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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Back To Basics: Test is not for virgins.
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| Author | Topic: Back To Basics: Test is not for virgins. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 676 |
Ok, I dont post stuff like this a lot but Ive noticed a large number of bros who want to use the various testosterones for a first cycle. I know test gets thrown around this board alot, but it is not good for a first time cycle as it is one of the most powerful types of steroids. If you have never taken steroids, the weaker compounds such as Dianabol, winstrol, Equipoise, Deca-Durabolin, Primobolan Depot, Anavar, will yield good gains if taken alone or stacked reasonably. Once you have noticed that these stacked drugs are no longer effective then a testosterone based cycle is called for. Of course all of this may not be practical because of availability, and individual goals. It is,however, one of the best ways I know to start out on a lasting path of intelligent steroid use. ------------------     | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 489 |
good advice | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 264 |
why exactly should one not use testo on a first cycle...it is the natural, abundant steroid in the body, and as such its effects are quite predicatable. aside from the androgenic sides being more pronounced and test levels being affected to a greater degree...both of which can be taken care of with the proper use of ancillory drugs--why then should one stay away from test. testo is abundant on the market, reliable and a cost-effective choice for someone looking to use steroids for the first time...a simple application of 200-600mgs of enanthate a week will yield excellent results to a novice. winstrol affects cholestorel levels to a greater extent, and is a 17aa drug.......dianabol--safer than test? Unity66 | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 555 |
It sounds like you graduated with honors from the 2Thick school of juice. hehehehheh. But even though I disagree I can respect your opinion. But I will say that for me test is king. Just because a newbie starts with test instead of Deca doesn't mean that they are not on a lasting path of intelligent steroid use either. Test can be a wonderful thing for a newbie. Given the right diet, Training routine, and knowledge of what to do after a cycle to keep the gains. Just because it's not right for you doesn't make it wrong for the next guy. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
I wasnt talking about safety unity66, I was talking about initial effectiveness vs later effectiveness. Of course test will give anyone results, but I dont think its needed for first timers. Once your body builds a tolerance to the weaker drugs, test is strong enough to break through at reasonable doses. I think this makes better sense than starting with test and having a long term tolerance start earlier. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 677 |
What am I hearing?.....Dont use test your first cycle?.....This has got to be a bad joke....I would have fucked up if i hadnt used test my first cycle.....borrowing a phrase from E2.."test is the best"......if you dont use a test on your first cycle, you're fucking up........ ------------------ | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 5 |
I don't agree about not using test...the problem is more the amounts people recommend for a first cycle. I've read posts that recommended people stacking 500 mg test with 300 - 400 mg of deca. That's 800 mg of steroids for a first cycle. Without even knowing the guy's age, height, weight etc. Nothing wrong with using 250 mg of sustanon for 8 weeks. KISS | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
Ok low doses make more sense. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 31 |
If a person is just wanting to do one or two cycles......test is the way to go. But if a person was going to do multiple cycles, then superdave is right. Less can be more! Bubba | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 171 |
I'm with you Superdave, but I had to use test in my first cycle because I could'nt afford the better stuff like winny. I would not have taken test for my first cycle if I could get the other things for a better price. I think that noone should take test for their first cycle unless absolutely necessary. | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 1641 |
Well, It looks like someone has been reading Paul Borresen.....No Test.....!! I totally disagree with this, and the fact that you have placed Dbol as weak....!! Test should be a base for all cycles...how much, and how often should be determined by age, height, weight, and level of experience in their own body, training, diet..etc.!! Winny, in my opinion for a first cycle(as a base) is a waste of good money, and will yeild very little in the way of the mass results we are looking for....test, even at low dosages will out do, and out live deca, and the others.....! Test got us this far, and it's what makes us the sweat Gods of Iron we are, and hope to be...anything else will leave you short of your ultimate goal in life...!!! Just my opinion, but test rules the world!!!!!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 894 |
I have to agree that low, or no, test for a first timer is the way to start. Then build up from there. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 555 |
