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  Glucophage (Metformin) ...My experiment...HELP

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Author Topic:   Glucophage (Metformin) ...My experiment...HELP
ajc

Freak

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Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 10, 2000 12:16 AM

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We have a shortage of bros who have actually used it, so I got a box. Now I have 3 questions. I know it hightens insulin sensitivity, but...

1. How much? 425mg 2x/day or 850mg 2x/day?

2. When? Obviously post-workout and when else?

3. Should I wait till I start my cycle or do it now so I know what it does without AS...I'm afraid I won't be able to tell when I'm sticking 500mg test and 300mg EQ in my ass.

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IVANHOE

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 87
From:Mexico D.F.
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posted October 10, 2000 12:57 AM

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1-850mg 2x/day
2-after breakfast and post-workout
3-start with your cycle & take plenty of carbo.

Si de algo nos vamos a morir....que sea de algo grave.


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d1734

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 340
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posted October 10, 2000 01:00 AM

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i say take w/ the cycle. sure, you won't know what it does alone but you can compare it to the same (or similar) cycle without metformin if you have done one. im sure the stuff isn't gonna be dramatic or anything by itself, but the stuff is cheap and if you think it gives you a noticable affect then its probably worth it.


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Fonz

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 91
From:Spain(Madrid) and England
Registered: Jun 2000

posted October 10, 2000 08:40 AM

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Yep, it increases glucose oxidation by about 10-40%. Dosages range anywhere from 1700mg to a maximum 2550mg. Anything less than 1700mg will do nothing. It is taken with carbs, to increase the amount of glucose that enters the muscle cells(much like lipoic acid), also it disposes of any excess glucose to a small degree.


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ColumboWeiser

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 76
From:Slovokia
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posted October 10, 2000 10:55 AM

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does this work well with a cutting cycle of clen t3 and primo?
can anyone offer anymore help?

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Building a body made for sex!!


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ajc

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posted October 10, 2000 11:27 AM

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Good info guys. I'm also trying to find out how long it's active in the body.


And, yes it would be very useful while dieting. Especially if you were using an extremely low carb diet. If I remember correctly, DocJ used it during a diet.

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Davidd

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 89
From:Ohio
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posted October 10, 2000 01:37 PM

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And it gives you some nice diarrea!! Hershy squirt City!!


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ajc

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posted October 10, 2000 02:16 PM

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Well, now I know not to take it before I hit the clubs. Chicks hate smelly farts.

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cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted October 10, 2000 02:26 PM

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If you have trouble getting in enough calories on a cycle, then Metformin is not for you. Metformin slows down intestinal motility and will cause a big appetite reduction. If this is a problem then leave it to a dieting phase.


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ajc

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posted October 10, 2000 02:28 PM

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My cycle will include 300mg of EQ per week. Will this possibly counteract the appetite suppression?

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Hardcore4Evr

Amateur Bodybuilder

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posted October 10, 2000 04:54 PM

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Appetite reduction? Did i hear that right? Damn, i have some coming my way soon, and was going to take them during my current cycle. Like AJC said, if you were taking 300mg of EQ would it counter-act your reduced hunger? Im taking 600mg a week now......so im sure ill be getting very hungry soon. Then i can shift into 6th gear and start taking in about 6-7000 calories instead of 4-5.

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ajc

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posted October 10, 2000 05:00 PM

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Like I said...We have a shortage of bros with Glucophage experience...A lot of bros just say "fuckit" and use insulin.

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cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted October 10, 2000 06:38 PM

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AJC, I am not sure if EQ can counter the appetite reduction caused by Metformin. Due to metformin's ability to slow down glucose absorption, there will be a feeling of heaviness in the stomach due to fluid retention in the intestines. You can only try it and see.


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dannyb20

Cool Novice

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From:miami, fl
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posted October 10, 2000 06:44 PM

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Should this be taken before, during, or after a meal?

Danny


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ajc

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posted October 10, 2000 06:46 PM

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Thanks cockdezl...

Another good question...Take it before/with/after a high carb meal?

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Jazin26

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posted October 10, 2000 07:26 PM

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Always take Glucophage with food and water. I work with diabetics and when they take it without food or milk, they get upset stomaches and headaches. I've used it in the past and found it effective in combating the blood sugar swings you get from consuming large amount of carbs in one sitting. I also got some pretty good pumps. I'd reccommend using 850 mg 2x day, 1 definitely with your post-workout meal. Hope this helps.


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Anabolicum Mister

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 706
From:Canada
Registered: Mar 2000

posted October 10, 2000 07:34 PM

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I have been using it on a ketogenic diet for the last month and a half to speed descent into ketosis. I am only taking 1700mg/day, 2-3 days/wk until I'm in ketosis. I haven't been using it during the carb up. Here is some info for you:

Description: Metformin is an oral biguanide antidiabetic agent similar to phenformin, a drug that was withdrawn from US marketing in 1977 due to the development of lactic acidosis. The risk for this adverse reaction is considerably lower with metformin, however. Metformin represents a drug with actions that differ from, yet compliment, those of the sulfonylureas. Compared to glyburide in non-insulin-dependent diabetics, metformin was found to achieve similar glycemic control but metformin lead to a higher incidence of digestive complaints than glyburide.[713] Metformin was introduced in Europe in the 1950's but was not approved by the FDA until December 30, 1994. It is approved for use in the US for treatment of NIDDM (Type II diabetes mellitus) either as monotherapy or in combination with sulfonylureas, alpha-glucosidase inhibitors, or with insulin.

