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 2Thicks Light cycles
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| Author | Topic: 2Thicks Light cycles | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 135 |
I noticed some people are amazed at the light cycles 2thick suggests sometimes. But I do have to agree with him. In the past, I started off very light and had my lean body mass (LBM) measured in the water tank at college. the joy and advantage of keeping a detailed training log were proven to me back then. I would chart my body weight, fat percentage, and lean body mass once a week, I noticed the little chart I was keeping had a steady LBM climb over the weeks I was juicing. Like most, I tried to accelarate that LBM climb rate at times by increasing the doseage of the A.S. I was using. The only thing that happened was my overall body weight went up due to the water bloat I carried and my blood pressure went crazy. After the cycle, I would crash and lose the excess water. but using more gear did not increase my LBM any faster than using less, it only increased the side effects. In the past, my most effective cycles were light by most standards. I made my best gains by taking 1cc Test Suspension and 1cc Winny V three times a week. I am into my third week of a cycle now and I have gained 7 pounds and my body fat percentage has gone down 4%. My cycle is : First 2 weeks, 100mg Test Cyp, 100mg Deca, per week and 7.5mg Oxandrin combined with 2i.u. of Serostim each night. This week I increased the doseage where it will remain for three weeks to 200mg Test Cyp, 200mg Deca, per week and still 7.5mg of Oxandrin. I am going to up my Serostim to 4i.u. per night or every other night depending on the feedback I get from a couple of mods and vets. Out of this combination the only thing I have done before is Test cyp and prop. Deca, Oxandrin, Primobolan, and Serostim are all new to me. This is a heavy cycle by my standards, usu Would anyone like to share their input or advice?     | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 1750 |
Yup, Glad it's going good for you Bro!!! Consider yourself a minority though....for most, these " Light " cycles will leave you lacking, and disappointed. On the other hand...those on the Captain-Insane-O cycles will pass you by 99% of the time. Give yourself great credit for your genetics and diet....just by keeping a log tells me your a very planned out individual....most with less wouldn't see a tenth of your gains. Hit it hard....do it high, before your recepters know what hit them!!!! Just my thoughts Bro.....heh heh heh...this outa be good!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 525 |
Your first cycle has the ability to be your best cycle. Why waste it on sissy cycle. I only did 400 mgs. of deca for 6 weeks on my first cycle and gained 13lbs and kept 11. Looking back I definately wish I would have tossed a couple bottles of test and some d-bol in their with it. Once that first one is gone you can't get it back. Make it worth it. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 657 |
Curious: Why would your first cycle have the ability to be the best cycle??? Receptors down-grading theory as never been accepted... What is the logic behind this.. Let me know! [This message has been edited by DREXX (edited September 07, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 657 |
told by Bill Roberts: The statement that the first cycle has the most effect is true, in my Let us look at the example of a person who achieved excellent If he resumes training and uses steroids, will his gains be less than in The greater the gains one has already made, the harder further gains Thus the "first cycle" argument proves nothing with regards to AR | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 525 |
Well Drexx, Your first cycle your receptors are complety clean...because you have never used steroids before. Once you use steroids you are bigger (or should be) hence your window of adaptation gets smaller. The smaller that gets the harder it is to grow. (in case you don't know what a window of adaptation is, pick up a textbook that has something to do with exercise science. In a nutshell your window of adaptation is your genetic limit. The bigger you get, the smaller it gets, the harder it is for you to get bigger) Your receptors will clear over time and give you the ability to grow well again but in order to completely clear out it takes a very long time. (I mean complety clear out, not most of the way) If all this means jack shit to you then ask anyone who is experienced with steroids and they will tell you the exact same thing. I am holding a book right now...it is a guide to prescription and over the counter drugs. It has oxandrolone in it(Anavar). It says that it will not increase muscle mass and that the athletes that use it are misinformed. I also watched a special on testosterone once that said if you expect to see greater muscle gains from taking testosterone that you are going to be disappointed because it won't happen. This was and supposedly is your scientific proof and it is coming from doctors...and everyone knows that it is complete and total bullshit. So why on earth would a scientific document that states receptors never downgrade or are exactly as "fresh" after many years of steroid use hold any water what-so-ever? The proof is in the pudding, not on the paper. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 525 |