Well said Ranger! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 51 |
Superdave, Did you say "weaker compounds like dianabol" That's about as potent as you can get for an oral (other than androl) | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 79 |
I to disagree with the �not using test� for a newbie jus starting out. I do agree with moderate dosages for someone just starting out on the juice. I have been reading this board for a few months and have seen a few a few posts where guys new to training on the juice are using 1000mg of test. I would be a hypocrite if I said that I think using high amounts of juice is wrong, the first cycle I started with was 1000mg of sustanon per week. However looking back on it I think that a more reasonable approach might have been better, and would have saved me some money. My theory or experience whatever you want to call it has been that using a high dosage cycle ( example 1000 mg test per week, 40mg dianabol per day) is best followed by a low dosage cycle, it not only gives the body a break from high levels of the juice, I have also found that I have kept virtually all the gains and strength I made while on the high level cycle when I follow it with a low dosage cycle. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
liltank, I like your thinking Bro.... ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 493 |
I personally think d-bol causes many more problems whan test. There are side effects with d-bol that you can do nothing about. Hair loss is one of them. Finasteride will do nothing with d-bol but is really effective at inhibiting test from converting into DHT. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 79 |
ranger, thanks shoot me an email | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 553 |
liltank & Ranger, Are you saying alternate high and low and don't come off? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 85 |
i dont really think of it as, what u do but how much you end up doing. a beginer can get away doing androl50 if they want but the doses haave to be very small. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
you don't have your addy posted tank....shoot me one bro!!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 16 |
I'm about top start my first cycle and i'm going to base it on Sust 250 (500mg a week) and bring some deca in towards the end to help keep the gains. Although i've read you should start out light on AS as to not build up a tolerance, i was under the impression that Deca has a low degree of side effects so i figured it would be a good way to keep most of my gains from the test. Is the Deca and Sust too much for a first cycle, should i just go with the 500mg's of Sust? Thnx for any input, Rojo | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 304 |
SuperDave: There was a very good thread on exactly this issue back in April, which involved a pretty hot debate between 2Thick, E2, macrophage, and other mods and vets. I posted a reminder about that debate a couple of months ago because I thought it was pretty enlightening. Title was something like "No TEST for Newbies." You could probably look it up with Search. Seem to be good arguments on both sides of this issue. Bjaarki ------------------ BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
Depending on your size, you might want to go with 250/wk, but I dont know how big you are. It sounds ok though. ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
Go with both Rojo, But I would start the deca the same time as the Test...my opinion bro....and start the deca high and taper at the end, let the test run 2 weeks longer.... ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 16 |
My stat's are 6'3" 255 with about 15%bf that's why i was considerin 500mg's 400mg's of Deca sound good? Rojo | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 79 |
wow this thread is getting long, ranger i will shoot you an email | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
Rojo, With those stat's I would go higher on the test for the first 2 weeks(750mg's per week, an injection every three days) then 500mg's per week thereafter....deca is fine to start with, then taper the last three weeks to 300, then 200....you can mix the deca and sus....clomid at 50mg's EOD and post cycle..... ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
Yea, what ranger said is good since your big. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 891 |
i'm confused, i just read one of your threads which was talking about how you used test cyp. for your first cycle at 600mg/week... and now here you are antagonizing test being used for first cycles?? ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........ryry....good point.....counterpoint anyone???? Heh heh heh ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
i agree with the likes of Unity66 and The Ranger on this one.... also, i have fucked up quite a bit in my earlier days of juicing...but it was all fixable...the only thing i did different than many other guys is i learned what i did wrong...and improved on it every time ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 79 |
ranger, sent you an email in case you didn't get it my email is
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1081 |
