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 EVERYONE READ.......I was MAde By the Doctor...And here are the RESULTS....Need Help
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| Author | Topic: EVERYONE READ.......I was MAde By the Doctor...And here are the RESULTS....Need Help | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 275 |
Today the Doctor called me in to go over the results of my blood test. When we sat down he said " How long have you been using AS?" I thought shit he knows...so I tried to play it off on Andro spray and pills over the counter...He than said " Come-on I won't write it in your file, I'll write it up as bloodwork follow up for Colesterol" By the Way my Cholesterol is 280. I know I just got off my first bulking phase and have been eating everything in site. Anyway my Testosterone Level was 190L which is low he said....this is my first blood test so I didnt know what to expect. I don't know how to properly read the two pages I have in front of me there are a bunch of WBC,RBC,MCV,MPV and all types of stuff. My question is Where did I go wrong I took T200/Dbol for 8 weeks T at 300mg/week and 5 Dbol a day. After week 4 I took Clomid EOD for 3 weeks after my cycle. Why did my readout still come up low? For those who don't know the range for a males test is from 241-827..and again mine was 190L....yet everything in my Complete Meabolic Panel was within range. 2nd Because I am 6'3" and about 275 should I go to a hard core cutting cycle? If so what do you reccomend? My doctor has put me on a Low fat/ Low Colesterol Diet and I need to get New bloodwork in 3 months....what advice can i get from the brotherhood. Any and all imput would be appreciated. I would also like to keep this at the top for others who need bloodwork done. Thanks for listening, Chef ------------------     | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 917 |
May be from the crash, did you take clomid? ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 917 |
ok so you did. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 210 |
Your doctor should have told you that you have hypogonadism. My doctor diagnosed me with the same thing this past January. He should have put you on 200mg of testosterone cypionate every two weeks, and the androderm patch every day. Email me for specifics. My last test showed my testosterone level at 288, up from 211 in January. If he treats you for it correctly, it may not be permanent. You should try clomid and HCG first. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
I'll e-mail you...would like to hear more about that. Chef ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 754 |
Either your T levels are naturally that low, or it's just taking a while for them to get back to normal. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 210 |
Nope, it's caused by using anabolic steroids. I was off for almost a year before I was tested due to a shoulder injury. My last cycle before the injury I had the bright idea of using Tribestan instead of clomid or HCG and my test levels never went back to normal. A word to the wise, follow up every single cycle with clomid and HCG, otherwise you will have to endure testosterone replacement therapy for the rest of your life. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 261 |
Musclegear: How necessary is the HCG? Looking at a lot of the proposed cycles on the board, and the critiques the vets have for them, it doesn't look like many guys use HCG. Bjaarki ------------------ BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 754 |
It's quite unusual for exogenous administration of AAS to permanently downgrade the hypothalmic/pituitary/gonadal axis. Natural production of testosterone has resumed in people who have taken fairly large doses of gear, and, in many instances, these are people who did not use clomid and/or HCG. Sometimes it takes several months to return to normal, but usually a few weeks of clomid will do the trick. Do you know what your serum T levels were before you went on roids? It's difficult to tell what's going on without a baseline, but my guess is they'll creep back up in a few weeks. Get another test in a month or so and see what happens. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 7 |
Chef, Not a flame, just a comment regarding the following:
quote: This is not accurate for ALL tests and ALL individuals. I'm sure this is accurate information based on your specific situation as it was discussed by you and your phys. But, ranges (actually Reference Ranges) and what would deemed to be "normal" are dependant upon various factors (age, lab testing procedure, etc.) For example, I have results in front of me right now indicating a "normal T" Ref Range of [262-1593] and I have seen/discussed other ranges with medical pros as well. For what it's worth to the bros out there (I know many of you are aware of this) from a BB perspective the key is NOT Total T, it is "free" (or unbound) Test that is important.
