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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Why is Sustenon by it self or Deca by itself a waste?
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| Author | Topic: Why is Sustenon by it self or Deca by itself a waste? | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 3885 |
I know it is not a waste, but why do some of our great members believe you need to stack to get decent gains. Also on a tangent, I believe great gains for any cycle would be 15-20 solid pounds. I would love to hear some feedback. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com     | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 594 |
I agree, its far from a waste. Mabye after stacking, the gains wouldnt be the same pound for pound, but the gains would be solid and worthwhile none the less. Ive never been real big on stacking, and dont even use orals sometimes, so if youre looking for an argument, youve come to the wrong place!  ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 570 |
I don't think it's a waste. But I do believe you could see more gains if stacking with a complementary AS (say something that has a greater affinity for SHBG). In theory you should see more, but in reality I don't know if it is that significant. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 137 |
hey 2thick i have to start my second cycle.First i was thinking to go 8 weeks at 500mg/week of sus, but i've heard people saing it 'd be a waste and i wuoldn't keep my gains. I decided to add primo at 300. Do you think if i go without the primo i would not keep as much as if i stack? Should i go just with sus? (my first cycle was primo at 300 and i got lovely results even if i was dieting. i lost 11 pounds of fat while gainig 7 pounds on the scale and i looked wonderfull.) | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 358 |
Nonthing is a waste. As long as you put 110%into your workout, and diet, You'll gain soild muscle. That works for me.lol...  | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3896 |
I don't think it's a waste to do a cycle of just sust, but a cycle of just deca to me is not the smartest thing in the world. Either you're going to do doses that won't yield good results or you're going to take high doses and rish progesterone induces sides. I woulnd't do an only deca cycle ever for growth, at a theraputic dose for recovery from say sugury makes sense, ie 200-300mg a week. And yeah, 15 -20 solid lbs is an incredible gain. If you can put on 15 lbs of solid muscle each cycle just think how huge we'd all be after 4 cycles. Unfortunatly you can't do that, at least i don't know anyone who's been able to do that consistently each cycle. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 918 |
The term "wasted cycle" really is a misnomer with respect to these drugs. The educated athlete really can't go wrong as long as he is properly prioritized. Training and diet should always take precedent over drug use. That being said, the athlete has a myriad of potential compounds at his disposal. The drugs are an expediant means to an end. Use them wisely, use them forever, use them in moderation. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 143 |
Well said TwistedSteel......... | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 7 |
I agree with most everything said to this point... In my own experience, Deca by itself may be effective in high doses (600+mg/wk) - but I simply cannot handle the progesterone sides. I was all out of whack while on 600mg Deca only, it was a STUPID beginner's mistake and I had to bail out early. I now know - after sitting back and learing the ropes for a long time before trying again - that for me I will ALWAYS use Test as the basis for my cycles. DJ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 373 |
I've very much enjoyed the constructive and fair debate that usually takes place with 2thick and E2 or Macro or The Ranger regarding dosaging and the possible risk/benefit ratios. I've learned the most on this board by reading posts exactly like this one. And as The Ranger says.......it's all GOOD! delts ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1252 |
In an article by Dan Duchaine, he said that his ideal beginner cycle would consist of 600mg of test only. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 128 |
I think everybody is different and you never really know what your own body is capable of until you try it. I think E2's cycles are probably best for those who want to go all out and ride the edge, 2Thick's cycles are more for those who are a little unsure and want to error on the side of caution. I don't know the physiological effects of the stacks, but I think a lot of it is mental. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 143 |
I would never do deca by itself, did it once and regreted it. 500mg per week=no dick. Sustanon by itself is ideal as long as you take at least 750-1000mg per week. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 367 |
im not real big on stackin all kinds of shit at once.i gained alot of permanante tissue from only 150mg of deca a week fo almost 3.5months.the gains were not hella noticable but i gained slowly andconsistently over that time,and ive kept all 10 pounds. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 57 |
Again I believe a lot of this depends on Genetics, everyone is different. e.g. if you are a person who has already got high natural levels of Testosterone then you may find that Test especially in small doses does very little for you. On the other hand if you have low natural levels of Test then testosterone could be one of the best steroids for you and you will probably make great gains on even very small amounts. It only makes sence. I've lost count of the number of arguments there have been on this board about, what is the right amount of testosterone to take per week? It has ranged from 250mg per week to 2000 or more mg per week, and each person argues that their dose is the correct one and that everyone who disagrees with them is talking bullshit. Some pro's have told me that they gain far better on the high anabolic steroids compared to the high androgenics like testosterone. When I have questioned them about it, they have swore to me that it is true. Would you guy's believe them? | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1323 |