I agree with superdave a little bit, but one thing that prevents most of us from doing what he says is money...winny and primo cost too much for the same effects which could be obtained by test. If winny was $50 for 20ml's don't you guys think everybody would use it? but no, winny is about 3 to 4 times more expensive domestically. So most people just opt to use test which is easily available plus cheaper. And the gains are bigger than winny and primo. Most people don't think about building tolerance anyway when they start juicin. Most of them just wanna get big fast. I've been around for a while and this is what's happening. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
Damn, you guys are good. Guess I have some explaining to do. The reason I did the cyp for the first cycle was because I had no sources (except where I got the cyp, and that was all they offered) The cyp was $85 for 4000mgs/20amps, being I rarely have money for this sort of thing and being that price is extremely cheap, I bought it. The time I acquired the cyp was May, and since I have a lightload of school during the summer and I didnt know when/how I would get anymore gear, I decided to do the cyp alone. Yes, I sound like a hypocrite now I guess and I might delete the whole thread  , however, I still think what I said above makes some sense. Let the flames begin..... ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
hell, No flame from me...I just like a good debate....stand behind what you believe in.....Game on!!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 79 |
agreed stand by whsat you think, i am otta here for an hour gotta get my soprano fix on | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 486 |
Is it a fallacy that anabolics won't work once you have done more androgenic drugs? i.e. if I do a few cycles of test and d-bol then will a cycle of eq and primo have little or no effect on me? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 347 |
I want to throw in my 2 coming from the small-framed side of the fence. I weighed 115 when I started lifting 10 years ago. My basic genetics make me an extreme ectomorph to say the least. I have tried both test and deca, and deca by itself, and now test and d-bol. I can honestly say, without reserve, that if you have shit genetics, nothing less than the best is not going to DO shit. I know that the deca was real, because my friend (a genetic god) used the same kind and he gained 15 off of his first cycle with it alone. My deca-only cycle yielded post cycle acne with no significant muscle gain. When I used TEST and deca, I gained 20 lbs after cutting. It basically transformed my body. Now I have been on test and d-bol for exactly one week tonight and I am already up 12 (yes I know it's water) lbs (182)and am pumped all the time. AND I am trying to control my apetite so I don't gain too much fat this time around in order to end at or below 10% bf. So if you have average or above genetics, start small. But if you are like me, test is definitely best!!!! [This message has been edited by Bchemist (edited August 27, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
Yes, different people have different sensitivities to steroids and if you weigh 115 and have shit genetics, obviously test is in order. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 253 |
Test is King, period. The sides are very predictable and can be kept to a minimun with use of other,safe drugs.Try telling someone who uses Deca only and cant get a hard-on that the sides associated with Test are too harsh. I firmly believe Test should be the backbone of any cycle, bulking or cutting...... ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 553 |
Ranger, Sapranos is still on so I'll direct my question to you.. earlier liltank was saying to do a high cycle and then a low cycle. He didn't mention coming off and you said you agreed with that. Do you advocate high then low then back to high or do you believe in an off period and if so how long off? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
Well, my second cycle is dbol and eq, so you are saying I should add test? Would this still be considered a novice cycle? If so, what do you consider an advanced cycle? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 264 |
superdave.....use a low dose test as the base for all your cycles--200mgs a week...i use proprionate when cutting and a longer acting ester when bulking. using test simply keeps a sufficient amount of the hormone available as the dbol and eq are gonna all but shut down endogenous test production....test is best bro an advanced cycle would be 750-1000+ mg of testo a week as a base. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 676 |
I want the gains from dbol/eq to be low water... still add test? I could probably add prop at moderate dose? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 123 |
Started with test. I used Deca and all but I think test is always king!!!!!! It should at least be the backbone of a cycle!!!!!!! | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3787 |
I'm tired and i don't feel like writing a lot right now, but test is always the best. It's what's making you grow right now, as well it's effects and side effects are easily predictable, why on earth would you start out with anything else??? Go read the old thread | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 409 |
absolutley test is best,and i also believe in starting big and hitting the receptors hard. 750mg is a good starting dose assuming youve trained for 5-6 years and just cant go no more naturally.age is a factor as well i still think 18year olds on juice is dumb..
