Author | Topic: Sustanon or Enanthate? | ||
Novice Posts: 6 |
Mi friend told me that using sust. is a waste of money, because it gives the same results as enanthate which is a lot cheaper. Is him right? Thanks for your help. | ||
Freak Posts: 1568 |
Consider your friend an idiot and get the sus250. You can take a-bombs gain 30 or you can use deca/winny and put on 15 - does that make dec/winny a waste? No because in this instance all the A-bomb gains (practically) would leave in a short time. And just about all the deca winny gains would stay. Im not saying the enathate is a shit product. But Sus250 is preferable. Slopain | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 869 |
I have to agree that Sust is the better of the two in the long run. ------------------ | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 358 |
exactly, tell your friend he's a idiot and make him pay for your gear! ------------------ | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 1075 |
Another guy with a guru for a friend. Hey bro WE ARE YOU FRIENDS WHEN IT COMES TO THIS , ACCEPT NO SUSTITUTE ------------------ | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 558 |
It's really not a cut and dry answer, bros. Sus is a good blend of four different testosterone esters, but it's still just testosterone. When you take the Sustanon weekly, you really are defeating the purpose of the mixture. It's intended use was so that a therapeutic dose of Sustanon could be administered once every three to four weeks for a steady testosterone level in the body for that length of time. The four esters break off at different time intervals making the testosterone bioavailable in the body for that purpose. Now, testosterone enanthate is a longer ester, so one won't see results from the testosterone as quickly as Sustanon, but results will happen. 500 mg of Enanthate will contribute to the body nearly an equal amount of testosterone as Sustanon, especially when taken weekly, twice a week, or more often as most will do. Test is test is test. That's what matters. Cost per mg is another factor. The enanthate is MUCH cheaper. Personally, I would go with the enanthate. Way more bang for the buck. Some might argue that the enanthate is a vet med, where the Sustanon is a human grade drug. Some say that the enanthate is dirty or underdosed. But some have argued that with various Sustanons. | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 558 |
Bump. More opinions? | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 359 |
gymrat stated it perfectly, the only consideration i look at the different tests is length of action and how you have your cycle planned, personally i will just use prop. this coming bulking cycle | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 79 |
How much prop? That shit leaves a nasty sting in the injection site. I have a Bro who was limping the day after his first injection. | ||
Freak Posts: 1568 |
Whats up GymRat. I agree test is test but that doesnt mean they are all equal - as you know the time releases are different, Sus250 keeps your 'levels' for lack of a better word more even throught the entire cycle from start to end, while enethate will take a while then hit you all at once with that concentration of 500mg or whatever you take. Go here (courtesy of 300 Kleens new board)and compare test enethate with sus250 I know this isn't the Bible but just to clear things up a bit. (Take special note of ability to keep gains and sides) http://www.angelfire.com/linux/roids/AnabolixRanking.htm And I hate to quote the board again, but I like a new board and read the hell out of it when I can =) I also think it would be better for your body as the test is level througout instead of hitting hard at a more concentrated period of time. Let me know what you think. Slopain [This message has been edited by Slopain (edited August 23, 2000).] | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 53 |
Suston and omndren are the weapon of choice in the arsinale of Testosterones. Everything else is just second grade. | ||
Freak Posts: 1568 |
Sorry about all the typos up there, my fault. | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 558 |
Slopain, I respect much of what you have to say on this board, and I have taken much of what you say very seriously. You're one of the few bros on this board that really know their shit. But, I do have some problems with that quote you gave concerning Sustanon. First, it uses the word "synergetic" for the effect of the testosterone blend. I cannot see how this applies. Synergy is defined as "working together", as in different people or things working together for a better result or effect. ECA is a good example of that. Each component of the stack is good on its own, but the combination, in the right quantities produces an effect that is greater than the whole. Sustanon is made as a blend that, when the esters break off, the testosterone is made available to the body at different time intervals. Hence, the name of the drug comes from "sustain". Therefore, the esters really do not work "together", as they are used by the body at different times. If it does have a synergistic effect, it does not say how. Enanthate is known to break off from testosterone in the body after a peroid of about 10-14 days. If one injects enanthate twice or three times a week, the blood levels of testosterone will be relatively consistent, and then drop off slowly for the three weeks after the last injection. This sounds much like the mechanism behind Sustanon, right? Second, the quote you gave also gave some information about the androgenic and anabolic qualities of Sustanon. That also directly applies to the enanthate, since it's the testosterone, plain and simple, that is the cause of the androgenic and anabolic qualities. The esters play no role in that part. Once the ester is removed, it is inert. 500 mg Sustanon will have slightly more testosterone in it than enanthate. Why? This is due to the size of the esters. Enanthate is one of the longer ones, where the Sustanon has some short ones in it to make it faster acting. The shorter ones weigh less, there for the ratio of testosterone to ester is larger in Sustanon. This would be the only case where the enanthate would be slightly less effective, but I don't feel that it is significant. If you only want to inject Sustanon every three to four weeks, go for it. That's it's intended purpose. But, for the bros here that want to pack on some serious size, that ain't going to cut it. We need more testosterone, and we want it now. Therefore, we inject more testosterone, and we inject it more often. This defeats the purpose of the Sustanon blend. This is direct from the "All Testosterones are Created Equal" article right here on the Elite Fitness site: | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 558 |