There are many things in this world that are unexplained. Science says it should work, common sense says it should work, the law of nature says it should work. But for some reason it just doesn't work. This is one of those situations. No matter what Bill says, I don't know of anyone who has gotten greater gains off a latter cycle unless their first cycle was weak or their gear was bad. All things being equal, the first cycle yields the best results. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 657 |
Curious: Not starting a flame war! Just wanted to see if you know what you are saying.. Lots of people post shit and cant back it up... You can back up your shit and that is cool... Basically what I mean is that the first cycle is better since you start at a lower lean body mass... ex. Genetic potential = 220lbs of lbm you can theoretically gain 60lbs... Obviously the closer you get to the limit (220lbs) the harder it is to gain... The fact that you are puny when you do the first cycle that is why you gain the most it has nothing to do with receptors... Try this... stop training and lose 20-30lbs then do a cycle it will be as good or better than your first cycle... Peace! [This message has been edited by DREXX (edited September 07, 2000).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 525 |
You could be right, but I ain't about to quit training and lose 20-30 pounds just to find out. You would definately hear about that in the paper cause I would go into a crying depression fit before tossing myself out of a window. I don't know if the receptor controversy is true or not. All I do know is that that D-Bol only cycle I did still pisses me off to this day. (sorry, off topic) No flame bro, it's all good. Peace! ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1102 |
Hey,nice little debate there,fellas.Valid points on both sides of the coin. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 177 |
jaedid some one perscribe you the cyp and decca | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1288 |
You lost 4% BF and gained 7 lbs in only three weeks?? Now that is what I call genetically gifted for sure. It takes me twice or three times as long to lose 4% BF, not including adding muscle at the same time. Consider yourself one lucky individual, bro. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 135 |
Well my very first cycle was when I was 19, had been training all for four years, training all out for two years with the GA State, Eastern Seaboard, Mid Atlantic champ, and my cycle consisted of going to the local witch doctor where he prescribed me 3 winstrol tabs per day. (6mg daily) for five days a week. In 8 weeks, I went up 19 pounds which coming off I kept 17. I stayed clean three months did a cycle of Cypionate for 12 weeks, first two weeks 200mg weekly, next eight weeks 400mg weekly, last two weeks, 200mg weekly and picked up around 22 pounds then. I lost about 8 pounds when I came off. I have never tried to bulk in mass loads, rather just climb steadly for cycle by cycle. The above noted cycle is my first cycle in four years. Although, I have been still training hard those four years, only it was natural, but I still made improvements. My last cycle was 400mg of test weekly, 40mg of Halotestin per day, 3cc of winny weekly and while I lost strength when I came off and stopped juicing, those four years of training natural, my strength came back and increased beyond the point it was at when I was juicing. Then I was pressing 205 behind the neck for 5-6 reps, before I started my current cycle, I was doing 225 for 4-5 reps. Now I am up to about 8 reps. Just my .02 | ||
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Guru
Posts: 2881 |
I don't believe in Captain Insane O cycles, but I don't believe in extra/extra light cycles either. I train with mostly Olympic caliber athletes and we use the rule of thumb that a first timer should not stack. And we stick to the same cycle until it doesn't produce acceptable gains anymore. Then, we move on to other AS's or maybe increase the dosage.
If you do 1g of test for your first cycle you will make good gains, BUT!!! Where do you go from there? You can only go higher. If you don't then you will not find the gains that you are looking for.
