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 YOU WILL LOSE 50% of Gains From Testosterone! (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: YOU WILL LOSE 50% of Gains From Testosterone! | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 3979 |
You must realize this going into a cycle using testosterone (or you will be very depressed post-cycle). Most of the 50% loss will be water, but some LBM will also be lost. This average may be bumped up a little when Clomid/Proviron/Clen is used, but it will not be anything dramatic. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 222 |
I think your right. Coming from someone with experience. I did a sus 250only cycle and gained 21lbs, did clomid for 3 weeks after it. And now about a 1 1/2 month later I lost 11lbs. It also might be because I've been slacking with my diet, but I go to school and work everyday so its hard to maintain a reel good diet. I expected to lose about 5 or 6 lbs, not 11, but it was still worth it. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 396 |
I haver to agree with you 2thick, and its all relative, if you do a huge cycle, your gonna make huge gains and lose alot, if you do conservative cycle, you will lose a conservative amount. Which leads to the controvercy of whats best 8 week cycles or 2-4 week cycles. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 54 |
shit now im depressed just thinking about it thanks alot 2thick!!!!! i have to say this 15 lbs in 2 weeks i just gained has me happy as girls school gym teacher ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 94 |
I am not clear. When you say gains are you talking about size or strength, or size and strength. I have to disagree with you. After my last cycle which consisted of Sustanon 250, Deca and Dianbol I have lost weight. But, I have kept all of my size. My size is exactly the same as I was during the last week of my cycle. In fact my legs seem to have grown slightly. ~Goku~ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
I mean net weight gain. Of course this will vary from person to person but I am trying to get a basic message across. You may just have great genetics plus you used Deca (which you keep about 80% of your gains). ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 151 |
thats why i feel its best when using a highly androgenic to stack with a highly anabolic, plus a bro enlightened me awhile back and made me realize that when using sos it would be a good idea to start your clomid 2-3 weeks after your last injection, instead of the ussual 1 week after, since youll feel the sos working 2-3 weeks after youre last shot...any opinions? later jimbaker ------------------ LIVE AND LEARN BROS | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 606 |
What? No explanation? Quit teasing. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 121 |
I guess I'm very lucky then...I gained 17lbs on my last cycle (not a lot) and it's been 6 weeks since coming off. I have only lost 3 lbs as of now. I took clomid eod throughout and for 4 weeks post cycle. Plus I used DHEA, a little primo on weeks 3 and 4 of being off, and some Maca. ------------------ (formerly known as ajc1977) Visit my website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
The long lasting esters in Sust should be working themselves out 14 days after your last injection so the two week mark is when I begin. I think if you time your supplements (like creatine) it will help too {as AJC has stated}. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 283 |
Really? I thought it was closer to 60 or 70%. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 121 |
I took all that crap because I get supplements cheap and I wanted to see if it would prevent a crash...I didn't tell my buddies at the gym who did an identical cycle with only clomid post cycle because I didn't want them pissed at me if it didn't work...All of them have lost at least 7-8 lbs and one of them had to go to the doctor because he couldn't get it up...Needless to say, I'll be doing the same thing on my next cycle. ------------------ (formerly known as ajc1977) Visit my website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 58 |
This might still be too early to tell. But I did a dbol/deca/sus cycle with winstrol and clen at the end. I took clomid throughout the cycle and for 4 weeks after. It has now been 10 weeks since my last shot of sust and 7 weeks from my last shot of winstrol. I only gained 18 pounds while I was on that cycle, but after I came off I increased my calories by 1000 per day (to 4500). Since that last shot of sust I have gained 6 pounds and have slightly increased in strength. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 74 |
I am at week 6 since coming off my cycle, I gained 35 pounds and right now I have only lost about 10 pounds. I have kept 95% of my size, but my strength and stamina have gone down probably 20%. Over all I am keeping most of my gains. I use clomid/proviron/nolvadex eod and ed at end of cycle for 4 weeks. Yes, I stacked dbol, deca, test for 8 weeks. chesty ------------------ Ooooh Rahhh! | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 12 |
Why is it that so many people seem to live and die on the scale. Lose half your gains? If you consider losing excess water a loss, I think you are missing the point. Muscle size, and overall strength is the measuring stick you should be using, not only body weight. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 22 |
I know the lengths of time a steroid may be detected, but thats not the same as how long it keeps test elavated. Is there a different length for each kind of steroid or will test levels generally drop two or three weeks after last injection for most injectables? Ex- deca is detectable for 18 mos after last shot, but how long will it keep testosterone levels high? Let me know! | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2446 |
