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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Primobolan Depot & Oxnadrolone Stack??
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| Author | Topic: Primobolan Depot & Oxnadrolone Stack?? | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 11 |
I am still at least 6-12 months away from doing my first cycle, but I regularly follow this board, trying to learn all I can so that when I do take the plunge I do it right.
I was wondering, however, since Anavar does not effect the hypothalamo hypophysial testicular axis at all, and Primo does so only at very high doses, might a 1st cycle consisting of a Primobolan Injectable and Anavar give solid, albeit not huge gains (10-15# assuming diet, training are correct) with little chance of inhibiting gains from a future cycle with stronger anabolics and test compounds. I was thinking of 200mg Primo every five days and 30-40 mg Anavar daily for eight weeks. My personal Stats: Age: 31. Lifting for about 1 year. 5'-10" 173# (Up from 155 three months ago). Would this be worthwhile?: 2. Wouldn't a cycle like this still leave you open to do a "real" cycle (Deca/Sust250/Dbol etc.) later and get those same big gains as the bodies HPT / Hormone axis will never have been effected.
4. I know this would be a pricey$ cycle, so lets leave that out of the discussion. Thanks in advance for any info or advice.    | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1060 |
NO. Your virginity would be lost, while these 2 drugs may not cause this seperately, together they would. At 31 you can't afford to do this. Your natural free test levels have already subsided from (average) 420 at 20 to (average) 300 at 31. You need that big first cycle even more because of your advanced age. You would get stronger for sure and bigger but I wouldn't recommend wasting your first cycle like this. The cycles you mentioned up there are NOT full bore especially for someone your age. (I'm older than you)  | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 738 |
I'll agree with Ulter, people seem to be so afraid of test, let me tell you that most people's body accepts it very well. If you're worried about gyno simply have some Arimidex on hand you'll be fine, use clomid and all the bases are covered. A stack of 500mgs/Sust and 400mgs/Primo would be a nice first cycle. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 671 |
First of all, kudos for doing some research up front. I think that you are right in stating that the stack you mentioned will have little effect on the HPTA. Thus, because your body never ceased producing testosterone, you will avoid a crash and keep your gains. But I don't think the HPTA is the reason (certainly not the only one) for a decrease in a steroids effectiveness with time. 1. Do Anavar and Primo hit the same receptors, or will they compliment each other. 2. Wouldn't a cycle like this still leave you open to do a "real" cycle (Deca/Sust250/Dbol etc.) later and get those same big gains as the bodies HPT / Hormone axis will never have been effected. I doubt if the HPTA is responsible (at least solely) for the decrease in a steroids effectiveness over time. However, I think you would still be open for a real cycle, even if you choose to use test or deca. 3. Will the moderate gains from a cycle like this be easier to keep. Yes, since you will avoid a crash, will have low water retention, and slower gains are usually easier to keep.
[This message has been edited by Anabolicum Mister (edited October 01, 2000).] | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 11 |
Thanks for the good responses! I guess losing your juice virginity is more a function of having artificial substances bind with receptors than it is with effecting your natural hormone production. I guess the thing to do then (if you can afford it) is to throw one of these (Primo/Anavar) in at the end of a stronger cycle to solidify your gains I often see that done with Primo. Would Anavar also work well for that? Both? Lets say you did a Dbol/Deca/Sust Cycle and are coming off the Sust & Deca at the end. At about the same time you start hitting the Clomid or HCG to get your own system jump started again hit the Primo and/or Anavar as it has no effect on your hopefully now rising natural test levels. In this case could you run the cycle a little longer (up to 12 weeks) after finishing up the Sust & Deca (at about 8 weeks) as the Anavar/Primo should not effect the HPT axis? Should you bother taking only 1, or both? Is this just too many different kinds of juice (5 in one cycle)? I know that we would now be talking about big $$ here and quite a cocktail af varrying drugs Oh and to Ulter, thanks Bro, being 30+ never bothered me much....but now I feel OLD. By the way, are you recommending something STRONGER thab Dbol/Deca/Sust or Dbol/Eq/Sust for a 1st cycle? Scooter | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
Deca/sust/d-bol is the cycle most quoted on this board, it's a good one... But I am finding that I like Oxandrolone better than any other oral. I am not a fan of d-bol myself anymore. It is a 30+ year old compound that's more toxic, starts off your cycle very well but leaves you with a lot of water, and doesn't do much in the way of permanent gains. I'd rather wait a few weeks for the bar to go up easier. If I was to try and save money I would dump the primo before the Ox. Start with it and stay on it. [This message has been edited by ulter (edited October 01, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 671 |
I wouldn't run the anavar for the whole 12 weeks because of its liver toxicity. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
AM where are you reading this stuff. You have a lot of misinformation about Oxandrolone. Ox has a very high anabolic effect with a very low potential for androgenic activity.. 1:13. Ox is the only steroid that has shown to increase liver function in aids patients in a study done in Italy. It is not very toxic to your liver. They give it to girls as young as 9 years old to treat Turner's Syndrome and they are on for several months at a time. Not mention thousands of Jerry's Kids who are on it. That's right... it's the only steroid approved by the FDA for CHILDREN. It is very safe to take for extended periods. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 159 |
hey ulter...i found this article awhile ago..thought it was interesting so might you hope this helps jimbaker woops forgot the link....LOL http://www.medibolics.com/oxandrin2.htm ------------------ NEW BOARD "HUGEFREAKS" STOP BY AND CHECK IT OUT http://pub17.ezboard.com/bbodybuildingdiscussion LIVE AND LEARN BROS [This message has been edited by jimbaker (edited October 01, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
Thanks jimbaker it's a nice article. But all I see is one mans opinion and it quotes one study done 20 years ago. Now go to the Naional Library of Medicine and pull down the 296 studies from around the world that refute the findings of that one 20 year old study. I'll have to trust the word of the FDA and those Univerisites and Clinics who have much more recent data. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 232 |
If I had the money I would do this. he..he.. WEEK___OXANDRINed___
Any theories on what would happen if you took over 200mg per day? Let's see. . . at four bucks a tab. 300mg/2.5mg=120tabsX$4=$480edX7=$3360X11weeks=$36,960 WOW If you can do this cycle, please share the love...
