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 Why clomid use should be saved for post cycle...
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| Author | Topic: Why clomid use should be saved for post cycle... | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1968 |
O.K.,my friend Twisted_Steel posed this dilemma the other night and created pandemonium and furor amongst clomid gobblers.I want to add to T.S.'s argument here from yet another standpoint of why clomid use should be saved for post-cycle only use:Clomids ability to restore testosterone levels stems from its effects on blocking the inhibitory action of ESTROGEN on the hypothalamus and pituitary.Note the key word here:ESTROGEN,not ANDROGEN.Moderate to heavy androgen usage(which composes most of our cycles)will also inhibit these glands,and clomid will NOT rectify this impairment,as it is ANDROGENIC inhibition,not ESTROGENIC.This is precisely why clomid being taken during a moderate to heavy test cycle will exhibit little positive effect,as inhibition(of testosterone)is being caused more by heavy androgens rather than estrogen(which as stated above is what clomid is blocking).Post cycle,as androgen levels return to normal and estrogens are still elevated somewhat,is the ideal time for clomid to work its magic.I can hear the uproar now,calling for the lynching of HUCKLEBERRY & Twisted,hahaha......    | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 214 |
I agree fully my brotha!!! BUMP IT UP!!! ------------------  | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 856 |
I hear ya! But what do you think about gyno? I use the clomid eod or every thrid day during because it binds to the estrogen receptor and doesnt activate the receptor like ESTROGEN would. So since it's preventing estrogen from doing its job that is very COOL! I agree 100% that you cannot stop inhibition during the cycle unless using less than 200mg of gear per week or maybe 300mg for primo... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
Very good point Drexx.THIS is where clomid would have it's usefulness sharing properties similar to nolvadex,but the thing that worries me here is,would it not have a desensitization on its binding effects post cycle if one used it throughout their entire cycle EOD?Maybe,maybe not.I would rather play it safe and use Nolvadex(which is more selective in breast tissue,having no affinity to the hypothalamus & pituitary)during the cycle,as not to desensitize this process,then clomid post cycle,to keep its reaction at its strongest,when it is needed most.Just my opinion,based on all the evidence I've aquired. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 856 |
Good poing HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex! The only problem I have with nolvadex is that it's rumored to inhibit gains during the cycle. Do you find it doesn't inhibit your gains? How much do you use during the cycle? ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 38 |
So is post cycle good enough to get everything kinda back to normal. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 120 |
great post Huck! i agree totally. and i also think that by using clomid during cycle for gyno prevention will desensitize clomid for when it is needed most, POST CYCLE! like all drugs, your body will build a tolerance to it and maybe even become immune to clomid's effects. Huck, i know in the past you've shown some curiosity about the use of pgf2a to cure gyno. well bro i will let you know. i just got the pgf and i've had some mild gyno for years. so i plan on being the the test subject. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
Yes Drexx,I do find as a not only my own results,but as a general consensus,that Nolvadex will inhibit gains by approximately 5%.This simply equates to if I was planning on a 20lb gain from a particular cycle,then I would gain 19 instead,with the addition of nolvadex.I don't mind such a small inhibition at all,which by the way,is mostly edema(water-retention)related.So in a sense,it isn't inhibiting MUSCLE gained,mainly water which in turn can have a little effect on maybe not gaining as much strength.But the difference is very minimal,and I actually like the hardness of my muscles while using Nolvadex. [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited October 08, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 856 |
If it's only water then I don't care but I heard it blocks growth factors like IGF-1. I guess I would have to try it myself and see the difference. By the way where did you get that 5% figure How much do you take? 20mg eod? ------------------ | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
PSYCO:I will be very interested in this.However,I urge you to go about it CAUTIOUSLY,as the mammary gland is RIPE with nerve endings.Just ask our veteran PGF2a user Jeff_Rys,hehheh.... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
Drexx,Ive arrived at that figure from many years of experimenting on myself as well as feedback from hundreds of bodybuilders that I have corresponded with.It is a general figure,not a fact.Obviously it can vary from one person to another.Just a generalization. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 856 |
Ok Huck! I believe you  But now answer my question: How much nolva do you take during your cycle? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 62 |
huck i agree with u all the way. saves money and seems like taking it during cycle is kind of a waste of time. but, as we've seen, some swear by taking it during and after. to each his own. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
Drexx:Having a pre-disposition to gyno,I found that 10mgs/daily was not strong enough for me when on a moderate to heavy cycle of androgens.I still experienced aggrevation of the problem.I doubled the daily dosage to 20mgs,and Wa-La!Never had any problems since.Again,just my personal experience. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1024 |
Psyco, i don't think you can cure gyno with PGF2a, since it is a fat killer, not gland killer. But let us know your findings. Don't forget if there is an improvement, that this will probably go away after a week once you stop shooting that area. He Huck, i am almost done with the PGF2a, 4 amps of 5 cc left. I will post the results around 20/10. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
I cant wait,Ironman,hehheh..... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
Back up she go's,for the afternoon crew...... | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 9 |
Huckleberry, I think you've been commissioned by George Spellwin to keep this (non-select) board interesting. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 52 |
ok i read through all this and still i am confused. on my next cycle i was planning clomid EOD during are you guys saying that it will hamper my gains or are you just saying it is a waste of time and money?? thanks for your help | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 52 |
bump.... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1968 |
Mighty mouse-Its not that it will hamper your gains necessarily,its more that it is unnecessary to use for test saving purposes while using heavy androgens.Its use(for test recovery) is better suited for post-cycle,when androgen levels have diminished somewhat,and estrogen is more the inhibitory factor.But if you do not have access to nolvadex as an anti-estrogen during the cycle,then clomid can be substited for it.I personally would rather use nolvadex as my anti-estro during the cycle,and clomid as my test recovery agent post-cycle. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 52 |
thanks for clearing that up. that was exactly the reply i ws looking for. this board is such a help in keeping me healthy while on my gear. thanks bro | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 194 |
ok huck that was your opinion that i respect very much, and maybe i agree. But at this point i 'm a little confused. i don't know what to do anymore. clomid eod or throughout? i 'm wandering why mods such as e2, the ranger or even 2thick are keeping themselves out of this discussion. i really would like to have them giving us their thoughts. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 225 |
there having tea in that SELECTed area agian!lol j/k bros! id be there jsut dont have the $$ right now. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 332 |
20mg eod or 20mg ed for a gyno prone person like myself | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 856 |
I too would like a mods opinion. Especially E2 the clomid lover!!! ------------------ |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted October 08, 2000 01:13 PM