Buster has the right idea, here, you will drop weight of course, you will lose all the water you're carrying, but what the hell, what is with this 50% drop??? Where the hell are you getting this information, stop pulling this shit out of your ass, i seriously don't know what you have against testosterone, maybe you want a sex change or you have a portfolio full of Organon stock. Maybe you personally have lost 50% of your gains of test, but don't run around saying that everyone will see the same shitty results. I personally have experienced and observed people on test cycles retain at least 85-90% of their gains!! Stop running around shooting useless baseless information out of you mouth!! ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
I was expecting a colorful remark from you, E2...lol Once again, it varies from person to person but in general you will lose 50% of your net gains. Let the users be the judge. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 715 |
This is getting Fun! I personally feel that Test only cycles are best until you reach a point where you are taking 1000mg of test per week. Then it is time to switch it up and add some other drugs like dbol and deca or eq... I finished a Sust only cycle at 750mg per week for 6 weeks... I gained 20lbs total. 13lbs of LBM and 7lbs of Fat.. Today is 3 weeks after the last sust shot my exogenous test levels will be zero tomorrow... So no more test left... I lost 2lbs of LBM and gained about a pound of Fat... I will see how it goes...but i doubt i will lose another 4-5lbs of lbm | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 40 |
<fanning self> this newbies getting hot in here 50% does seem extreme. Slopain | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 22 |
From experience I really believe that with proper diet and training after a cycle (and clomid, etc.) - you can maintain 75-80% of your MUSCLE gains. If I lose 8-10lbs of bloat around my guy after a cycle...good enough for me. Everybody is different - you would be surprised just how many people use test with no clomid and/or no knowledge of proper training. DJ PS - I gained 73lbs on my last cycle of 50mg/wk Deca for 3 weeks and kept 62lbs of those gains! ha ha big newbie style........lol | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 50 |
You are absolutly right. I did sus250 for my very 1st cycle because at the time I was still lacking the right knowledge to even be fucking around with the stuff. I only gained 15lbs and lost it all within 3 months of the cycle. I got bad advice and didn't read the boards enough. I also thought that stacking was something only the junkies did. For any of the newbies that want to start their first cycle; research, research, research, then read all the posts having to do with your flavor of gear, then run your cycle past one of the moderators or post it for all to see. It's kinda hard to get a 100% taylored answer to your question, given the nature of this medium, but we are all here to help. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 996 |
For a moment I was speechless, although the author is not, this post title is Assinine. How you can construct a post title with this type of bold face propeganda and attach it to your name is beyond me. Dude, I wanna lay into this post like a ravenous dog, but Im going to bear hug my emotion and simply say: Ninty percent of newly realized testosterone based hypertrophy can be maintained off cycle, when intelligent timing, eating, training, and ancillaries are implemented. ------------------  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 283 |
I still have to say that if you cycle properly and take the proper reccuperating (spelling) drugs like clomid you can keep around 70% everytime. I usually agree with most of what you say, 2Thick, but I am agaisnt you on this one. 50% is too low. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 51 |
I am taking my last shot of test this thurs. of my test only cycle. I will keep you informed as to whether or not I lose 50% or not. The most I have ever lost from a cycle was 40% and that was a d-bol only cycle...no clomid. I guess I will be the judge. ------------------ "Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 404 |
twisted steel, bro when you gonna change that signature? you still at 215 pounds?!! just messin with ya buddy. peace, msg | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 12 |
This is too broad of a statement. Maybe if you have no clue what you're doing, you might loose that much. 2Thick, where'd you read this from ? I think if we all had to loose 50% of our gains, we'd have given up a long time ago. This is not to say that you newbies will fair as well. If you do not have a solid base to build on. Don't run out and get your test, sign up for a gym, train a few weeks, eat BigMacs daily, then quit and expect to retain anything. BPP | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 222 |
Maybe it just depends on the person, genetics, or how you train and diet after the cycle. Who knows, but everyone is saying something different so I don't think anyone can really answer this. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 283 |
I would think it would be a very wide range. I have heard everything (from people I know who use roids) from 50% to 90% so I would think 70% would be about average. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 885 |
I've been weighing this idea for some time now and I think this post has now helped me make a crossroad decision in my life. I'm not coming off anymore. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 715 |