For me, the reason I stack is to gain some benefits during a specific time frame during a cycle. For a mass cycle I like the dbol/A50s for quickness out of the gate. (I hate being on and it taking three/four weeks to "feel" something) Sust/test because I'm in the ALWAYS USE test camp. Bit of deca because I love the way it helps my joints. Primo at the end to help with a smooth landing. Can you gain with just test, deca, or primo only? Well, that's not even debatable. Sure you can, many have.... But there is more to a cycle than the question of, "Will 500mg of test only work better? Or will 300mg of deca and 200mg of primo work better?" I just see stacking as a better option to maximize the benefits of each roid and make a better overall cycle. In the end, for 90% of us, the real emphasis should be on diet and training. Gear is really the LAST thing one needs to worry about. Taking gear is the easy part, it�s everything else that�s hard.... ------------------ Lobo | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 367 |
lobo..i agree with you usin gear is the easy part....diet,training,and rest are the hard parts especially for those of us who work full time.its a bitch. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 565 |
This is a great topic and there are many diffrent opions. I belive in the theroy that for maxium gains you need to stack an anabolic with an androgen, Maybe its just how my body reacts but I have done cycles of d-bol by itself and didn't gain anything, I have done a cycle of primotestin and got stronger but didn't go up in weight. When I stacked deca with test I went from 194 to 212 in 6 weeks. I do agree that anything between 15 and 20 pounds are great gains. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 213 |
I have to disagree with some of you about this. I did a sus only cycle at 25o a week for 8 weeks and gained 21lbs. And I know of a couple of people who did deca only for 10 weeks and never went over 400mg a week and gained 15lbs, plus they kept all of it. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 668 |
I dont think its a waste either. I gained 20lbs off 8 Sus redijects for 8 weeks in my first cycle. I do use Tes when on Deca though to make sure I keep my wife happy! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 808 |
I find it hard to believe to do an only Deca cycle and keeping it all. For me some water was involved and you have to loose that. I am not saying they didn't gain 15 pounds, but not all is muscle. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 370 |
Maybe because 2Thick mentioned just sustenon and deca durabolin in his thread title, most of the posts have only mentioned these, or just these and dianabol. Then Warlobo came along and upped the ante a bit, talking about "stacking as a better option to maximize the benefits of each roid and make a better overall cycle," and bringing in a more sophisticate pharmacopeia. I wish the vets and mods would take off from Warlobo's pitch, and talk about some of the other kinds of gear, like eq, anavar, winny, primo, and how they see these compounds fitting into their cycles. Sust and deca may be the main players, but what about these other compounds, how do they figure into a Warlobo kind of cycle? Be well, and lift heavy, brothers. Bjaarki | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 15 |
IT IS NOT A WASTE AT ALL.AS LONG AS YOU EAT GOOD, TRAIN SMART AND SLEEP WELL,YOU WILL MAKE FANTASTIC GAINS! | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1765 |
Alas..... The Great Debate never subsides....A waste....Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....I guess this term is my fault, and one best unused in the future, afterall...It's all Good...eh!! From now on, I'll use....well...Chemically Lacking!! It does seem we use Sus, and Deca as a basis for all these arguments...they are some of the most popular, according to Kleen's survey. And I agree there are great choices out there....but for these debates alone, they serve their purpose well. Now, not withstanding that diet, training and sleep are the most important factors in our lives...whether we are on or off cycle. I mention this because we seem to mention diet exclusively when we ramble on about our cycles(I'm guilty as well). Here is my proposal..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's look at my little experiment now....OK!!!!!! To see this, you must go to my new post simply entitled ... " Ranger's experiment! " Sorry to fuck with ya....but it should add a little curve ball to the debate!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 253 |
Bump... ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 120 |
First cycle: 500mg of sust for 10 weeks Results: Gained 27lbs......KEPT 24lbs!!!! I agree with 2thick. Keepin it simple will also bring quality results. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 152 |
i took sus by itself and kept all but 4 lbs. of it. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 9 |
Primoteston 250 and some d-bol or A-50. Do those together at 3amps of PT and 2tabs of A-50 the results should be proper unless you don't eat good and train like sh@#... Gooooo Heavy!!!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1011 |
Everyone is diff. , but you have a point. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 93 |
I have to agree that a Deca only cycle is no good. Before i attained alot of knowledge on AS, i took deca at 500mg a week. At week 5 i had gained pretty close to shit, so i stopped there. I went to my source and bought some d-bol and sust. I now am doing 750mg a week. I am about to start week 6. So far i went from 190lbs to 213lbs, i have stayed at 5"10 and 10%bf. I am not too bloated. And i still have a month left. I can;t wait to see the end results. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 102 |
It is far from a waste.... For the first 2-3 years I juiced it was single substance usage. Only within the last 2 years have I started stacking. Start small and work your way up. Whoever wrote or gave you the impression that it was a waste is a dumb ass. JJ | ||
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Novice
Posts: 9 |
I am using cyp. now, not stacked with anything and Im noticing great gains. |
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posted September 07, 2000 08:41 PM
JIM LAYHOE