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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 With Respect to the Recent Onslaught of Newbie Trash
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| Author | Topic: With Respect to the Recent Onslaught of Newbie Trash | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1030 |
I propose and place up for vote the proposition of a Private Pay Per View/Use board for those of us INTERESTED in the educated discussion of bodybuilding as a WHOLE. Notice my selective omission of the term "ANABOLIC ANDROGENIC STEROIDS". This is not a forum to perpetuate or improve upon your illegal activities, therefore anyone who mentions any reservation to paying by credit card or online check, is obviously bound by an unclean conscious! If your only intentions are to deal or find DEALERS Then I suggest you frequent the now DEFUNCT Mesomorphosis.com discussion forum, or one of ten thousand piddle shit nickle and dime personal discussion forms errected for such endeavors! I am disgusted by the recent state of affairs of this forum. I am disgusted by the degree of stupidity which has taken roost on this forum. I am disgusted by my inability and the inablity of the intelligent veterens and moderators to filter this nonsense. I for one am willing to pay a ONE TIME FEE. To gain access to such a board! Who will Second the Motion? I have never thought much of "bumping" but I will bump this mother fucker to the top until it recieves its proper attention. I will say it for those who can't, ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT, its time for some change ------------------ [This message has been edited by Twisted_Steel (edited September 29, 2000).]      | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
I am always with you TS. You didn't say how much. I don't care but I'll bet it comes up more than once. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 181 |
BUMP!!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 260 |
I agree. Pay per view is a good idea. It'll weed out a lot of dumbasses and cocky fucks who just want to start shit.
[This message has been edited by timac (edited September 29, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 175 |
Well i'm in college, and i'm broke.hehe, But what the hell, i can get some money together to pay for a fee. I'll bump this for you T.S... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1030 |
The monetary issue shouldn't be modled after these porn sights.
I just want barriers to be errected. Tall enough to keep the ambivilant trouble maker trash out. Keep this forum for the general public. Let it be used to answer QUESTION NUMBER 10,0001 ON HOW CLOMID WORKS
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Guru 
Posts: 2236 |
Praise the lord, where do I send my cash (thats right cash). It has to happen IMHO. Slopain | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 6 |
I think there is a conflict of interest there. If you have a section that is "pay for view" and is for discussion of everything bodybuilding (minus AS) that is fine. But then anyone posting there will never be able to post anything about AS on any of the other sections. For example, "Expert Poster" pays up with his credit card and gains access. But then later on, "Expert Poster" posts in the Counterfiets section that his last Propionate was a fake. Now anyone who wants to know can tie his credit card to his admitted usage... I'm not against the idea, but this is a concern. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 673 |
Sounds good to me TS. I think a money order might be safer, but whatever. I'm in! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 260 |
who are we gonna make fun of, if we do not have newbies and regular dumbasses(myself not excluded)to laugh at, we'll have nothing to do.. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1030 |
Thats right dude, E2, Ranger, Decaman, Slopain, WCP, Myself, who am I leaving out, fuck, wont go around posting our fucking PRICE LISTS for Vetrinary and Non-Vetrinary schedualed drugs. Just like we dont do it here, not like we would, because people like us have the GODAMN Common sense to differintiate between the discussion of topic A, and the sale of IT. Whoa, am I just a genius, or do I simply possess a fractional barely recognizable portion of COMMON SENSE???? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Twisted_Steel (edited September 29, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 580 |
I'm in for sure. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1030 |
Whats more, now that Im on my freakin soap box. Some of you monkeys need to look up the term "decorum" because you Idiots, and you know who you are, have no fucking clue how to broach certain subjects! Typical E-mail Correspondance from an Idiot: Hey Twisted_Steel your a wise "bro" can you hook me up with some dball" "HEY, E2 since your a moderator and all, can you send me some deca, heres my address" "Hey guys, here is a picture of the bottle of Revorfit-B I just bought! Do you think its legit"? "Hey guys, take a look at my recent photograph of 10 thousand dollers worth of steroids" Mind you the photograph was obviously taken on the monkeys bed, no doubt posted on the monky's ISP free webspace, which can easily be tracted down to determine an EXACT fucking address! LOL
Bump this post up, its time for a reality check! ------------------ [This message has been edited by Twisted_Steel (edited September 29, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 74 |
Bump, for the monkey fucks who post pics of $10,000 worth of gear in their trunk where you can read their fuckin license plate. ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2631 |