[This message has been edited by Zeacky (edited October 01, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
UH.. you'd get bigger and stronger? No need to pyramid though. heh heh | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 671 |
Ulter, I steadfastly disagree. Sure it has been shown to increase liver function in patients with AIDS and in some people with alcoholic liver cirrhosis. But improvements in those that have an underlying pathology hardly constitutes calling oxandrolone a drug that is not liver toxic. From the medline abstracts that I've seen, there are just as many reports of elevated liver enzymes and associated hepatotoxicity with the use of this drug. [This message has been edited by Anabolicum Mister (edited October 01, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
You are grouping this drug in with all the other 17aa steroids. Maybe they'll give it a new classification.<grin> Don't all steroids close epiphyseal plates in childrens bones? Of course they do. Oh wait..this one doesn't. AM tylenol is liver toxic. But to what degree? If this drug is not toxic to those who are weakened by illness then why would you think it is toxic to those who are healthy. NO, the medline abstacts show no such thing. First of all, more than half of the abstracts are only the titles of the studies done and show nothing about their content. Subscribe and read the reports if you want to quote what medline studies show. AM don't take the stuff.  [This message has been edited by ulter (edited October 01, 2000).] | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 11 |
Great info guys. Can anyone offer some guidance with regards to finishing off a cycle (DBOL/DECA/SUST) with Primo AND/OR Oxandrolone? Ulter seems to think Oxandrolone through the WHOLE cycle is worthwhile. Is this in lieu of DBOL? (which of course is used to jump start the cycle for the 1st 4-6 weeks) They have very different effects. Is the Anavar as quick to effect (different effects of course) your system as DBOL? Might the strength gains of Anavar help boost your gains when the DECA/Sust kick in about week 4. I really like the idea of fitting Primo and Anavar in at the END of a big cycle for 4-5 weeks to solidify the gains. I am leaning towards the following structure in my 1st cycle: Weeks: Of course the complimentary Clomid, Arimidex, etc. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 11 |
Near the end of above post I meant "8-12: Primo and Anavar OR only one of these?" | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 671 |
Of course I am grouping it with other 17aa steroids because it is one. Anabolic steroids are alkylated at the 17 carbon position to prevent their destruction by the liver during first pass. To my knowledge, this is what causes the hepatotoxicity. Unfortunately, I do not have the type of money to subscribe to all the various journals out there. So I am often limited to the abstracts that are available, although I occasionally make a trip to the library for an interesting article | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
You don't need to subscribe to all the journals. Just Medline. I didn't dispell the myth the doctors and researchers did. BTW I don't generally agree with all of the things the FDA does. No one does. But when they come out in favor of an AS and approve it's use as widely as they have this one... I like those guys.. and I'll have to stand on their side of this issue. For now. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
Scooter I am sorry. This is your thread and I got into it with AM and got away from your question. Yes my suggestion is in lieu of the d-bol take the Ox. Why? It's just me. I have said this before a dozen times. D-bol is the drug that makes clouds go away. It will make you feel great, it will make you strong and big (mostly water) and it is a fun drug to take. I have had problems with that last part. I can't even have it in my house because I like it too much. I took it for over a year once. (I'm fine AM, I know you'll worry about me) But you are not me and you will probably do fine with it for 4 weeks. You're idea of adding the Ox in the last 4 weeks is a good one and a hell of a lot cheaper. Yes you feel your strength increase from the Ox right away compared to your injectables (and you get to keep that strength no extra charge) but the d-bol will make you feel better faster. BTW if your Clomid and Arimidex is complimentary... comp me. heh heh | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 671 |
Damn Ulter...dbol for a year? And now you have an addiction? Too much man. You must be huge. I should be more careful with whom I argue. In any case I think we have finally found something to agree on. I like the idea of adding the Ox in the last 4 weeks too. D-bol for a year bro? NOTHING must be liver toxic to you | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
AM 17 years ago when I did that it actually wasn't that uncommon. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 409 |
Hey Ulter, I thought I was the only one who got hooked on dbol. I stopped after 7 weeks but man that is the best feeling in the world. It is kind of like the feeling you get after smoking a couple of joints and then start to sober up. Your mind is completely focused and relaxed at the same time. It made me feel like I was a higher being or something. Anyways the FDA says that oxandrin CAN cause blood filled cysts to form in the liver because it is a 17aa steroid but as we have all read and experienced, this is highly unlikely. The FDA also said that the LD50 for oxandrin was something like 5,000mg/kg of bodyweight. In otherwords it would be impossible to kill yourself with oxandrin! I agree with you about its safety but technically it could cause liver damage. Later, |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted October 01, 2000 12:41 AM
DBOL/DECAorEQ/SUST/ARIMIDEX/CLOMID/ANAVAR/PRIMO)= Up to $1250 for 1st Cycle!
. Since you must subscribe to all these journals, you are certainly privy to information that I am not. So if you would care to enlighten me on the metabolism of oxandrolone by the liver, and how it differs from that of other 17aa steroids, I would be more than receptive. In addition, you would be dispelling a common "myth" that all c17aa steroids are liver toxic.