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  I think i have a partial solution to the pro's drug abuse problem....read on

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Author Topic:   I think i have a partial solution to the pro's drug abuse problem....read on
BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 29, 2000 12:12 AM

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most of them are on all types of anabolic compounds for years on end. Why would you do that? I mean, doesn't it seem logical to "cycle" your drugs, allowing for your recptors to recover. Also, what about starting light and waiting untill that no longer works before using stonger anabolics and higher dosages? I can honestly say that if i had about another forty-fity pounds of muscle i could compete with any of em'. I feel very confident that i can accomplish this through dedication, patience, and very careful and thought out drug usage. But drug usage is beside the point, the fact of the matter is dedication and endurance through years and years of hard training is what i'm banking on. If you center your life around bodybuilding, if it is your one and only desire, and you put out 100% day after day, i believe that no amount of drug use can be substituted for a lack of the above. The drugs simply make it more satisfying. It's kinda sad thinking that if these guys took a cycle like myself, they would proably shrink fairly rapidly.This all makes me wonder if any of the top pro's use their drugs like this? I know that's how i'll be doing it...see ya at the show guys.

[This message has been edited by BillyBadAss (edited August 29, 2000).]


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cantgetlayed

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 268
From:Sustville, DecAmerica aka Illinois
Registered: May 2000

posted August 29, 2000 12:20 AM

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I agree totally, though I am yet to cycle, I believe the experiance of being on AS would be quite euphoric. I think knowing that I'd lose all I had worked so hard for just by ceasing the use of drugs which could be detrimental to my health you make me very depressed. I think cycling is the only way to go, as it allows for consistant muscle growth over a matter of 2 decades in one's life.

------------------
LUVS2JUICE, you're my hero


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giantset

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 333
From:...under your bed, in your closet, in your head...
Registered: Jan 2000

posted August 29, 2000 12:41 AM

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I think that you are forgetting that many people believe that receptor downgrade is a bullshit theory and that constant use is the only way to go. After you reach a certain point it takes a shit load more to grow any further. Also, unless you are very gifted genetically and extremely dedicated, it is very difficult to maintain that much mass while dieting. I do agree though that from the articles and so called interviews, it appears that pros are relying too much on the drugs and losing the hardcore training mentality that they started with.

Later,
giantset


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 30, 2000 02:28 PM

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damn, i guess no one was interested


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Recoome

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 292
From:
Registered: Jun 2000

posted August 30, 2000 05:00 PM

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You guys are right, today's guys have nowhere near the training mentality of bodybuilders form the 60's and 70's. When you combine good genetics with IGF-1, GH, megadoses of roids, T3, PGF2, and Insulin, you don't need to be hardcore with your training.


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Maverik

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1213
From:Mount Olympus
Registered: Jun 2000

posted August 30, 2000 05:08 PM

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Yep it is like I have said before, it is more of a battle of drugs than a battle of men. Damn shame it has come to that.


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Bjaarki

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 339
From:Central NJ
Registered: Jul 2000

posted August 30, 2000 05:13 PM

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I don't agree with Billy or Recoome. Pro BB's not only gear like hell, they workout and train like demons!

Why do you say that today's pros don't have the stuff of the earlier generation? They're all a HELL of a lot bigger! I don't say that's good - too much mass is unappealing, to me - but it's true.

Fact is, just as you say, gear is not a substitute for hard work and discipline. But the pros know that, and use both. It's a lot of the little gearheads on this board and elsewhere who think they can substitute gear for dedication. You should complain about "the wannabes' drug abuse problem," not the pros'.

My $.02.

Bjaarki


------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO!


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DreamingBig

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 162
From:California
Registered: Jan 2000

posted August 30, 2000 05:30 PM

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Let me see . . . you are saying that pros rely on drugs not the (hard-assed) training that inable them to reach the heights that they reach today. Hhhhmmm...isn't that exactly what most people would say about YOU and your use of anabolic compounds (ie. roids). But you say: "I bust my ass in the gym day in and day out",.... like the pros don't. Come on guys have you seen training videos of Dorian (just to name one) and how he used to train -- balls out. Gear is just ONE (or three or four or five...) element/s impemented by the pros to attain the physique they have today. This is not a flame to anyone just a reminder not to fall into the same trap that most of society falls into when they find out ANYONE is on roids: "I could do that or look just like that if I took as many drugs as they do." I am always seeing threads stating that society doesn't know how hard it is to get to the point many of our members here are at, that society only points to use of gear, well it seems that train-of-thought has crossed over here too. Just (for those of you saying it is mostly drugs) remember that the next time someone discounts your hard work in the gym to just roid use. Sorry if I offended anyone, just my point of view. Later bros.

DreamingBig


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Bjaarki

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 339
From:Central NJ
Registered: Jul 2000

posted August 30, 2000 08:16 PM

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Exactly, DB. You said it much more clearly than I did. Dream on!