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........Yessssssssssssss!!!! Folks, people like Twisted Steele, macro, E2, Cockdezel, fuckinshredded...etc. Keep us on our toes....they make us think for ourselves, or rather you should!!! You know your shit Bro....Yup, cause we busted our ass and read and researched this shit....just when you think you got it down, someone asks a simple question that forces you to research the answer....I, along with everyone else can't answer everything, and won't respond to stupid, childish jibber-jabber!!! Type your question and look it over.....think to yourself, can I find the answer to this myself...give it a try....Mods and vets live for good debatable questions that run in the neighborhood of 80+ responses....gives us a little time to jack each other up....everyone learns from the topic............!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be smart people....Be polite if possible....and yes, I agree with TS...decourm.........Later!!!!!!!! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 260 |
holy shit superdave....is that a true story? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1303 |
Oh shit he's on a rampage I love it! You tell them twisted , I am behind you 100%. You fuckers know who you are, he is so right it isn't even funny. This board USED to be about a discussion about A.S., with a little bullshit thrown in. It is now the complete opposite. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 178 |
TS, You've seen me post this on another board, I'll paste it here:
quote: Later, | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 194 |
TS I'll bump this all night like I did all night with my girl but, the money thing, I can't do because I am what they call a broke ass college football player. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 86 |
YEAH... SIGN ME UP... IT WILL ALSO KEEP THE KIDS OUT.... SEEMS LIKE ALOT OF JUVENILES ON THIS BOARD, DAYDREAMING OF WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO HAVE A DRIVERS LICENSE OR THIER OWN CAR AND REAL GEAR... ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 120 |
ill bump for agreement. ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5032 |
Twisted Steel is right on 100%, the monotony of this board is unbearable at times. I'll tell you guys i used to post answers to almost every question that i knew an answer to. We used to have wonderful discussions on this board that stimulated your mind and forced us to go out and push ourselves to try and find the answers, i used to go and read tons of journals to answer a question that intrigued me. NO longer do we see those questions. I know for a fact that macro doesn't frequent this board due to the lack of content. So many of the bros are leaving because of the repetition. It's so hard to see the same questions post over and over again, and the childish post are unbelievable. I honestly can't believe half of the things that are said and written on this board. It's rather unfortunate, I want to thank Geroge for providing the forum to us, and i'll always help out over here, because i don't want people to make some of the same mistakes i did. The need for a more advanced board is evident. Now there is the EF select which George has , but unfortunatly it's run though email only. If we could get another ubb forum for EF select that would be excellent!! The problem i have with the majority of the newbies is that i feel as though they're becoming younger and younger, less willing to take the time to learn what they're doing to their bodies. All they want is to shoot some steroids because they're heard how incredible they are, the ignorance is astounding! I'm all for a pay site and i've spoken to george about this a few times, i dont' think it's in his cards and it makes sense to me. Well perhaps someone else will set one up.... ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 169 |
I'm all for it! | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 126 |
YOU CAN COUNT ON ME BRO.....LET'S DO IT! Genome<> | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
I know someone who could set it up. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1303 |
You do do you, I think some of us oughta talk, lemme know. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 430 |
Yup, Steel is pissed! heh heh! I'd pay for the board, because it's very usefull to me, but the price has to be reasonable. I agree, some of the total filth I see posted HAS to come from the mentality of 15yr olds, or less. I'll bump this sucker to the moon. Adios! ------------------ "Don't eat me! eat Dredd! he works out!" - From Judge Dredd. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1081 |
Count on me too. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 184 |
I'll bump this up for ya' bro...although I've only here for a few months, I have to say it has gone down hill in the last few weeks...I'd be more than willing to pay a little to get information, almost more BECAUSE I'm so new and am thankful for the intelligent people that are here and have been kind enough to answer my own "newbie" questions, although (not to sound cocky) I think my first posts weren't as stupid as some I read everyday...anyway, I like the idea and will look for more info on it... ------------------ | ||
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Novice
Posts: 10 |
Since all of the mods and vets are posting on this thread, can one of you tell me where I can score some Deca Durabolin. I want to start juicing, but I just don't know where to score. And how much is it, and how much should I take, and I heard I should use Clomid, what is that? Twisted Steel you seem to know what's up, so I'd like to hear from you! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 671 |