quote: By any measure I have ever seen this would be considered low for Total T and I would assume is the result of some supression from AS in your case. Did you have a baseline blood test prior to starting AS to compare with? Later, | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 357 |
How did you guys know you had a problem? ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 485 |
1911, He is talking about Free at 190. Test Procedure #30741 This number should be at 240 for an average 25 year old. If his doc spots a 190 his physique will tell him the rest of the story. | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1575 |
Well if I read that right up there you said clomid eod for 3 weeks after, I would have used it ED for three weeks after and at 100mg per day. I don't know how much that would help but it has to make a difference 50mg eod while on and then 100mg ed for two to three weeks after YOUR OFF (this isnt the day after a sus250 shot as that is still active as an exogenous (sp) test in your body suppresing your natrual test still). I know you did t200. I don't need a chart to tell me when my Test is low, its hard to tell sometimes after my cycle whether it is low relatively speaking (because my body was used to such high levels throughout the cycle) or if it is actually lower than when I started. I never feel completely normalized until week 6 or 8 after I am off. Slopain | ||
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Novice
Posts: 7 |
Ulter,
quote: Thanks for the clarification bro. Later, | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
My brothers...thanks for all the words...let me get to some of the questions posted after my initial post... I did not get a blood test prior to taking AS, which I recommend all Newbies due to be safe. I took Clomid at 100mg EOD at the end I used my Lab results as a template when I said the comments about Test levals, because on my Lab results which were done by Quest Diagnostics in Illinois..it says range of 241-827 normal. So sorry about thinking that was the norm for everyone..I didnt know. My next question is Now that I am on a Fat and Cholesterol Diet what type of cutting cycle should I be on. I go back for tests in 3 months. Any ones help is appreciated. Thanks Chef ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 145 |
Yes, as someone else said.... I don't know how big of a difference it would have been but if I was telling someone to take clomid I would say 100mg/day for one week, then 50mg/day for two weeks. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
Let me add 1 question for the vets. Can you take too much Clomid? Because of my body should I maybe double my intake of Clomid? Chef ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 680 |
I have never heard of a weight to dose ratio with respect to the administration of hormones. Use the clomid as directed by your common sense and the few people on this board intelligent enough to give advice. The Truth's post was dead on! ------------------  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
I was thinking of 150 mg of Clomid for 2 weeks. Any Vets with any thoughts.....Also someone follow up with a reccomended next cycle....considering my situation. Thanks everyone ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 347 |
bump for Chef. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 312 |
No more 5000 calories, Chef? Just sounds like the crash to me - some take longer to normalize than others. Your a big guy, maybe higher doses are required - someone must know about this out there. ulter has a point there, too. all endocrinologists prescribe HCG during hormone replacement therapy - just an observation, not looking to argue the issue. | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 29 |
I bet the *average* T level is in the low end of the normal range. Everybody I know who has had it tested is like under 300. Who the hell is 1000 or whatever?! I don't remember mine exactly, but it was on the low end of what the doc said was a normal range. Even though I had been off AS for a couple of months, he said to give it another few months (!) to get back up , and if it still low then, he will prescribe something. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
According to the doc it looks like I'll be on a restricted 2400 calories a day diet....great time for a cutting cycle  What type of Cutting cycle would be recommended from the Brotherhood? You guys really care Love ya, ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 168 |
...a cutting cycle...would be either OTC like a thermogenic + a natural thyroid booster (example=a good, potent ECA stack or the like, like Xenadrine, etc., and some guggelsterones or Pro-lab's Thyrolean) or some good gear (example=clen + t3, maybe some winstrol, and MAYBE small doses of a test to keep that at least from DROPPING LOWER from the restricted calories) AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, cardio, cardio, cardio. At least an hour a day, broken up into 2 sessions should really do the trick. Try new things...running, biking, rollerblading, swimming, etc., so you don't get bored with it. And add some intensity techniques to your weight workouts, like supersets, dropsets, giant sets...GOOD LUCK! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
Thanks bro......do you think an 8-10 week cycle would be enough...I want to do a more restricted bulking cycle but still afraid that my test levals will suffer...lets keep the suggestions coming.... Thanks ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
Bump for advice from some of the Mods!!!!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1025 |
Chef, You can't overdose on the clomid, but I don't think increasing the dose would help. Try HCG. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 343 |
