GEORGE SPELLWIN'S ANNOUNCEMENTS
Enlightening Men about Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding for over Two Decades
|
 Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Taraxtone and the Gear? One more boys!
|
| Author | Topic: Taraxtone and the Gear? One more boys! | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 76 |
Alright guys heres question two: For the most part it is inevitable to gain a high percentage of water-weight during most cycles. So my question is what's the effect of using a supplement like Taraxtone during a cycle.     | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
Come on bro's. | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 232 |
Personally, I would wait until after the cycle, maybe in the last weeks when you're taking your clomid...but like the other one, I'm not completely sure, so I'll bump this one up, too...same thing, drop me a line when you get some good answers! ------------------  | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
You got it Badkins, hey I know were not the only one's on now. Lets go guys. | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 278 |
Alot of the water weight that you get from the gear is what helps you with your immedate strenght gains, I wouldn't worry about it, you can lower the bloat by drinking water... ------------------ | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
Come on bros. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1229 |
Columbo is right. Water retention is what gives you those huge strength gains. That is why alot of people notice a drop in strength when they start nolvadex because it gets rid of that water retention. Save it till after the cycle. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
I lke taraxatone, I think if you are lean enough it will get that little bit of water out from under your skin, making you look more defined. However the water retention you are talking about, forget it, it will really not do much for you, it may make you pee a little more. It is more suited for cutting cycles. Drink a ton of water bro, and lay off the sodium. ------------------ | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
The drop in strength would be attibuted to the decrease in estrogen not less water retention, however less water retention means less weight gain, so some people feel less gains, I guess it depends on how you look at it. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Decaman (edited September 01, 2000).] | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
The reason you get most of the bloating is from the estrogen so I know that blocking it will cause that water retention to go away. But you still must agree that intramuscular water retention is what gives you most of your immediate strength gains from drugs like dbol, right? So it only makes sense that getting rid of the water retention would reduce that strength boost. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
In actuality you are reducing estrogen which in turn reduces water retention which in turn the two will account for the decrease in strength. It all begins with the reduction of estrogen not water retention. You aren't gonna take nolva and just reduce water retention without decreasing estrogen. I SIMPLY SHOULD HAVE SAID BLOCKING INSTEAD OF REDUCING [This message has been edited by Decaman (edited September 01, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Decaman (edited September 02, 2000).] | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
In addition steroids increase androgen levels, which in turn enhances the rate at which protein is retained by the muscles which will lead to muscle growth which will lead to increased strength. So although water retention plays a role it is not the main reason for stregth increase it just comes with the territory. ------------------ | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
quote: Decaman, I may be wrong here but from what I have always read, Nolvadex does nothing to lower estrogen, it only competes for receptor sites, therefore preventing its effects on the body, which in turn reduces the water retention and this could be attributed to SOME loss in strength. Am I right or am I remembering wrong?? | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
Oh come on a good debate is good info for everyone, no malice intended bro. You just caught me in the mood for a good debate I am as bored as the next guy. ------------------ | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
Look above you, I am debating you. We must have been typing at the same time and you didn't see my comment. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
Your move... | ||
|
Cool Novice 
Posts: 48 |
The way i look at it-unless your on a cutting cycle you should take full advantage of the water weight for strength and size gains during the cycle-you can always cut up after that. ------------------ | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
What nolva does is simply this - it binds to estrogen recptors, blocking estrogen from exerting any action, meaning less effect of the estrogen in the body . Sorry for wording it wrong, same meaning, decreases the EFFECT of the estrogen in the body. That was not the issue the issue was that water retention causes strength gain , when in fact what causes the water retention is what causes the strength gain. NOT EVEN DECREASE IS CORRECT BLOCKS IS MORE LIKE IT. [This message has been edited by Decaman (edited September 01, 2000).] | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
Sorry to get on you for the way you worded it but you asked for it! But in all honesty I agree so there is no point in debating if we are both debating the same side. But feel free to start a debateable (spelling?) thread and I will be more than happy to jump in and debate with you, brutha. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
Got on me? Is that what you think you did? I asked for it? ANd if I did you are not the one to be giving it to me. That is funny. Believe me I would have let you known if I thought you got on me, let's leave it at that. Besides what is there to get on me about? We are not debating the same thing, you are still skirting the water retention is the main reason for strength gain issue, that was the whole point of this debate until you could not back uyp what you said so you looked for fault in something I said, when in fact all i did was word it wrong, the meaning was still the same less estrogen vs less effect of estrogen. ------------------ | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