I respect 2Thick very much.. He is a good bro and a good mod. 2Thick likes deca better than test and gets better results (gains and ability to keep gains) with Deca than TEST. I get better results with TEST. It's genetic... It depends. You can't generalize and say 50%, 70% or 90%... Unfortunately it doesnt work like that... | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 7 |
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But one thing is for sure, this topic has brought many opinions up very quickly. Like almost everyone has said, "Everyone is different and their bodies will react differently to different things." ps....why can't we all just get along?lol | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
I will generalize about this. I invite people to criticize my thoughts and to give their own opinion. Maybe I have not been crystal clear. On a test only cycle, you will lose 50% of your gains. Of course people will differ (and I sound like a broken record saying that). This is a general rule (such as taking off as much time as you were on). It does not apply or work for everyone. But, it does for most. If I am correct, most of the extreme criticism has come from men who have been using for a long time and are smarter than the average bear. You are the exception to the rule (if you didn't know already). ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1377 |
Twisted_Steel used the two key words here:ANCILLARY DRUGS.The proper use of these(including nolvadex,clomid,proviron & arimidex)throughout and post cycle in conjunction with testosterone will almost guarantee VERY minimal losses.Great thread fellas.And 2thick,just when I read the heading of your post,I burst out laughing just knowing E2 was going to go apeshit-I love it bros!LOL!!! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 283 |
Yep, I am surprised E2 hasn't been responding to this one more! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 335 |
While I agree that 50% is a little low it's got to be fairly close...most people on here claim to gain 20-30lbs with each and every test cycle they do...well hell 4-5 test cycles and I should have 80lbs I keep...that's based upon maintaining 80% of 20lbs over 5 cycles....now 2thick says 50%..that would yeild 50lbs over those same cycles a little more believable for me.... ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2446 |
Maverik idiotic statements like this don't deserve repeated responses. I can't believe how stupid you sound 2thick. Imagine i came out and said that no one will ever gain more than 5 lbs of a deca cycle! Same type of bullshit. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 121 |
I'm impressed, I got back from the gym, started reading this and I thought to myself..."Ohhhh shit. Here comes World War III." At least when E2 and 2thick disagree on something, they don't resort calling eachother jerk-offs or start in with the "YO MAMA" jokes. ------------------ (formerly known as ajc1977) Visit my website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
E2, do you even read my posts before you respond? And I have heard you say many times that you will not gain anything on Deca by itself (and I never called you stupid). But you will lose 50% of your gains on a test-only cycle. I know the truth hurts. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 312 |
Well, after this longdebate, i have come to the conclusion that it does depend on genetics. My first cycle was a dbol only with no clomid. I grew good and fast and tobe honst I kept 80-90% of my strength andsize. I did lose size due to water loss but I did not gain alot of water eiher. I did lose stamina though. So, my next upcoming cycle of testoviron depot, dbol and clomid has me very excited. I will be posting pics of before, during and after for the flameing critiques. Also, i have found with proper die, and proper training for the AS you take and proper training after, you can keep well more then 50%. I see to many bros' at my gym cycle test and dbol etc... ... .. for mass and strength gains, and when the cycle is over, go directly in the opposite direction feeling that they have to lower the weight, raise the reps, and start to cut because they figure they are goig to lose alot, so might as well just cut up. This is a misconception. I have found that if you keep to your mass and power program after the cycle for the duration you were on the cycle, you may not gain much more or as quickly as being on the cycle, but, you will not lose the strength you have gained. Test is for power and mass, not for ctting. You can do your next cycle to cut it up. If memory serves me correctly, some tests stay in you system longer. Say after your cycle the test is still there for a couple of weeks, why would one start to change their routine? Wouldn't one want to get the full benefit of the AS? I also believe, you can cut up anytime. Through in some ephedrine and hydroxy and some clen and rep your heart out. I believe in size first. besides, if I ever do start to shrink up, I'll just startto cut up. Then i can blame my lower weight and higher reps on that fact. Sorry so long bros'. Just got back from the gym and sitting here bored. Guess I'll go tap the ol' lady now. Peace! ------------------ "Pain is weakness leaving the body>>>" | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 121 |
Whoa bros...CHIIIIIIILLLL. Nobody said anything about your moms. LOL  ------------------ (formerly known as ajc1977) Visit my website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2446 |
No problem 2thick, you stick to your deca and i'll stick to my test. Why don't we meet up sometime this winter, we'll see whose drug has helped them more. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 121 |
Hey E2, did you ever get a reply from that email addy I gave you today? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
No problem. But we won't be able to make out who is bigger with all of the winter clothes we have on...lol.