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 553 |
I was looking all over for that... You keepin' it in a drawer E2? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 79 |
Ulter,
For the high low theory for 12 weeks and example is I usually do a very high dosage of anabolics and a sufficient amount of androgens. Example of a high cycle for me would be the following for a period of 12-16 weeks long. I did this cycle and made very good gains. But remember when taking into account how sensitive your body is to drugs each person is different so what cycle I may do may be to strong/weak for your body. Test Propionate 2 cc ED for 14 days After the dianabol is stopped For the last 8 weeks of the cycle I began taking 40 mg of nilevar per day for the remainder of the cycle. Entering the 16th week and last week of the heavy cycle I begin taking 1 cc of sustanon 250 every 10 days I do this for a period of 100 days ( 3 months) The anabolic/androgenic is high enough in the sustanon for you to keep the gains made on the heavy cycle As far as staying on year long I think that there is no problem with it as long as you know what you�re doing. You can�t take anadrol year round and not expect to fuck your body up. When I have to �come� off I have used this method and keep a very significant amount of the gains I made while on the juice. The off period is 30-50 days during this time I took the following compounds. Clenbuterol Clenbuterol was taken on a 5 day on 2 day off period, the amount of intake was 200mcg per day. The nolvadex was taken at 10 mg per day. Hope this helps email me if you need to | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 946 |
Take what you can get your mitts on. If you know it is legit, and you know the risks...why wouldn't you? ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 553 |
Well actually I just finished an email to you but you just answered it here. So I'll put it back in my pocket. Thanks for your answer liltank. [This message has been edited by ulter (edited August 27, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1404 |
this is some kinda sick joke right??..d-bol safer then testo,a nd testo not for newbies, test is the most natural steroid out there, it is what cause growth during puberty, so it effect are somewhat know byt he user...anyways, I would say testo only is good for newbies.. big-guy | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 84 |
Just talkin about my ltd experience. I have done one cycle of deca only. I went for the "safe" alternative 400mg a week for 8 weeks. I gained 10lbs. I kept most of the gains dropped about three lbs a month later, but this obviously wasn't what I had hoped for. My next cycle is definately going to have test in it. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 216 |
test is test... It's the most powerful hormone... Can't ignore that for your cycle. john | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1475 |
Test is King Why you might ask, well lets just see. 1. testosterone is the anabolic that evolution has produced and is the most predictable as you have been using it all your life. 2. the side effects of test can be easily controlled or avoided completely by using anti-estrogens or aromatase inhibitors like arimidex or teslac- to combat estrogenic side effects- and topical anti-androgens like nizoral and others to combat androgenic side effects like hair growth/loss and to control acne. propecia may be of some use as well. 3. test will get you results. No androgen can assure this, however Test is effective for most individuals which is a claim that no other androgen can make.(in my opinion and from my observations) Yes for some these synthetic androgens are amazing. It is also true that most of these synthetics will give you, at the least, some results but their consistancy cannot touch test's anabolic record. 4. test comes in a wide variety of esters to meet your individual cycle needs. 5. test is typically cheaper- though there are exceptions. 6. test is not 17aa- so it is NOT hepatoxic. 7. Testosterone got you where you are and will help to take you where you want to go. TEST is KING Peace ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 324 |
Superdave, you have nothing to apologize for. All of us used what ever we could get for our first cycle because we were not sophisticated in the game yet(mine was dbol cause it was all that was available). You are allowed to mature and develop different opinions. And ya know, a first timer will grow on almost anything. But I do believe test is the basic building block for all hormonal supplementation plans. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
Macro!!!!! Macro!!!!! Macro!!!!! Ahhhhh....The Great debate lured you from the darkness.....Good to see you on the board Bro!!!! Khule....!!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 486 |
Wow! Good to see you back Mac. Where've you been? Anyway, Mac and E2 have once again come out in favor of testo. Come on 2Thick, give us the other side...hehehe. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 395 |
Test is NOT for beginners. Most of them do not know how to train and eat right to start with and will fuck up there first cycle.. Using this kind of drugs for your first cycle will hinder gains later on.. Dbol is the best as to start with.. it will give tremendous gains and you have the test for your next cycle... flame on ! Dutch ------------------ | ||
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Novice
Posts: 5 |
Bump good stuff,keep it coming. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 163 |
Although I didn't took test on my first cycle (it was d-bol+deca), I think that you should use it from the start. Test is the steroid that is closest to your natural one. I think that D-bol is much more detrimental for the beginner than the test is. Just my opinion though. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
Dutch, I won't even dignify dbol only for a beginner with an answer......Nope!!! ------------------ Ranger | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 553 |
MACRO??? MACRO???? THE GREAT MACRO IS BACK!!!!! I had to look twice I've only seen a few of his posts since April and the others I've read were in the archives. Sure would be great to have all that knowledge back on this board. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 395 |
heh heh... gotcha Ranger  (and ready to defend my answer..) Dutch ------------------ [This message has been edited by Dutch (edited August 28, 2000).] | ||
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Novice
Posts: 6 |
My 1. cycle was d-boll, 2.Deca+d-boll and for the 3.cycle I added sustanon now that was what I call gains!!
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 555 |
Good to see you on the board Macro. I miss seeing your post. Even the long ones.hehe |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted August 27, 2000 07:15 PM
JIM LAYHOE