Bjaarki


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Monster

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 466
From:
Registered: May 2000

posted August 30, 2000 09:24 PM

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BillyBadAss, you just undercut your own point. At one instance youre saying that they should be "cycleing" and doing AS your way, then you go on to say that if they cycled like you theyd shrink up. EXACTLY!

As for the 40-50 pounds you think you need to put you on par with them... those are the hardest pounds to gain. They do what they do because, even with tremendous genetic potential they have to take their bodies PAST the point of their advanced genetics. Unless you have highly above average genetics, forget it. This is what seperates the IFBB pros from the local contest winner, and the NPC winners, and the guys who get a pro card and are never seen again!
As for centering your life around bodybuilding 100%... what do you think they do? Its kind of immature to sit there and try and act like you have more desire and work ethic than a pro does? Ive been around pros (IFBB and NABF) and trained with them more than a few times. If you think any person alive has more drive, its time to grow up!
I appreciate your confidence in yourself, and its great, but theres gyms full of people who are confident, and they all think they are THE MOST CONFIDENT!
I dont know what you weigh, or what you will weigh with the 40-50 pounds you hope to gain, but keep in mind that the pros hit the stage at say 5% body fat, and still Kevin Levrone at 248lbs, Shawn Ray 212lbs, Milos Sacrev 255lbs, Gunter 290lbs, Nasser 280lbs, Paul Dillet 275lbs. And these fuckers NEVER do that well. Aside from the occaisional fluke, or the IFBB throwing them a bone, forget it. Whats the last thing Ray, Sacrev, Levrone or Gunter won?
Everyone knows that Levrone and Ray are too small to win anything of consequence. Even with asthetically fantastic packages!
No flame to you bro, but what you say just sounds like bravado and chest beating coming from someone too young to know better... and like I said, I hope you dont take offense!!!
Unless you can offer a 250lb, ripped to the bone physique with well above average genetics and development, its a no-go!
And as far as giving it 100%, outside of Ronnie Coleman, if you have a job you arent giving it 100%. Pros LIVE this. Not just have 100% motivation. The gym and eating is the job.
Im sorry if it seems like Im ragging on you, but Ive seen this so often. Not just in the bodybuilding world, but in the high school athelete that is "Going all the way to the pros!". Its unrealistic. But to try and say that those who have made it dont know what theyre doing is just crazy...


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Monster

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 466
From:
Registered: May 2000

posted August 30, 2000 09:40 PM

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Again, I know this has the potential to turn ugly, so I wanna say again that we're just talking. Its all good!


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TEXASAMM

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 247
From: TX USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted August 30, 2000 11:27 PM

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good thread. bump it up


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sour jerk

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 437
From:bklyn ny usa
Registered: Jul 2000

posted August 31, 2000 12:09 AM

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monster is a wise man.how can you imply that the pro's dont know what theyre doing.i dont care what dreams you got in your head cycling will get you no where these days.
not even top amatuers cycle.
where do you get off thinking your gonna be
the first to achieve this, is baffeling??????
its funny you say you'll achieve this through dedication and hard work as if these pro's sleep in the gym.
id like to see your pix since you claim in 40-50lb youll be competing with the likes of coleman and flex.have you ever even competed in your life.
grow up,sounds like you need to develop your mind before you develop your body....
its a shame reading went out of style..

s()(...)/''..)e/''k

ps.please dont take this as a flame im just trying to wake you up....


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 02:37 AM

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Critics i love critics. First off, a lot of pro's either lie about their routines, or they train like lazy bastards. Dorian talking about two sets, granted they were crazy sets, but that's weak. His predecessor Ernie taylor describes his back workout as pull ups, pull downs, one arm machine rows, and seated rows. All for a total of 7 sets. No t bar rows, deadlifts, barbell rows, any of that. By the way, i am growing....but not up. I will make you eat your words. Wait till i post some pics jackass. I may be over confident....in your opinion. How the hell am I supposed to achieve the physique that these guys have if i doubt whether or not i can do it? By the way, thanx for the support, i'm glad that the bro's on this board are all real happy that i plan on being a pro bodybuilder...don't criticize me for trying. You inconsiderate pencil necks couldn't even bother to answer my original question, so it looks like you just want to rag on me.By the way, if a any given pro bb'er were on say, about 15 different drugs, then it's only logical that he would loose muscle mass on my cycle. I can grow on two or three drugs very well, at average doses.
These guys take more drugs, higher doses, and for longer durations.