Bump... I don't want to make it seem like I wasted my effort on this... | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 473 |
Gymrat, I agree. I think that the frequency of the injections is more important than what actual ester is used. I think that close to the same results could be obtained with the same total of testosterone, regardless of ester, if different injection schedules are followed. | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 930 |
Get the sust bro!! ------------------ | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 479 |
Slopain is my boy and gymrat KNOWS his shit as well. I think that gymrat makes some very valid points. But I would like to clear this up for Slopain . I think the synergy they are speaking about is not a textbook definition. Gymrat you are right in your analysis of synergy as a literary term. It would not qualify as synergy if held to a strict criteria based on academia. (much like the word irony is often misused) From a broader view however you can see that they mean more along the lines that 500mg of Sus is a little more potent than 500mg of enanthate. (I know some people think this is not true but I don't agree with them as I have used both and find sustanon to have a better bang for the buck.) Now for lack of a better term they call this synergy. This is in fact due only to the timing of release of the test and not to them doing something magical together. Other drugs operate differently with different esters as well. Durabolin has a little less mass building capabilities than deca due to the fact that it is quickly out of the system and so has less water retention. They are both nandrolone but act a little differently because of the way they are released. Parabolan is another one exhibiting this as while trenbolone acetate is a great product who wouldn't rather hold a genuine parabolan in their hands. Why? Because it works even better than the already very good trenbolone. Same drug, different ester, slightly different result. I think Sus and enanthate go along the same lines. The different esters result in a little different effect. The other part that I know Slopain was trying to make that I completely agree with is that Sus is better than enanthate when it comes to side effects. Sus aromitizes less and therefore results in less water retention and a lower risk of gyno. While not significant to some, this is very helpful for sensitive individuals like myself. In my eyes this is where Sus seperates itself from enanthate. Yeah they both work great, no doubt it, but if I can have less side effects then I believe it is hands down a better product. Other opinions are wanted here as well. | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 52 |
What about aratest and sust compared? | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 1063 |
Definitely go with the sust. ------------------ | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 580 |
GymRatSD: Very good post. I love reading them because everytime you offer some quality info. About the synergy I thought the same thing. But can't explain it like you Anyway to anyone that cares.. I have used sust and enanthate both are karachi the sust is from organon and the enanthate is schering testoviron depot I thought the sust's where super until I tried the enanthate. Atleast this kind seems better... I said SEEMS. I believe that TEST = TEST = TEST but next cycle I will leave nothing to chance and get half sust and half enant. The reason I include the sust is for the self tapering which is nice for the end of the cycle... | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 479 |
Half and Half has run through my mind at times as well. (Simply because it is more economical) Gymrat we bumped it bro, keep it alive. | ||
Cool Novice Posts: 18 |
go with a happy medium...use aratest. it is 50mg of prop and 200mg on enanthanate. sust is good but takes too long to "kick" in. therefore you need to add some orals to the first couple weeks which adds even more cost to an already pricey sustanon... | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 53 |
Personally, I have always like Enan. I feel it gives a bigger and more consistent WHAM!! But this is just my two cents. I would go with the more cost effective. | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 558 |
Thanks bros. I'd like to hear from some of the mods on this... macrophage69alpha, where are you? This one seems to be your expertise here! | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 289 |
ID GO WITH ETHNATE FOR 2 REASONS 1. SUST BLOATS THE SHIT OUT OF MY FACE AND ABDOMEN 2.SUST IS MORE EXPENSIVE FOR THE SAME TYPE OF GAINS ------------------ | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 89 |