I agree with the problem. The solution on the other hand is a little more complicated. I'm not sure that a membership fee will put an end to stupid posts, especially if anyone can buy a membership. Perhaps what is needed is a private forum open to invite only. I know some of these boards already exist, but they usually move too slow, and people lose interest. Invites would be sent out to those who are thought to be able to contribute in a positive manner. We already know who they are - at least the ones who reside on this board. Members (even newbies) could be invited based on their proven track record of intelligent or thought provoking posts, or even those that have shown a willingness to educate themselves and others. It would be like an on-line anabolic mensa group...heheh. I'm just throwing some other ideas out there. I'd be interested in hearing others. [This message has been edited by Anabolicum Mister (edited September 29, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
TS has it right I believe. Most kids don't have a credit card they could charge something from say "Steroid Discussion Group" on. Mom and Dad might raise more than an eyebrow if that appeared on their statement. There is no perfect solution but that would also eliminate the casual source posting. It definitely has it's advantages. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 64 |
BIG ASS BUMP FOR MY GURU... ------------------ THE UNITED CHI-TOWN FREAKS | ||
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Guru
Posts: 2236 |
I am behind this all the way. George has talked about making a pay section, and even that a private board exists. He can still have the wave of newbies coming to the regular board, but a pay board for the people who are more serious and are tired of seeing the same question repeated time after time, with no respect. Slopain | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 247 |
i am a computer science major so i will look into implementing a new board. and i know some other guys or girls could help. i wouldnt feel right holding all the fees though..i would feel like i would be scamming some how ------------------ knowledge = power | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 811 |
When I first started reading this board I thought it was great but know it's become pretty boring. Too many posts and it's always the same thing. I love reading posts by Twisted,E2,GymRatSD, Chesty and many other vets and mods. Those are the posts that make you think and learn. I would love to be part of a more advanced board to learn and discuss if you guys will have me. Please | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 24 |
i just dont see how charging a membership fee will solve this problem. even morons can come up with $20 (or whatever it is you want to charge). the "invite" only board seems like a good idea though. you can start the board with many of the more established members from this board (maybe george can even link the two somehow). once newbies such as myself prove ourselves, we can then be invited to the elite forum. this may even help the quality of threads on this board. if everyone knows that their being judged by how they contribute, they may "think" first, research by search engine second, rather than just make inane chatter. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 69 |
I'm willing to pay for any knowledge i receive! I'm New here about three weeks into it and i have never asked for a source or posted anything i could find from the search engine that is so nicely displayed! I agree alot of this stuff posted here is nonsense but not all of us are as knowledgeble as the next so we make dumb mistakes to find the answer. No flame nor am i trying to make any enemies for god sakes i have enough as it is but give us new guys a break! I imagine you was here once before! enemies i'm speaking of are jealous i was once 168lbs of fat lard but now in three years and one cycle i'm 210lbs of grade a usda choice beef! Not Huge but on my way!! Thanks for the post i believe it is neccessay but please don't hold all the new guys by some of the ignorant one please! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 68 |
I would like to start by saying Twisted_Steel is a mentor of mine as you need a dictionary to understand some of the shit he says(Makes me think!!) .Yes there are newbies who blow it for the rest of us newbies but to create some private exclusive board just for vets is ridiculous. What you'll breed is a board full of "know it alls" who have no way as much to gain than us newbies who are hungry for answers.I don't think those newbies who blow it for everyone should persuade anyone any wich way and just leave it up to the battalion of mods to deal with. [This message has been edited by Twisted91 (edited September 30, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
bro im with ya later g | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 40 |
I'll bump this up. I haven't been around long but take this very seriously. I would be willing to pay (which I think would weed out some of the B.S.) to participate. What would the criteria be for "invitation only"? I have only done one cycle and that was several years ago, but have done plenty of reading and educating myself. I never offer advice on cycles because I cannot share the experience, other than what gyno is like, but think this is a great forum to enrich my knowledge and learn from the experience of the mods and vets. The experienced people have something to offer and I hope that I would be afforded access to those resources because I am serious about it not because of how many cycles I have done. Thanks | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 979 |
Bump you T.S. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
I will give a BIG bump for this one.. I know I am not on here alot and don't post alot but I can honestly say that I learn more in here than reading the dozen or so books I have studied about A/S.. The people in here (most of them) really know their shit and aren't afraid to help you out. Yeah all of us at one time or another ask a stupid question or just get a case of rectal caranium impaction but it's human nature. I am all for a pay site and or a private board (if you choose to have me is up to you). I am really grateful to George and all the other bros that have the patience and knowledge to help all us out even when it's quite minotinous (sp?). It's also good to see the intelligence in here because alot of the world thinks we are all just big, dumb, muscleheads that only know how to accomplish the task of lifting a few weights.. Well I will end it there, end of sermon... ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 280 |
