GEORGE SPELLWIN'S ANNOUNCEMENTS
Enlightening Men about Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding for over Two Decades
| Author | Topic: Educated Input Please! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 545 |
Hey guys. This is my September cycle. I'm 23 and have been training for about 8 years. I am 5'11" and weigh in at 184 (down from 198 due to knee surgery I concurred playing baseball) at about 8% BF. This is my third cycle (My first taking place last August)and I have very detailed goals I am trying to achieve. I'm not one who wants to weigh 240 as this would never go well with my work nor is this really the look that I've been working for. My ideal is about 210 at 5% BF. I can carry this on my frame for sure. This is I'm hoping the last serious bulking cycle I will do. If I reach my goals then I will be able to concentrate my efforts on serious cutting cycles to refine and maintain my desired physique. Now to explain my cycle: I am estrogen sensitive (but react well to anti-estrogen therapy and consequently can still use aromitizing androgens if the anti-estrogens are present) Because of this I will take Nolvadex at 10mg from the beginning, Clomid 50mg ED throughout, and proviron as shown below to battle the estrogen (and hopefully not have to up the nolvadex later.) I'm hoping the proviron will keep the estrogen under control while on the d-bol and allow a higher quality of muscle gain without all the water. Week---SUS---Dbol---EQ-----Winny---Proviron I will take Evening Primrose Oil, Milk Thistle, Anti-Oxidants, Multi-vitamin, and 2mg of Finasteride a day to keep the DHT under control. My diet will include at least 5000 calories per day. (300g of Protein a ton of complex carbs, and moderate fats) I will also drink 2 gallons of water a day. I've put alot of precautions in this cycle in the form of ancilliary drugs and I hope this will help make this a success and more tolerable. I want educated input here as this is obviously a very serious cycle and something I also take very seriously. (very similar to SSman's a few months back)
[This message has been edited by gamer (edited September 07, 2000).]     | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 337 |
Well.....Have fun! ------------------ | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1883 |
Gamer and I are on the exact same cycle/program down to the t - only difference is I will be on DECA instead of the EQ and may start the winny a little earlier (to help combat progesterone related effects). He is very progesterone sensative hence the EQ. The only thing I am waivering on is the Dbol, should we cut it a week earlier? Any advice appreciated. Slopain | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 75 |
I don't think you would need to Slopain. Methandeione is very short acting and would clear from your system within 3 days of stopping(or less). If you're worried about liver stress or other potential estrogenic sides, then it is your decision based on your past experiences. By the time you drop it, the Sus and EQ will have already kicked in.(even if you do drop it a week early) Only thing I would do differently is add in some Primo Depot from week 10-14 in place of the Winny at 20 mgs. A taper could be used but also isn't necessary. 300 mgs per week from 10 to 14 should be excellent for maintenance. Good luck and just my thoughts. TD | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1883 |
Good point Tony, Primo @ 300 for weeks 10-14? hmmm Any one else? Slopain | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 486 |
Maybe think about sliding the Eq down to start around week 6 when you start the winny. And go a little longer with the winny. When you stop taking the sust, the Eq and winny will be just kicking in. Just a suggestion. D. | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 2888 |
You will not see anything from the winny with all of that test in you. Drop the winny or save it for a later point in the cycle. ------------------ UP-TO-DATE information on STEROIDS and PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS: | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 915 |
Ok, your goal is plausible considering the amount of androgens you are working with. Let me focus on your ardministration of clomid and Proviron. Your falling under a catagory which some would classify as an androgen rich cycle. Your also slated to be on 10 weeks. Given that I want you to consider two options. First, to delay the use of clomid, your aware that sustanon is going to be viable within your system up to a month after your last injection. Therefore, timing becomes an issue with clomid. Beggining the use of Clomid after your last injection would be superfluous, your test levels will still be elevated above normal. I would say you can wait 2-3 weeks without any concern before you begin the use of clomid. I would also reccomend that you invest in HCG. HCH, used in conjunction with clomid will only expedite your recovery, efficiently brining your endogenous hormone levels to normal. Ya Gamer, I was right in my assumption with Proviron, is great ancilary because it has a high binding affinity towards plasma binding proteins like SHBG, thus allowing for more free flowing unbound testosterone. So Go ahead with the proviron. Inexpensive and abundant. Its not the best choice to prevent aromatization, an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex is the weapon of choice for this. I would run it almost as you would, only I would keep it 50mg ED througout.
[This message has been edited by Twisted_Steel (edited September 08, 2000).]  | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 545 |
Twisted some great advice bro. 300 Kleen the winny is not really their to particularly cause a lot of growth but rather to help solidify the watery muscle that the dbol brings. The combo of EQ and Winny always makes me very hard and with the anti-estrogens present to the extent that they are I don't think the sus will keep the EQ and Winny from imparting it's hardening effect. I could be wrong because I've only done this with 500mg of sus in the past. (and was very successful at that level.) Let me know more if you have personal experience here. I have heard of positive reports of winny (at levels of like 350mg week) and sus working well together as I think that winny is alot stronger than most think it is. A lot of the investments in this cycle are to attempt to gain a higher quality of muscle than is usually seen with an aromitizing androgen rich cycle. Twisted the HCG is a no brainer to me as I have basically anything available to me that I wish to access. I can't really afford the Arimidex because of the obvious significant investment that has already been put into this cycle. (along with the fact that I just bought a new car and moved into a new apartment at the same time.) What do you think the minimum dose would be in this cycle here to have a positive effect as the thought of gyno scares me because of past occurences.(past deca progestinic problems left me with a sour taste and surgery)I've used androgens in the past and estrogen seems to be well controlled in my system with anti-estrogen therapy. By the way I will push the clomid back another week but I am also takeing it all the way through (50mg ED)which is why I didn't think that the HCG would be necessary.(I thought that my natural test levels wouldn't be depleted to the levels which call for HCG) If you feel it is still needed then please let me know as I see that you already left me your dosage idea and I want everything necessary to make this a success. (thanks!!!) More opinions!!!!this is what the board is for...intelligent discussion about anabolics and their effects. There are some others I would definitely like to hear from here as well. [This message has been edited by gamer (edited September 08, 2000).] [This message has been edited by gamer (edited September 08, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 545 |
bumping it up. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 582 |
looks good nice cycle... ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 915 |
50mg of clomid througout, hmm I think we could liken that to swinging at a john rocker fastball with uncooked strand of pasta. Your really going to need approximatly 200mg of clompahine ED, to keep the testies from shutting down. 50-100mg of clomid can handle test ranges from 250mg-500. That being said were going to increase the clomid proportionatly. HCG, really boils down to your past experiences with testosterone. The mimicing effect of LU that HCG provides will really get your hormones in balance quickly. Take a look at your finacial situation, see if you could run a buy for 10-20 1mg Arimidex tablets. I have seen this done many times this year with athletes preparing for show, running your approximate doses. We want to prevent an overly catabolic environment from taking place once you cease the testosterone. Arimdex would keep estrogen at bay, while Clomid/Hcg bring about your endogenous test back to normal. ------------------ |
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posted September 07, 2000 11:03 PM