HCG is crap. Ok, its "clinically proven" to pop your test levels back up, but it doesnt help the HPT, and in many cases it actually sets you a step back. Plus, a lot of people get gyno from HCG, where as they may have not gotten it from the test they took. From the standpoint of looking at the male body its a bad idea. Some of the more knowledgable doctors in the field of endocrinology are coming to see that. Its akin to folly to inject the equivilent of a female hormone into a man to cause a rise in male hormones as a side effect. Most fertility specialists (I was working with one recently. One of the tops in the country) use clomid for men with low testosterone who are trying to concieve, and have moved away from HCG. There is also a rebound effect possible with clomid, but its milder. Either way, its self defeating to boost your natural test level up with a drug when in a short time it will crash again anyway because you havent addressed the TRUE PROBLEM... the HPTA. Clomid id the answer, but not throughout the whole cycle. Testicular atrophy is not an accurate marker in the HPT condition. The only thing you can do is understand how it works and go from there. I worked with an endocrinologist on my last cycle, and followed my recovery. My test levels were restored within a month after the cycle (clomid post cycle), but my HPTA was showing signs of being supressed for almost 7 months! I asked about HCG, and was told that it will only give a temporary boost, but in the end it is something that must adjust itself. Just something to think about... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 261 |
Monster: Damn, bro! There are about 4 million different opinions flying around this board about HCG. Two of the threads I've followed the last day or so talked about it as a MUST, yet I've noticed that HCG is not mentioned in most of the cycles that get posted and critiqued here. You seem to know your shit, bro. Lay it out for us about HCG. Post to this thread, or start your own, but do us the favor, man! Make sure I see it. Bjaarki ------------------ BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 296 |
My experiences... As a human guinea pig I can tell you that clomid is over-rated. It does work, and it is a must do post cycle, but it takes time to get your natural test levels back up. It has been almost 3 months since I was on test and finally I feel back to normal. Actually have some sex drive, and I am getting strong in the gym again naturally. I even did the clomid for 3+ weeks after but I still crashed a little. I think nobody's test levels are normal for quite sometime even after the clomid. Clomid to me is like a supplement to get the LH going and kick-start your nuts. But the rest is up to your body. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 485 |
Come on Monster, "HCG causes gyno is a lot of people" ??? Which peer reviewed article did you read that. You would have to be on HCG for years. Not the 2 weeks that is recommended to get gyno and even that would be very rare. "Some of the more knowledgeable Doctors are coming to see that" Name one. BTW since I see that statement prefacing so many remarks on this board exactly who decides who is knowledgeable in the field of medicine? Is there some kind of peer review? lol NO FLAME! Take the Clomid if your serum estradiol level is unusually high at the end of your cycle. Otherwise you don't need it.. your test level will come back in 8-10 weeks without it. E-mail me. I�ll give you MY doctor�s number and he can tell you all about it. He�s been practicing HT for 30 years. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
Thanks for all your imput guys....this is one of the many reasons this board kicks asssss. George kicks ass too!
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Novice
Posts: 1 |
HCG gave me btich tit after a 2-3 week cycle. I had it cut out, now I have dents. Go with the clomid, bro. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 485 |
Signed up AND made your 1st post just now huh? Sure it did. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
My Docter said to check with him in 2 weeks...because he is checking on a treatment in which they treat the chest area that is puffy with low radiation..that he say's " It will take the puffiness, for good with NO chance of reaccurance." Wow....it would be nice
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 485 |
Gyno's genetic, did he say your prone? Did he give you a serum estradiol test? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
No serum test unless thats in the bloodwork? But my father and grandfather are both with a slight case of gyno..more because of there weight...very over weight. Chef ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 485 |
That's the problem. Quest won't check for your female level unless they are told to. They will see you're a male and check your male level. My male is over 100 but my female is 15. It makes a big difference. Now that your at ease with your doc you might want to ask him. Or not. Did you ever get my e-mail last week? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 147 |
I THINK GYNO IS A POSSIBLITLY WITH HCG.... I STARTED TO EXPERIENCE SOME PUFFINESS AND TENDERNESS WHILE TAKING IT.... I MAY BE THE RARE FEW THAT REACT TO IT? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
I sure did bro..thanks Too bad I need to change my cycle now.  But hey I think I'm going to do a cutting cycle and than bulk up again...this time a bit smarter
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 54 |
Bump for the mods | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
I still havent heard from any Mods yet Chef ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 573 |
Take 1000mg of niacin next time you go on cycle. That will keep cholesterol in better standing. As for the teat levels, read my statement on the HCG thread. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 275 |
1000mg all at the same time? What will that do exactly? ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1228 |
drop me an email with your questions...could answer for you.. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 269 |
i remember duchaine writing that you should always take nolvadex when you take hcg because it also elevates estrogen levels. he also said not to take it for more than two weeks or you might do some permanent damage. that's the way i've always done it. i just take the nolva at the end of a heavy cycle along with hcg. this is the first time that i'm going to try clomid instead. everyone on this board seems to like it better so i'll give it a try. |
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posted August 24, 2000 12:36 AM
JIM LAYHOE