so where do I send my $$$ ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 129 |
bump | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 770 |
I'm in! Just let me know! ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 39 |
Here! Here! [This message has been edited by Swollen (edited September 30, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 88 |
I love the idea Please keep us posted ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 216 |
thats what i think , a vets only board will suck , why ? coz it will be fucking slow , im not a newbie but i dont post much on the anabolic board ive been on the board from 7 months ! and i check the boards every time im online wich is a lot ! im not a steroid expert but if i know something i just say it , coz i know some ppl need to know , maybe they r lazy , they dont search enough but anyhow i think thats what the board is about ! ps: i think that anyone who wants to post some jokes/funny stories or talk about his gym to post it on the chat board it will be more appreciated there the best thing in this board is the CONCRETE bond between its memberes that what we dont want to lost ! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 192 |
I agree...if I have to see one more newbie try to bust my chops because he hasn't been around long enough to know who has been here and who hasn't and how to behave I am going to throw up. It's rediculous. A little tact wouldn't hurt on the part of some of these ungrateful fucks. ------------------ "Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 441 |
Twisted Steel- I agree one hundred percent bro, I have never juiced before but will be in the near future; I come here to learn and some of the topics are so damm redundant it makes it hard to learn a lot; I use other sites to research but EF is my home. I've gotten help on questions that I have asked that I couldn't find the answer to, I enjoy doing the leg work it makes finding the answer so much more gratifying; Thank you George for giving us this site, personally I would have no problem paying to use it; do my next question is who do I make a check out to? Plates ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 68 |
Couldn't agree with you more. A payed board sounds really interesting...Maybe this is also a way to get the vets back that left. Anyway if the board comes I'll gladly pay for it!! B2B. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 64 |
WITH ALL THE MONEY THIS BOARD HAS SAVED ME ON CRAPPY SUPPS AND SCAMS I WOULD GLADDLY PAY FOR IT. M18 | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 943 |
I'm down with an EF select type of board. It is def needed. I don't frequent this board as much as I used to. It's a newbie haven. Theres really nothing you can do about it but find another board, a more experienced board. There are PLENTY of experienced and knowledgable bros here, and it's a shame so many have left. But in my mind this board is strictly for newbies. I still drop in time to time to help people out but TS is dead-on with this one. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 394 |
Just a couple comments on your proposal, T.S. Yes, I agree with the idea of a select forum for the serious people on this board. Will a nominal fee do it? Probably not. Oh, you will lose the kiddees playing on dad's computer, but the scammers, dealers, and buyers have the money. So do the newbies with a job. By "invitation"? Who decides this? They would have to decide based on the written word. It's not hard to sound knowledgeable by plagiarizing others articles, posts etc... cut, paste, and you are there. Why not require that a verifiable picture be submitted to the moderators - hell I'd like to see this required before handing out "elite", "guru" status. Post that photo right there with the profile, email etc. There is a guy on here who has 500+ posts and answers all kinds of steroid questions, who has never done a cycle. I like to learn from experienced people, not book smart gear experts. T.S., if you want to see the pretenders and bullshit artists head for the hills, ask em for a pic. You know what they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words". What about privacy and verifiability? Neck down shot taken next to the computer with today's topics displayed should do it. Oh sure, someone could bring in a ringer, but really, if some weasel ask me to do this for him, I'd jam his camera up his ass. We can't just dump the original board. Then you would have new people giving incorrect and dangerous advice to other new people, unchecked scamming, and a loss of revenue for George, who isn't in this just for the fun of it. When I read the board, I don't even glance at the repetitive topics, or those posted by known idiots. Twisted, I always enjoy your provocative posts, keep it up. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 385 |
you guys wanna pay for something that's free?? stupid...I guess some guys are so stuck up they can't stand posting with someone with less than 96768993 posts...you guys need to get a life... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 138 |
Right on Brother | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1303 |
Man who the hell are you, the idea is to weed out the bullshit that threatens the very exisitence of this board, and to keep the board fueled with intelligience, instead of ignorance. The more idiots that post the more the guys with knowledge can't be bothered, because it just gets to be a complete annoyance. I can tell which side of the fence you are on. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 264 |
For a good board, full of people willing to share the knowledge, I'd pay. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 611 |