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 02:47 AM

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Lets see, today i woke up and ate, went to the gym and did legs, came home and ate, road my bike for 15 miles, then i ate, then i did abs and calves, then i ate again, went back to the gym and did biceps, came home and ate, watched t.v., and ate again, and again before i went to bed ( which is where i would be if you guys wern't on my Gotdamn jock) My leg routine was 6 sets of squats, 4 sets of leg press, 4 sets of hacks, and four sets of leg extensions. Biceps included four sets of olypic curls with a wide grip, four sets with a narrow grip. 4 sets of preacher dumbbell, two sets of cables, two sets of kneeling curls, and i ran the weight stack on a curl machine. This workout included forced reps, drop sets, and negative work, peak contraction on every rep for biceps.


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giantset

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 333
From:...under your bed, in your closet, in your head...
Registered: Jan 2000

posted August 31, 2000 03:02 AM

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Damn BillyB, you do all of that without overtraining? You must be eating a truckload and sleeping when not lifting.

In my first post I didn't mean to imply that the pros don't go at it hardcore. What I was trying to say is that from these bullshit articles with the mysterious pro bodybuilder interviews, it appears that pros are focusing more on drugs than training. I don't have a clue as to what the pros actually do but many articles out now are insinuating that many pros train half asleep and some are lazy in their training. They must have at least hit it hard to get to where they are now but some could be slackers and just try to maintain now that they are at the top of their game.

Later,
giantset


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T-Man-X

Cool Novice

Posts: 17
From:Dexter, MO USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted August 31, 2000 04:46 AM

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Dorian Yates needed 40-45 min. workouts maybe 4 times a week so you need to workout like 20 hours+ a week? How do you figure? No wonder Mike Mentzer get's a hardon talking about overtraining. And you know how Arnold used to workout for hours and hours? He doesn't do that shit anymore. 45 min. workouts.


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T-Man-X

Cool Novice

Posts: 17
From:Dexter, MO USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted August 31, 2000 04:50 AM

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BTW, are you training to be a bodybuilder or a marathon runner? There's an old saying: you can lift hard, or you can lift for a long time, but you can't lift hard for long.


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Recoome

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 292
From:
Registered: Jun 2000

posted August 31, 2000 05:05 AM

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Um, today's pros overtrain just as much as yesterday's guys (Priest does 20 sets a bodypart). I agree with giantset, I always hear about how Wheeler and Dillett train half-assed, I'd like those guys to match intensity with Tom Platz, Arnold, Mike Mentzer, or Franco Columbo. You watch the old videos and old pictures and these guys are screaming their heads off.

[This message has been edited by Recoome (edited August 31, 2000).]


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media

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 171
From:Belgrade, Yugoslavia
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 05:06 AM

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T ... I think you are right. One hour max. And Billy, my congrats man if you realy can go through all that shit without overtraining, or something more serious than that. Maybe I am too old (32), but I think that is way too much.


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madmitch

Cool Novice

Posts: 39
From:Northern Ireland
Registered: Jul 2000

posted August 31, 2000 05:26 AM

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It's not so much the pro's know what they are doing as the pro's Doctors know what they are doing.

Do you think that their contracts only include money and all the supplements they want for free. Bollocks. Their contracts include being introduced to some of the best damn steroid Doctors in sports medicine around today.

That will throw the cat among the pigeons.


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Bjaarki

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 339
From:Central NJ
Registered: Jul 2000

posted August 31, 2000 08:14 AM

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Bros, have you ever heard the phrase, "Beware the arrogance of youth?" That's all that's gotten into Billy. I can relate, used to have a pretty bad case of it myself, but life has a way of humbling the arrogant.

As Monster says, It's All Good!

Take care, all.

Bjaarki


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 01:34 PM

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Arrogant, eh? Better to be arrogant in my case as opposed to being ignorant in yours.
Everybody is different, some people can get away with fewer sets. Me, I need to do about twenty for larger muscle groups and about 15 for smaller ones. It's not that hard to avoid over training, as long as you are eating and sleeping right. By the way, I usually take one day off from the gym every two weeks. 14 days on, 1 day off. So far, it's worked very well. But guys, lets get back to the topic...."I think I have a partial solution...." Bottom line is that professional bodybuilding is more about the drugs than the desire. This is not the case for every IFBB pro. I really just wonder if any of the pro's out there cycle their drugs. I also wonder if there are any pro's who don't spend $60000 a year on drugs.


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 01:37 PM

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Bump for that dumbass monster.


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Bjaarki

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 339
From:Central NJ
Registered: Jul 2000

posted August 31, 2000 02:07 PM

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Billy:

Listen, bro. I have no problem with your training routine. Sounds intense, to say the least, but my philosophy is not too different from yours. I also "overtrain" (whatever the fuck that is!) according to the "experts," but it works for me.