------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com [This message has been edited by E2 (edited September 19, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 153 |
I don't want to butt in but I'm glad to see the mods are having this discussion.... I they all had the same opinions...were the hell would we get are info..........
------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2446 |
AJC thanks for the addy.
[This message has been edited by E2 (edited September 19, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 121 |
Did you get a reply yet? Just wondering if he's checked it. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2446 |
no not yet, but i'm using another one , not the one you gave me | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 121 |
That's cool...I know he's been busy. His dad was going down there to visit and I think he just got there yesterday, so it may be a couple of days. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 62 |
I have to agree with many. I did lose a signifigant amount of wait after my cyle of test prop, dbol,and eq but I have retained my size. I am very susceptable to gyno and water retention and when I came off in about A week I lost ten lbs. Overall I have lost 16 pounds but have already gained back three in the past week. The body remembers how big you were and it makes it easy to come back ( besides lack of motivation). | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 18 |
What are you using,Test Cypionate or Test Enanthate ? Me personally I kept most of my ganes with Cypionate, Enanthate worked great at first but when my cycle was over so was all my hard work. But everyone is different. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 218 |
I think you are right too, but still 30 pounds gained and keeping 15 pounds is not bad. I personally like cypionate, makes me bloated and strong as hell, just makes me feel like shit when I come off. If I look at primoteston I get gyno for some reason. Dbol after 3 weeks=gyno. I hate gyno | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 606 |
2Thick, Is this based purely on anecdotal evidence? Someone throw some science behind this if they can. Did Mac go back into hibernation? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 735 |
Well I must say this, I agree with E2, reason being, I kept around 80-85% of my gain off my first cycle, so it probably depends if the individual knows what he is doing and on the individual himself. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 183 |
Well I agree with both. It really depend of genetics at most. I did test enanthate cycle only, once. I gained about 25 lbs and lost about 8-9 lbs afterwards. But I expected that. I did all the clomid and shit, but some loss was unavoidable. Some other people I know did the same cycle and some of them gained more/less, lost more/less... Genetics... Anyway the truth is you will loose some, but in my case (thank Good) it wasn't 50%. And of course proper diet and supplementation plays a significant role also. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 205 |
I love this shit. As soon as I read the title I knew it was going to be an epic thread. I'm in week 2 of a test/deca cycle. Will provide updates for all to see. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 32 |
Bro's, I think somone my have guessed 2thicks password I mean 2thick you cant mean that can U....? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 90 |
One reason E2's drugs may work better than 2 thicks is because he Takes about 7times the amount! In almost any situation 3500mg of compound \week will give more gains than 500mg\ week. Please don't dont tell me that that a 3500mg to 500mg comparison is fair. E2 had even stated he would gain about 40lbs and end up with 20lbs of muscle well 20/40 is 50%. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 388 |
i've been taking nolvadex everyday and it's kept my water retention down. i'm still very vascular and pretty lean. does that mean that i will loose less weight since i'm not retaining as much water? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 371 |
I am not getting in theis big debate but I use nolvadex though out the cycle and I have to agree with maverick its got to be higher around 60 or 70% And with using nolvadex and and primo It seems mor like 80%. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 58 |
most of the bro's on this board are pretty knowlegable. i would even include alot of the newbies. (even with their stupid questions) just this post alone, a newbie would have learned many of the basics to keeping their gains. and that would make them more knowlegable than most others. the average person who runs a test only cycle would prbly experence a big post cycle crash. but people from this board can't really be included in that statment. (most of us have been training for years and know out shit) so it's hard to say. i see a lot of dumb asses at my gym and i can tell they have found the holy grail and they get huge during the summer. but come mid feb or march, they look more or less the way they did when they started. their size, strength, and i would guess weight drops off considerably. but i can't really back a statement like this up with any sources other than personal observations. all i know is that i get big on test and i work my ass off to keep it. sometimes i think i work out much harder post cycle. like i always say. posts like this are great. you have many knowlegeable people voicing their opinions. and we can make our on decisions as to what's best for us. if you know you have shitty diet, training habits, or genetics, than maybe a test only cycle isn't for you. great post! | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2579 |