Yes being as how I quoted you and then pointed out how you made a false statement by saying that Nolvadex decreases estrogen, I would say I got on you. And what the hell do you mean that I couldn't back it up? I was trying to say the same thing you were saying the whole time. I have known what nolva does for several years now ever since I first got interested in AS. My whole point to responding to this topic in the first place was because He asked if he should use taraxatone and I and several others brought up the point that decreasing the water retention will decrease the immediate strength gains that you get from strong androgens. I have a copy of the elite anabolics report right here and I can clearly see what nolva does. Nolvadex prevents estrogen related side effects by binding to estrogen receptors. When the actions of estrogen are blocked at the receptors, all of the estrogen related sides such as water retention, gyno and female pattern fat distibution are stopped. I can back up any simple question about nolva bro. Just because I chose not too does not mean that I can't. I think most of us clearly know what nolvadex does so I didn't feel the need to explain it. I simply stated this: "Columbo is right. Water retention is what gives you those huge strength gains. That is why alot of people notice a drop in strength when they start nolvadex because it gets rid of that water retention. Save it till after the cycle." Why I needed to explain the actions of nolvadex here is beyond me. His question had nothing to do with how nolvadex works. My statement was true, even if I didn't explain the full actions of nolvadex, because frankly there was no need to. Nolvadex does cause a drop in water retention by preventing the effects of estrogen on the receptors. So how was my statement false and why was there a need to point out how nolva works??? And BTW, you tried to correct me when there wasn't even anything that needed to be corrected and then you went and made a false statement concerning nolvadex. This is honestly the silliest debate I have ever been in. I keep trying to end it and you keep it going but I am the type of person who likes to get the last word so I won't stop until you do, brutha. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
You keep saying I made a false statement, when in fact i simply left a word out, lets go back to the beginning. Less estrogen, less effect or blocking of estrogen, where is that a false statement? It was simply worded wrong. And again this was not about nolva , why do you keep saying that, it was about the statement that water retention causes strength gains, when in fact it is whatever causes the water retention that causes the strength gains, in this case we are talking about higher androgen levels. I wish I had a book on my lap to refer to also but I do not, so we can continue this when I am not at a disadvanatge due to a lack of literature. And the reason it won't die is because you came off before like you were correcting me and I asked for it, and you continue to come off that way WHEN THERE IS NOTHING TO CORRECT. You are beginning to get personal with the false statement line, I would prefer not too, you are pushing the issue. Get the last word if you want, however do not say I made a false statement, because that is a false statement on your part. In addition if this all started with taraxatone reducing water retention, let it be known that taraxatone is for water retention beneath the skin, not intra muscular. I would use the quote thing , but i find it very offensive , so i will not. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Decaman (edited September 02, 2000).] | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
Decaman, I am not taking this personally. You said you wanted to debate but the problem is that I have no clue why or what it is we are debating about. We are cool bro, so why are we doing this?? Feel free to quote anything I have said, as I will not take offense to it. And if you took offense when I quoted you then don't because there was no offense intended. My original statement was that getting rid of the water retention would cause a drop in strength because water retention is what gives you those fast strength gains and that is why most people see a drop in strength when taking nolvadex because it gets rid of that water retention. I don't think the mechanism by which it gets rid of the water retention was important in this case, yet you pointed it out so I took that like you were correcting my former statement, because that is what it looks like. So I responded and it just went back and forth and I don't know what happened. You seemd like you were being critical of my statements, so in return, I was being critical of yours by pointing out when you made a misleading statement. You said that nolva reduces estrogen which it does not. I know what you meant but like I said you were acting like you were correcting me so I was doing the same. Please don't take offense from my statements as I feel like I have just been defending myself this whole thread. And also you stated that I could not back up what I said and that is also a false statement. I could back up what I said but I did not see the need to because you had just stated how nolvadex works. And if Taraxatone doesn't cause a loss in intramuscular water retention then I am wrong about it. I do not know anything about taraxatone and how it works. I simply assume that if something is gonna get rid of water retention, then it is gonna get rid of it everywhere, including intramuscular. You have been the one who has tried to correct every single statement I have made so I feel like I am defending myself and I guess that is why it sounds like I am taking it personally, but I am not. And please feel free to quote me so you can point out to me what I said to start this debate because I don't see it. Come on bro, we are both intelligent individuals and this is a very unintelligent argument so why are we continuing it. I am not trying to start anything here. Like I said I have felt like I have been defending myself this whole time because it sounded like you were attacking my statements. If not then I apologize, because that is just what it seemed like you were doing. Peace bro...Mav | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
Hey decaman, you out there? | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 294 |
So you bros' don't feel crazy for debating yourselves, I am up reading and this makes for good reading. ------------------ "Pain is weakness leaving the body>>>" | ||
|
Cool Novice
Posts: 27 |
Personally I don't think anybody should ever try to lose water weight unless they are getting ready for a competition or really need to look good for the beach. There is always a rebound effect and it's not good for you anyway. The only thing that permanently sheds water, like a few guys have said here, is drinking lots of water. And like they said, don't worry about retaining water because a lot of that water is in your muscles and makes you very strong. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1159 |
Hey bro , we are cool. Any subject as complex as steroids in general, can be debated over and over. What causes things to occur can be linked to many different things , and i don't see any statement by either one of us that is false, just interpreted a different way. If I said anything to offend I apologize. | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1229 |
Cool bro. Honestly I still don't know how we got into this. I think we were both misinterpreting each others intentions. Peace...Mav |
All times are ET (US) | |
 |
|
|
posted August 31, 2000 11:38 PM