I'm with you! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 79 |
yup I'm wit ya Deca, its people like that jackass brucelee who just posted looking for a source that will be the demise "spelling"? of our board!! | ||
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Novice
Posts: 10 |
Like I said on another post, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out". You mental gymnasts aren't helping anyone. See Ya! I don't think anyone would even notice that 90% of you are gone. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1030 |
I am never ceased to be amazed by the stupidity of the human race! Since when did the # of post come into play? LOL, Up this bitch goes! ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1060 |
Morning TS | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 74 |
This is pretty good except for the special invite part, there are too many bros who dont post alot yet who might be very knowledgable and they wouldnt get an invite. I agree we could have a one time fee and I also suggest a questionnaire about bodybuilding/gear etc. Its not foolproof, but if some punk kid is going to go through the trouble to answer the test he is willing to learn and not post crap. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
I think that a new member should be in a newbie discussion board that only has topics for new steriod users. It should have a "all newbies must read" before entering. It should have a page with basic information like -clomid, cycles, diet, injection procedures etc. Take about 10-15 of most asked questions by newbies and put them on a page so that they have to read it everytime before entering. Make it mandatory for all newcomers to have at least 200-400 posts before they can enter the "ELITE BOARD" with all the moderators and experienced guys. I'm not saying that I'm one of the "elite" I'm currently on my first cycle. I'm 43 and have learned alot from this board, I have researched, e-mailed moderators and just basically read this site everyday. And I honestly have to say that there is getting to be more and more boring posts and repetative questions each and everyday. There used to be good topics when even the moderators would go back and forth. But now the moderators hardly answer any questions or post topics. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 979 |
We may not forget : if there are less than 100 members on the new board, that board will die. All the experienced users know already all the answers. So not much posting. Or almost everyone will come over to the new board and you will have exactly the same as now. Those who cannot afford the money, will leave EF and go to Anabolex or another board. I think George knows the dangers of such a board too. But he, i am in. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Administrator     
Posts: 574 |
Never say I don't listen! https://www.elitefitness.com/reports/select.html ------------------ George George Spellwin Tell your friends about elitefitness.com! You could win 30lbs. of Mass Quantities Triple Threat 3/60 Protein! | ||
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Novice
Posts: 10 |
Thank God. The air was getting so thin here with all of the useless carbon dioxide being spewed into the air like so much industrial waste from a factory that doesn't produce anything. See ya, Twisted Schpeel, and if you don't have the 40 I'm sure a collection could be taken up to get rid of your stupid ass. And take your wannabe endocrinologists with you. With the depths to which you guys spit out info that could only be harmful (KISS) I give it about six months before you're all dead or incapacitated and crying that steroids are bad ala Lyle Alzado. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 3 |
Tell em herm try doin a search on a few of the self proclaimed mental elites in here and youll find most of thier posts are flames or of no use to anyone..... Ill be glad to get thier ridiculous post out of my way.....yes some do ask stupid ass questions but the threads downing them number just as many....and are just as useless....and to have made 1000 post in 2 months how could many be useful......how do they have time to train??????? | ||
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Novice
Posts: 10 |
90% of the mental giants on this board are either flaming someone or patting each other on the ass for flaming someone. They really never contribute a thing except to make people feel like shit. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 49 |
l will bump this for sure, this is the best post i have seen in awhile.... | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
this is by far the best site for info about anything related to AS on the web. trying to regulate it is, in my opinion, a mistake. you veterans obviously know most everything about the info talked about on this board. Most newbies that post repeat questions just want to be heard and to be a part of the discussion. that is the cool thing about the internet...it's interactive. paying isnt the answer. earning the right to post is the way to go. there has to be a way to have new visitors earn the right to get involved in the message board...hell, if it weren't for the new guys coming in, there wouldnt be much to talk about. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 385 |
Even if I could scrape up 40 bucks, there's no way I would spend it on some internet chat board, please... All the 'vets' already know enough about AS to construct their own cycles, so the 'Select' board is going to be little else than a chat-room. I don't get it, if a newbie posts a topic that you think is stupid or uneducated, then simply don't go to that thread, you don't have to pay all this money. If you see 'Can I drink Winny?', then don't click on that topic. You save yourself the newbie bullshit, and you get to keep the $40 in your pocket... |
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posted September 29, 2000 07:33 PM
