeff

Don't look back, life is too short


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MR. BMJ

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 164
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 11, 2000 07:15 PM

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This has been discussed in Duchaine's Dirty Dieting Newsletter by both Alexander Philipides and George Gionis.

Weeks 1 & 2: 150 mg per day of Test. Prop.(in the morning) along with 250 mg. of aminoglutethimide and 50 mg. of Proviron twice every day.

Weeks 3-6: 0.5 mg. of Arimidex per day.

"The average LBM increase over [a] one year period was between 11-13 kg.(24-28.5 lbs.). And once again the blood examinations conducted consistently every six weeks demonstrated that the efficacy of this practice was coupled by utmost safety".


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Pharm Animal

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 200
From:Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 11, 2000 07:43 PM

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interesting for sure...thanks guys for the feedback and cycle structures...but i need much more knowledge on this subject....i will let you all know if i decide to try it, and will keep you guys updated with my progress...meanwhile keep the info/theories coming

------------------
>|===|--
Take care,
P.A.


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bgriff

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 219
From:Barnhart,Mo
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 11, 2000 08:51 PM

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Bump good info bro!!! Thanx!!!

------------------
"TIME TO GROW!!!!!"


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Dr.Atlas

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 199
From:Grand Rapids, MI USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted October 11, 2000 08:57 PM

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Would a nandralone, like nandralone phenylpropionate (Durabolin), half life approximately 8 days, work with this? I know nandralones seem to work better in longer cycles, but I'm curious. Peace!

------------------
Learning medicine for the benefit of the Iron Brothers (and Sisters, God bless them)


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BRICK

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 54
From:U.S.A
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 11, 2000 08:59 PM

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I would definately be interested in trying this. ive always done a longer cycle with great results but ill try anything once! good post! BUMP!!


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WCP

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From:Hades
Registered: Jan 2000

posted October 12, 2000 03:05 AM

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It makes sense to a point but I would like to see some real world experience with this, I personally dont see a point in taking a cycle over 6-8 weeks tops anyhow...I always wondered why some guys go 20 weeks bulking at a time...its a real waste..

Great post APE,
WCP

------------------
driven by testosterone
adrenaline and pheromone
crowning glory of creation
super-human incarnation


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mightydog

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1030
From:
Registered: May 2000

posted October 12, 2000 04:53 AM

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The only problem i have is that Deca is the primary drug I can use do to availability in my area. Shit takes damn near 4 weeks just to start working. I like to bulk with anadrol-50, test, and deca my first month, drop the A-50 my second month but continue packing in the chow, and then lean up the third month on 600mgs.test/400 deca.


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skg

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 143
From:Greece
Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 12, 2000 05:33 AM

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I just finished a short cycle with not good results. However I took only 2weeks off from an 8week cycle. Also I couldnt find any suspansion and proprionate would take a couple of weeks to come; I couldnt wait. That is what I did:

Week1 1000mg test enanth 800mg primobolan

40mg bdol 50mg proviron 1/2tab arimidex per day of first week.

week2 off.


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cabexbx

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 81
From:
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 12, 2000 10:45 AM

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Is it necessary to do higher quantities for a shorter time? Or could you say do moderate dosages for 2 on/4 off for a year and still get/keep good gains. I'm thinking of something like test enthanate. It seems to me like if you don't shock your body as much with large amounts of weight gain in a short period of time it'd be easier to keep the gains.


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strengthmonster

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 155
From:uk
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 12, 2000 11:27 AM

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OK, F*ck it, I'll try it, I'll be a guiniepig. As soon as I get back off my hols in six weeks after a four week off period I'm gonna give it a go. I've been cosidering it for ages but like so many other bros I've been looking for other peoples experiences with them first. So far the only people I've heard say they work are the one's on Biohazards web site (the UK one) Biohazard849.com and the guys there are obviously getting sponsered by Paul Borreson who also advocates them. I've just read his latest book about them and although I am sceptical it does seem to make sense. I've not yet planned the course but was thinking along the lines of starting very high (by my standards anyway) at 2000mg Testoviron Dep for the first week only, 2000mg of Test prop for the second then 1000mg for the third, with clomid and nolvadex to hand. I may throw some Primo Depot into the mix as well. I'm gonna stay away from the orals to not strain my liver too much. I'll update you when the course is properly planned after a little more research.