Mechanism of Action: Although its mechanism of action has not been clearly determined, decreased hepatic gluconeogenesis is thought to be the primary therapeutic effect of metformin in NIDDM.[1017] In addition, metformin appears to improve utilization of glucose in skeletal muscle and adipose tissue by increasing cell membrane glucose transport. This effect may be due to improved binding of insulin to insulin receptors since metformin is not effective in diabetics without some residual functioning pancreatic islet cells.[1156] Other mechanisms may include a decreased intestinal glucose absorption, however, this has only been observed in animals.[1156] Unlike the sulfonylureas, metformin rarely causes hypoglycemia since it does not significantly change insulin concentrations. An important distinction is that sulfonylureas increase insulin secretion thus making them useful in non-obese patients with NIDDM while metformin improves insulin resistance, a common pathophysiologic finding in obese patients with NIDDM.[1156] Metformin causes a 10�20% decrease in fatty-acid oxidation and a slight increase in glucose oxidation. Unlike phenformin, metformin does not inhibit the mitochondrial oxidation of lactate unless plasma concentrations of metformin become excessive (i.e., in patients with renal failure) and/or hypoxia is present.[1018]

Clinically, metformin lowers fasting and postprandial hyperglycemia. The decrease in fasting plasma glucose is approximately 25�30%. Unlike oral sulfonylureas, metformin rarely causes hypoglycemia. Thus, metformin demonstrates more of an antihyperglycemic action than a hypoglycemic action. Metformin does not cause weight gain and in fact, may cause a modest weight loss due to drug-induced anorexia. Metformin also decreases plasma VLDL triglycerides resulting in modest decreases in plasma triglycerides and total cholesterol. Patients receiving metformin show a significant improvement in hemoglobin A1c, and a tendency toward improvement in the lipid profile, especially when baseline values are abnormally elevated.

Pharmacokinetics: Metformin is administered as an oral tablet. The bioavailability of metformin is 50�60%. Food decreases the extent and slightly delays the absorption of metformin, however, it is recommended to be taken with meals.[1156] Metformin is distributed rapidly into peripheral body tissues and fluids and appears to distribute slowly into erythrocytes and to a deep tissue compartment (most likely GI tissues). The highest concentrations of metformin are found in the GI tract (10 times the concentrations in the plasma) and lower concentrations in the kidney, liver, and salivary gland tissue. Metformin does not bind to liver or plasma proteins. It is not metabolized by the liver and this fact may explain why the risk of lactic acidosis is much less for metformin than for phenformin (i.e., approximately 10% of patients have an inherited defect in the ability to metabolize phenformin).[1156] Metformin is excreted by the kidneys, largely unchanged, through an active tubular process. Approximately 30% of an oral dose is excreted in the feces, presumably as unabsorbed metformin and about 90% of a dose is excreted by the kidneys within 24 hours. The plasma half-life is approx. = 6.2 hours and the blood half-life is approx. = 17.6 hours in patients with normal renal function. Half-life is increased in patients with renal impairment. Metformin is removed with hemodialysis.


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IVANHOE

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 87
From:Mexico D.F.
Registered: Feb 2000

posted October 11, 2000 12:01 AM

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How long is acting?
Intestinal absortion 6 hrs.
Maximum concentration in plasma 27-48 minutes.
Plasmatic life 1.25-1.40 hrs.

Si de nos vamos a morir....que sea de algo grave.


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DocJ

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted October 11, 2000 12:13 AM

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Yes, I used it just like AM did on the BODYOPUS diet. I used it on the carb up days also and thought my skin was going to tear with simple movements like drinking a protein shake!! I have not used it with AS yet but will have some experience in this area in a month or so...

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ajc

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posted October 11, 2000 12:20 AM

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Anibolicum...You the man- Nice post.

DocJ...I haven't seen you around for a while.

So, should I wait until my cycle or use it now?

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DocJ

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted October 11, 2000 12:26 AM

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I would wait until the cycle. You have used those compounds before correct? If you have, it's likely that you will be able to tell how effective it is...especially if EQ increases your appetite like it does to me.

BTW - I'm starting up a new clinic...been busy.

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Fonz

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 91
From:Spain(Madrid) and England
Registered: Jun 2000

posted October 11, 2000 07:48 AM

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Instead of using Metformin, which gives my mouth a metalic taste and stomach problems, why not just use Alpha Lipoic Acid, it works much better than Metformin by increasing glucose clearance by about 40-50%, and is far safer. Basically what this means is that you could consume 40-50% more carbs(which would further increase your glycogen stores) during a cycle and not gain an ounce of fat.

godspeed


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ajc

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posted October 11, 2000 11:23 AM

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What makes you say that Alpha Lipoic Acid is more effective? Just curious.

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DocJ

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted October 11, 2000 01:44 PM

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I don't doubt that ALA increases glucose clearance at that rate but I've used both and my experience was that glucophage works much better.

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Primo_man

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 334
From:Bloomsburg, PA
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posted October 11, 2000 05:37 PM

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I agree with the Doc, metformin is much more effective than ALA from my experiences. I used both on the ketogenic diet for carbups and for decent into ketosis and noticed an definate change when I switched from ALA to metformin. Better pumps and I decreased the time it takes to enter ketosis by a full day!!! I used 3 850mg tabs a day, sometimes 4 to enter ketosis more quickly.


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Fonz

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 91
From:Spain(Madrid) and England
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posted October 12, 2000 07:29 AM

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I think that ALA is far more effective because it gives you what I call a double whammy effect. It is superior to metformin in glucose clearing(40-50% compared to 10-40%). Then, since its both fat and water soluble, it is a universal antioxidant, apart from the fact that it increases oxygen transport to the heart, which as people on gear know(gear increases blood viscosity), is something we should ben thinking about.


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