Just something you may want to think about. ------------------ UP-TO-DATE information on STEROIDS and PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS: | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1750 |
Kleen, I agree that a first timer should'nt hit the gram mark, however, I feel it is a waste of time to do 250mg's of Sus 250 for eight weeks as well. The sides of Test are known, and easily avoidable with just a little common sense, as for the " You have to increase the dosage each cycle theory" I don't believe this either. Case in point...If the pro's are heavy juicers, as we all know....and most have been in the game for 15+/- years....According to your point, they will now be taking dosages in the 5 to 10 grams per week mark. Your body builds up a tolerance to drugs, and sure, the longer you stay on, the more you will need to achieve the same effect. However, if you stop taking the drugs for a length of time, the memory is still there, but you can start again. If you do a gram of test a week for eight weeks....then lay off juice for 6 months...on your next cycle, the same dosage(a gram per week for eight weeks)...no gains?? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......Interesting, and a great thinkers thread...time for Twisted_Steele,cockdezl,and Macro to throw kinks in all of it though....heh heh heh!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 317 |
300 Kleen, would you recommend one of the beginner cycles on your web site to a 6'1" 230lb. novice? I want results, and I'm not so sure that would do it. Later ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 657 |
Ranger: I agree that you can make gains on the same dose... after taking a lay off... I think a beginer should start off with 500mg of test/week. And then go from there. If the gains are satisfactory then keep the dosage the same... if not increase it a little and do another cycle... When you reach and amount of gear (mg per week) that provides the results you want stick with that... I just did a cycle of sust only at 750mg and only gained 20lbs in the 6 weeks. Next cycle I want to gain more weight so it is time to take more gear... I will do 1000mg of test and dbol for the first 4 weeks... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 95 |
quote: I know it's an old & redundant topic for the Vets & Mods but I would be interested to hear some "current" input from Macro on this thread as well. Later, | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 6 |
Each person's body responds different to gear. A perfect example is my training partner and I both did 200mgs of Laurabolin every two weeks. I gained 22 pounds and he didn't gain an ounce. My diet was a little better than his, but that wouldn't explain 22 pounds worth of difference. So I believe it has alot to do with individual body chemistry. Light doses work for me, not him. Everyone is different. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1750 |
Drexx, I agree completely Bro!! I think a deca only cycle is not only a waste of time, but it will leave you wanting more at the end. Khule thread!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 247 |
As hard as this is to do, chart a year for BF%, weight, strength etc....i bet light cycles are equal for % kept over time. BUT i am just giving my opinion and 400 mg of deca a week adds a lot to me...i am lucky i guess... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 247 |
As hard as this is to do, chart a year for BF%, weight, strength etc....i bet light cycles are equal for % kept over time. BUT i am just giving my opinion and 400 mg of deca a week adds a lot to me...i am lucky i guess... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1233 |
I had 2thick's help with my last cycle and I wasn't dissapointed. I had more gear than he said I needed, but I listened to him...I ended up at 350mg Test(250mgSos + 100mgSten) and a pyramid of 200-300mg deca per week with clomid eod. In 8 weeks, I gained 17lbs off of it. (The protein was 200-250 grams per day, but I could have taken in more carbs) I have kept 15lbs since coming off almost 4 weeks ago. Just my .02 ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 2881 |
Ranger, Like I said (the way we do it), you keep using the same dosage until it doesn't work anymore. I was just trying to make the point that if you start with 1g of test you really cannot expect to be able to do 250mg and get results. Why spend the extra money, health, and time when you don't need to. Cntgetlayed, As for the Deca only cycle, 3-4 brothers from the Stacks and Weights board used it for their first cycle (same as the one on my site) and gained about 30lbs. Now, your telling me that isn't good? And, it is safer, cheaper, and less time consuming than stacking this with that and doing huge doses of this and that.
Gear is not magical. It's a tool. ------------------ UP-TO-DATE information on STEROIDS and PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS: | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1233 |
300kleen you hit the nail on the head...The way I see it, diet and excercise are what cause growth, add juice and you get lots of growth. If the diet and excercise aren't there...You get nothing. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 387 |
(Posted in both) To add my short expereince. I am on almost the exact cycle 2THick posted Thanks 2THicK). The gains show more in the mirror than the scale. Water retention was/is very low..if at all...I have been taking Clomid through out the cycle even though it is not really necessary. From a newbie perspective I must admit I may have expected something different. But not to say I am dissapointed. I believe most non-competing BBs or the average lifting joe is looking of the gains E2 describes... On a side note, My strength has gone up but I did not give my tendons equal time...lifting heavy weight just because you can is not always a good idea (I know the vets know this...for other newbies)I am 34. It really does come down to consistent diet and training.. I will probably try Test on my next at a low dosage with dbol..... I do not disagree with anyone...I get a balance of information from both sides of the fence.. ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1750 |
Kleen...Very True bro......And I agree whole heartedly....diet and training is the key...even off cycle!!! Hell lets keep this one going....Shit, I like to argue to much to let it die!!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1867 |
Good Thread: Heres my Question maybe the brother that posted it will speak up: I recently read that a bro had done a bunch of "light" cycles with good success than went on an "insano" cycle and got the same amount of gains (maybe a little more), then he bumped it back down to the "light" cycle dosages and still maintains he gets the good gains. I had thought that if you do a big dog cycle, unless you do DNP or take a year off you wont grow off a 'light' cycle. I hope the bro reads this and posts here again, I forget which thread I already asked him this on - no offense bro by leaving out your name. Are my thought correct on the above? Slopain | ||
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Guru
Posts: 2881 |
Slopain, I was under the same impression. But I can't speak from personal experience. ------------------ UP-TO-DATE information on STEROIDS and PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS: | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 784 |
bump ------------------ |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted September 07, 2000 11:33 AM