Jesus H. Christ, I'm gone for a few days and 2Thick has stirred up another no Brainer!!! Test vs. Deca= Simple 1. Test, you get huge Stay tuned next week Boys and girls as 2Thick discusses the " Boogey Man "!! Hide behind your deca bottle little man...heh heh heh.....Game on!! ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 695 |
I think more explanation or reasoning is required in this post. Much uncertainty here. If total gains are concerned, then I MAY be able to agree, to a point. Most, when bulking, eat tons, retain water, and gain a good deal of weight. After the cycle, eating patterns are restored, the retained water is shed, and the true lean body muscle gained is revealed. From this stance, then a 50% loss in the "total" gain is possible. Hell, I wouldn't mind that much of a loss if it's only water and fat. On the other hand, some will retain their eating habits (an interesting proposition to try while keeping protein levels high), take the appropriate supplements during a cycle to minimize the water retention, and work hard. Then, the loss at the end of the cycle could very well be minimal. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 88 |
Alright the battle has been joined by the Ranger. I love when you Mods have your heated discussions. We all learn more from them. Has Macro, thrown in his 2 cents yet? Point-Counterpoint. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 885 |
Ranger, don't be sugar-coatin' this on us now.. Tell us what you really think. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2579 |
I will....Deca is one of, if not, the most over priced, most counterfeited roids around!!! There are those(and we know who they are) like so many people afraid of the truth, try and blast that which scares them. cc per cc I would place my money in EQ...more bang for the buck!! Of course this is just my opinion....and at this console, it's fucking law!!! Heh heh heh!!!! ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 885 |
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
Ranger, Maybe the fumes from the cow paddies in your front yard make you believe that Test can even compare to Deca but you have another thing coming. I will not take any Deca-bashing from anyone who doesn't even have all of his teeth. Deca, by far, will yield more quality gains and you will keep more of it. Test is a poor-man's Deca. That is why you use it, my friend. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1571 |
Hell, I think the biggest problem is that people mistake the first 5-10lbs that they gain off of test for lean muscle, now granted some may be, but for the most part it will be water. Too many people judge gains by the scale, live by the scale, die by the scale. Mistaken water retention for lean mass is common and often overlooked. Why do you think some people freak out when they drop 5lbs in the first few days of dieting coming off test?, its all water, so nothing to worry about. Its all in how you use it, and how you come off of it. I gained 20lbs last cycle, and kept almost 15lbs of it, and Im done dieting now, and it was just basic sust/dbol, nothing special. Remember, water gained/water sheds, its not a loss in gains, if your stronger, leaner, and have made progress in overall physique appearance, then what have you lost? Test will always be the cornerstone of all my cycles, and I recommend it to everyone who asks me opinions on a first cycle. TEST IS KING. WCP ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2579 |
2Thick, I honestly believe you start these half-brained debates for one simple reason!! You have grown tired of Deca, after watching all your friends pass you by on Test...and you come here for E2 and I to push you over the edge to finally try it....What's holding you back? Scared of the truth, and that you have been wrong all along!! Do this simple excercise....place your right hand in your right pocket....Got it all the way in? ... Good! .. Now, give a big squeeze!!! Feel that set of nuts....Deca sure as fuck didn't put them there....Sound off like ya got a pair..... " TEST "!!!! ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2446 |
Ranger i don't know if he has a handfull down there, after all that deca use i'm sure things aren't working properly. He may get a little confused when he goes searching for those nuts and comes up empty handed. ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3979 |
That was a zinger, E2. Lets campare sacks when you are on your 2000mg of test per week cycle. ..lol....I think we know who will win, ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 12 |
Although this thing has seemed to be a moderators debate, I will add my bit. I totally agree with WCP, mainly because he ripped off my post (about 30 posts up) and elaborated on it. Kidding. One thing that no one has asked 2Thick to elaborate on is his ambiguous use of the term "gains". You are either talking about weight or strength/ lean body mass. If you are talking about strength/lbm almost everyone disagrees with you. Usually it is only the test freaks who consider weight gain of any kind desirable. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 51 |
Why are you attacking yourselves bros?? I think thaty the idea of this board is to exchange knowledge, I you don�t agree with it, good for you! Everybody can have their own oppinions. I can�t give my opinion because I haven�t use roids yet. Later | ||
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Novice
Posts: 8 |
you guys are funny as hell, in my oppinion, i like both of teh drugs, and im combining them in my current cycle. I started the deca 3 weeks after i started teh test and i will continue it 4 weeks after i quit the test to keep the gains. But, i would NEVER ever EVER do a cycle without any test, like E2 and Ranger said, test is what put those boys down there, its what makes us men, its what makes us dominant, IM SOUNDING OFF-TEST IS DA BEST |
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posted September 18, 2000 07:50 PM
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