I was responding to your remarks that pros get big through, primarily, drug use. DreamingBig, Monster, and the other bros have been jumping on you about your attitude about that, and I think they're right. The pros get as big as they get (grotesquely big in some cases, in my opinion) because they use drugs, and because they discipline themselves and train like total maniacs. I mean, these guys are like another species altogether. They do everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, to excel. AS use is like the least of the story, what with insulin, thyroid meds, and all kinds of other shit that is just CRAZY, IMO. But underneath all that is an intense motivation, as expressed through workouts that are just insane, in terms of length, intensity, weights moved, you name it. I thought (and still think) that you are arrogant in your assumption that you know better than these guys, and that you know the true path to greatness.

I really meant it when i said the REAL drug abuse problem is among BB wannabe's, not pros. That should be your thread's title.

Again, man, I identify with your youthful arrogance. You're probably a pretty good guy, and will do well in the iron game. But lighten up a little, bro. We're all friends here, and only criticize you in order to help you make more of yourself.

Meanwhile, it wouldn't hurt for a mod to lock this thread. Too much flaming going over the net. Billy, you can email me offline if you want to continue this.

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO!


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 03:10 PM

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Good response, bro. It is true that many wannabe's have a more severe drug problem than some of the top pro's. I just want to know if any pro's cycle their drugs, and if any of them EVER train naturally. All over this board it has been said that you should wait at least the duration you were on before starting a new cycle, Why is there this discrepancy with the pro's? I think that they could achieve the same amount of muscle mass in a longer period of time if they did things differently.....I appreciate the criticism...it only makes me better, like you said.


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Monster

Pro Bodybuilder

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From:
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 05:16 PM

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I wont respond to this thread again after this. Its obvious that our bro here is too young to take any criticism (especially when it leads to looking at himself) and I dont need to get into a pitiful little flame war with anyone. Someone on this board refered to them as "telephone tough guys"... appropriate. Ive been as high as 275lbs in competition shape, I have nothing to prove and only try to CONTRIBUTE to this board. Im not here to win people over or impress anyone.


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Twisted_Steel

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 784
From: South Carolina
Registered: Apr 2000

posted August 31, 2000 05:43 PM

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Being an IFBB pro has to do with three things in this order. NO EXCEPTIONS. A. GENETIC POTENTIAL, B. DRUGS (IN VAST QUANTITIES) C. whatever the hell else they want to do. Because it doesnt matter when your doing a serostim kit a week.

------------------
215LBS of Twisted Steel and Pure Sex Appeal!


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted August 31, 2000 06:58 PM

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275 contest shape, eh? Post a pic, then i'll shut up. Unless you're name is El Sonbaty or Kovacs, i doubt you're telling the truth. Besides, you were the one who had to go and take this thread and turn it around into an excuse to flame me....proably just jealous if ya ask me. Please don't respond to the thread again...each time you do you look that much more ignorant.Better yet, enlighten us to which contest you entered at 275. I'll find it and verify this. I have a feeling we'll never see a pic....or hear which contest this was....unless it was a powerlifting contest...or a contest for the weak, obese, and just plain ugly. Do me a favor bro, leave me alone.....you're starting to piss me off.


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T-Man-X

Cool Novice

Posts: 17
From:Dexter, MO USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted September 01, 2000 01:57 AM

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By the way, did you know a lot of pros suck dick to be able to pay for their drugs? How glamorous. Did you ever notice how a noname places in a contest and then all the sudden shows up with 25 extra pounds of muscle for the next contest? A lot of times that's because a lot of old rich queer guys are such big fans and supporters of these bodybuilders. A bodybuilder to them is like a supermodel is to us. There is NO money in bodybuilding compared to other "sports". I workout to workout, not because I think it's a stepping stone to fame and fortune. Christ, how many people even show up for the biggest bodybuilding contests? Not as many as you will find at the stadium watching the shittiest baseball team 162 games a year.


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Twisted_Steel

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 784
From: South Carolina
Registered: Apr 2000

posted September 01, 2000 09:23 AM

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Most of the pros dont coordinate their drugs. Men lik milos sarcev and Charles P are paid for that expressed purpose

------------------
215LBS of Twisted Steel and Pure Sex Appeal!


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Jback

Cool Novice

Posts: 44
From:RI
Registered: Apr 2000

posted September 01, 2000 09:42 AM

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I just got back from a trip to California-naturally I went to Gold's in Venice. I saw both Chris Cormier and Jay Cutler work out. I mainly saw Cormier. He did three sets of flat bech dumbells with the one-thirty's,one-fifty's,one sixty's. 12-10-8. Then three sets of incline hammerstrength and three sets of decline flyes. By the time he was done I don't even think he was sweating. He looked like he was working harder walking on the treadmill afterwards. I never saw him do one forced rep or even struggle to put his last rep up. Just my expereince.

------------------
If not Today-Then why Tommorrow


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BillyBadAss

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:Needleinass City, Flex's N' Texas
Registered: May 2000

posted September 01, 2000 09:14 PM

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jback is an eye witness to the pro's laziness


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