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GETTN'BIG

Cool Novice

Posts: 23
From:ATWATER CA USA
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posted October 12, 2000 02:07 PM

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hey huck, i never got toread you reply to my questio on the deca/winstrol/sustanon cycle. how much per week,day. how many bottles should i need. how much clomid and nolvadex should i need. can i get real winstrol in mexico. ifso how do i know it is real( aslo to deca and sustanon) is stanzolol the same and winstrol. thanks


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Omega44

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 166
From:Ontario, Canada
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 12, 2000 02:13 PM

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Fuck huckel this is gold. im guna do this all year around (if that works, from what ur saying it does 2 weeks on 4 weeks off) because i only do 2 major cycles a year. i can do this inbetween. Am i missing the point of the 'short' cycle or am i right thatu can do this year around.


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WarLobo

Moderator

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posted October 12, 2000 05:46 PM

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The only problem I see with me personnly doing a short cycle is that I WANT to have my balls shrink. Hell, that's my primary motivation as they are so fricking huge - it's hard to by jeans to fit!

Hey, good thread ya all

------------------
LAte

Lobo


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Maverik

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Top Gun Flight School!!
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posted October 12, 2000 06:14 PM

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Good thread, Huck. I have been seeing many misconceptions about short cycles too and I kept meaning to post about it but you beat me to it. I see people using sust and other long acting drugs for short cycles and I am like "huh?" The main idea is to hit 'em hard and get out before your body notices (so to speak.) Good post Huck, you freak!


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Maverik

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Top Gun Flight School!!
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posted October 12, 2000 07:16 PM

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Everyone ses these short cycles and say "Well, if two weeks works good, four will be better, right?" WRONG. The two week point is non negotiable. If you want to do a short cycle, get some kind of fast acting drug like test prop and stop after two weeks. You could take something like anavar or primo for the third week because they don't inhibit test production but that's about it. Do it right or don't even bother.


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swol

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 223
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 12, 2000 10:35 PM

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hey huck,
email me.
[email protected]
got a deca winny question for you
related to a post you put out.
by the way how is the pgf2a working out for you?
swol


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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Guru

Posts: 2016
From:Timbuktu
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posted October 13, 2000 12:04 AM

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It would be working great,save the fact that some wonderful source is going on the 7 week mark for delivery...LOL!!!


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BigJay81

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 235
From:LIFT UNTIL YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 13, 2000 12:07 AM

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Hey Huck Its month 4 for me now


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HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Guru

Posts: 2016
From:Timbuktu
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posted October 13, 2000 12:10 AM

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I'm feelin'your pain brother...BIG TIME!


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BigJay81

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 235
From:LIFT UNTIL YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 13, 2000 12:12 AM

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well at least they "promise" its on the wayLOL
I'll delete this in a bit so I don't fuvk your thread


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stalker

Cool Novice

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From:
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posted October 13, 2000 09:28 AM

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Concerning short cycles: I've had experience with four. Let me give background info so that you have some of the facts:

Started lifting back in 1991 as an extreme ectomorph. Over the next 7 years, through eating 5,000 calories a day and squatting till I puked, I put on 30 pounds of LBM. Laugh away at such measly gains, but I earned each of those pounds through blood and sweat, and I'm proud of that achievement.

Then I read Nelson Montana's "steroids for health" back in the fall of 1998. Since I had only gained two pounds of weight that year, I threw in the towel and decided to try the pharmaceutical route. I did four identical cycles over the next two years (Winter '98, Summer '99, Winter '99,and Summer '00). They each looked as follows:

Week 1: 600mg Primo and 50mg Dbol/day
Week 2: 400mg Primo and 40mg Dbol/day
Week 3: 30mg dbol/day

After each cycle I would go on creatine for 12 weeks. Now I understand the whole reason of 2on/4off with short acting esters is to minimize suppression of natural test levels and to be able to do 7-8 cycles per year. For various reasons, doing that many cycles was not appropriate to me. The results were as follows: 1st cycle: 7 pounds, 2nd-4th cycles: 5 pounds. So I have gained a grand total of 22 pounds over the last two years. As of this date, I still have 19 of them.

Again, a lot of guys will laugh at this. But for someone who busted their ass over 7 years (how many of you would have given up!?) to gain 30 pounds, gaining almost 20 more in another 2 was more than I could ever dream for.


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Maverik

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 644
From:Top Gun Flight School!!
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posted October 13, 2000 04:23 PM

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I am not going to laugh at it, stalker. I think that is great. You have managed to add 22 lbs of muscle without all the sides most of us go through and without shutting down test production and that is very impressive. Good for you. I was originally planning on stacking fina and dbol for my short cycles, but I have now decided to do test prop only cycles with propecia. This is due to the fact that I am starting to lose a little hair here recently.


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Pharm Animal

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 200
From:Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 14, 2000 01:30 AM

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BUMP!

let's wear this subject into the ground fellas

------------------
>|===|--
Take care,
P.A.


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