People mean that you do not see most of your growth around that time because the level of the steroid has been built up enough to see a noticeable anabolic effect.

Do not take the phrase literally. It is figurative.

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Check out my Injection and Syringe Info Page:

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That is the title of the post. I am the last reply.

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Check out my Injection and Syringe Info Page:

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I will leave the obvious fact that you cannot compare the medical uses of steroids to the use for athletic performance alone and focus on your misinterpretation of the research.

"One study stated that 140 mg. of testosterone cypionate and testosterone enanthate produced similar blood levels after injection, and stated that heightened blood levels decreased to basal levels by day ten. With higher doses the duration appears to increase a little with another study stating that with an injection of 200 mg. of testosterone cypionate blood levels reached basal levels by days 13 to 14."

So according to this research, a typical dose of 600mg/week of test enanthate would take close to 3 weeks to release and allow your basal levels to be restored. They mention that 140mg/week of eth will be gone in 10 days.

Therefore, dosages used by athletes will show effects that are drastically different than traditional medical doses.

Your body produces an average of up to 70mg of test per week, so 140mg per week (which is the dosage mentioned that allows basal levels to be restored in 10 days) it nothing worth mentioning when it comes to athletic use.

In conclusion, the use of steroids for athletic performance will be on a different level when people are thinking about when it "kicks in" (since most users to not test their T levels daily).

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Sust has two esters that release relatively fast (i.e. prop and phenylprop) and they make up 90mg of the 250mg solution.
The other two esters take longer to release (i.e. isocaproate and decanoate) that make up 160mg of the remaining 250mg solution. Therefore, the long lasting esters are much more predominant than the faster releasing ones.

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Good catch. It is late you know...lol. I will edit it.

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If you think a person will notice that they are peaking with less than 400-600mg of test active in their system (which takes a few weeks to build up) then you need to do a few more cycles.

There is a theoretical and practical side to using gear. The two can be very different.

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As long as both sides are logical, we are just exchanging ideas and not judging characters.

We seem to have a failure to communicate properly. You are interpreting a different meaning from the phrase "kick in".

I don't see why you cannot step back and see that we are not discussing the biochemical aspects of testosterone peaking in your system and instead are discussing the time the majority of users experience the most mass and strength gains from long lasting esters. This does not mean that a person does not growth at all until the 4th week, but rather grows the most beginning the 4th week.

Please do me a favor and use 400mg of eth a week for 8 weeks and keep a detailed journal of mass and strength gains. You will only understand if you experience it yourself.

By far, the consensus of personal experience from many users leads me to my conclusion.

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You need to make sure you are getting 4000 quality calories per day and about 1-1.5g of protein per pound to see great gains from gear.

Most of your gains will come from diet, so concentrate on that more than the dosage.

You will start to notice gains in a wek or two (as long as you are getting enough calories).

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You got ATTITUDE!

I don't really agree with you on this one, because it is not just the extra testosterone that makes you grow.

Remember what Dan Duchaine said about estrogen levels. That basically your estrogen levels also need to be pretty high to cause growth. That is why he said that Nolvedex reduce the effectiveness of your cycle.

If you are using testosterone on it's own it will take a while for the estrogen levels to build up, it just won't happen over night. It depends on the number of aromatase enzymes in your body.

When I have used the long acting tests I usually experience my best growth when my nipples start to get itchy, i.e when my estrogen levels are starting to peak. Then of course I introduce nolvedex to prevent having nice tit's.

I trained naturally for years. Then my partner who is big and got me into juice said that the weights will move smoother once am on juice. Well the first injection was about 2 hours before my workout. The weights move smoothly. I didn't shake trying to push the weights like before.

So what I am trying to say is, test does affect you right away. My first cycle, I put on 5lbs in 2 days and the workout seemed easy.

It depends what testosterone you were using. If it was Prop, suspension or even Sustanone which contains small amounts of prop and as a first time user you would experience an almost immediate increase in strenght and size.

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It's All Good Bro's!!!

Read The World Anabolic review a bit more closely. Unfortunately I don't have it with me at this moment, but there is a reference to Dan suggesting that steroids do not work as well if you totally block the action of estrogen.

Ok you don't want your estrogen levels matching your test levels that would be stupid, but there is a theory going around that suggest it is the extra estrogen produced by the aromatization of exogenous testosterone that causes an increase in IGF-1 production in the Liver.

Ask yourself this, why do you think women make amazing gains on small amounts of steroids?

August 2000 to September 2000

HE will be missed..........NOT
Chef always say's "IF you can't stand the heat....get out of my Fucking Kitchen....." If you can't debate with folks then..DON'T Debate!!!!

Chef

Recap-
week 1 no change in power, slight weight gain (ate to much)
week 2 no change in power, slight weight gain
week 3 slight change in power, more weight gain
week 4 all lifts improved and some zits to deal with, more weight gain
week 5 this stuff is great!!!

My 6 rep weight on bench press became a 10 rep weight for 5 easy sets. I am sure the max bench is up by 20lbs at least (which would make it 465) Squatts were super easy with 500 last week. I started at 240 lbs, and weighed 257 this morning and was told just yesterday that I look leaner. (from eating clean foods)

Go ahead kick me in the nuts, if you dare. I was told to be patient for a few weeks, and the gains would come...they did!

As for the estrogen debate, the agricultural science researchers have shown that estrogen/androgen combinations do display greater overall gains, but estrogen is not necessary for growth. This should be evident with the number of people who have used anti-estrogens or aromatase inhibitors, and still made gains. The proposed reason women make great gains from steroids is that they have lower numbers of androgen receptors and upon administration there is an up-regulation of AR's. At least this seems to be the case from the research on female animal species and castrated males.

I think 60 of you have left one small thing out. Your reactions to test are individual ones. Making a broad statement that test takes 4 weeks to kick in is wrong, as is saying that it only takes 1 day.

I think this 4 wks stuff is crap. I tell newbies to give their cycle some time because I get tired of hearing them say...."I'm not growing".....for whatever reasons.

I have no scientific clues as to when your blood levels will increase.....estrogen or whatever. I can gaurantee all of you that if I hit even minor amounts of Sust, I feel an impact within about a day and notice a marked drop off after no injections within 1 1/2 wks.

SO maybe everyone is not the same ?! What works for me might not work for 2thick or E2. I know of nothing in this world that is set in concrete. Lets respect everyones opinion and stop this b.s.

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That which does not kill you makes you stronger.

Just two points to add here:

#1: Sustanon is created with the various esters so there is no "peak" to testosterone levels. It's used to allow a steady level of free testosterone in the blood system for 3+ weeks.

#2: If a person on Sustanon were to have their testosterone tested a couple days after their first injection, the test would show a "peak" after about two days. Why? Most blood tests are generic, meaning they don't differentiate between free and bound testosterone. Therefore, even though Sustanon will allow a relatively level amount of free testosterone in the body, the total will be reduced at a constant level.