I personally have noticed the same results from both Enan. and Sust. When the test enters your blood stream is irrelavent. It is the total *circulating* millgram amount used on a weekly basis is what matters most. This is measured by calculating the half-life of the ester(s) injected.Your best bet is to go for what is more cost effective. Enan. will produce results at a faster rate beacuse of its shorter half-life. This occurs because a larger amount of a shorter ester is injected, therfore more test will be circulating in a shorter amount of time. You may agrue that Sust. contains Propionate and that this ester is even shorter. Propionate is a faster acting test, but because of the low mg amount less will be readily available pysiologically. | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 310 |
Excellent points made by all concerned on this post. This is what I read the board for. Both are good products that work, let your budget be your guide, if the quality of manufacturing is important to you. | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 131 |
Sustanon is fine but enanthate works better for me. I agree that sust has a better taper if your injecting weekly. So - inject enanthate every 2-3 days. That overcomes the taper problem and its a lot cheaper than sust. If you want a quicker androgen burst at the begining of the cycle, add some propionate to get started. | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 554 |
i agree with gym rat like i said before read the dick and jane article it will make you look at things differently i think dan was the man!!! i would consider price being the main issue here | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 247 |
the best thing you can do is cycle you tests for example on my last cycle i did sustanon this time ill use testoviron depot (ethernate) and next time prob testex and back to sust and so on. just mix it up trick the body a bit | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 268 |
just one question. kind of sidetracked here, but.. i just looked at that anabolic ranking system and it rates equipoise with a 6 on appetite supression. what's up with that? supression? they must mean stimulation. | ||
Freak Posts: 1568 |
Thank you gamer. I was in a bit of a rush! I think that everyone here should agree that enanthate is good and sus250 is good. I have trouble with someone saying that they get *better* results out of the enanthate, and I ask them if they have done two equal cycles where all products where exactly the same for the same duration and one cycle wasn't on cleaner receptors than the other (hard to tell but just the same amount of time taken off before each cycle and making sure they aren't sayin that enanthate is better because it was your first cycle ever on virgin receptors.) Don't anyone take this as a flame, I think this is a great debate, and it reminds my of the old days - where the mods used to battle things out in an intelligent manner. My thoughts are that if you can afford it take the sus250 - if you cant enanthate is a great substitute. I am from the school that I will easily spend any amount of money on my body, as that is something you can't sell or get rid of later in life because you don't like it or dont like what the things you have put into it has done to you. Im afraid some people are not comparing apples to apples when it comes to these two tests. Its hard to take empirical evidence here as I know that many of us do not do controlled expirements with the drugs, but rather just go on cycles with other AS and if one cycle worked out better than the rest well it must be because every drug in that cycle was better, this is not entirely true. How can you be sure than all the drugs were correctly dosed or authentic even? I know thats is all we have to go on, but its just something to think about. Again (for the third time lol) I think both are good! Slopain | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 554 |
wery good point slopain | ||
Cool Novice Posts: 29 |
i've used them both and i like sustanon more because of the faster results coming from the fast acting prop. / i guess if you would use the enanthate togheter with some d-boll for the instant kick you're better off with the enanthate because it's much cheaper but here in Belgium sust. isn't that expensive, and that's the reason i don't use the enanthate oft. ------------------ | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 1025 |
Exellent posts bros. I can't give you the science behind it, but I can give you personal experience. I have used both in large amounts---up to 2grams a week. They both work for building mass, but sust gives me mass and a better look. Not that water holding look, but a more cut look. That's why I prefer sust. | ||
Freak Posts: 1568 |
Damn Saint My man 2,000mg a week. Your a beast! Slopain | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 558 |
I'm actually quite enlightened by the fact that some people, other than the faster action of short esters in the Sustanon, can actually tell the difference between the two. When it comes to water retention, androgenic vs. anabolic qualities, and "look", I cannot see where where there would be a difference. The ester should not matter. The only purpose of the ester is to delay the efficacy of the drug. It does nothing else. If someone could explain how the ester effects water retention and the anabolic qualities of the drug, I'd really like to hear it. What it comes to me is this: Testosterone Enanthate is 15% of the cost of Sustanon for me. All things considered, I'll continued to use the enanthate. | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 1074 |
If you're going to use sustanon, might as well use omnadrens since most sources sell it up to half less than sustanons. more bang for the buck ------------------ | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 1226 |
nuf has been said...it is amatter of choice and what is available...both are excellent,,and schering ethanate is the best quality...ethanate worked well for me as opposed to sos...everyone is different..eats different,,trains different...try them both at different times and make your discions.... | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 479 |
Saint that is my exact point. Less water retention is my reason but I can definitely see why someone would not want to pay the much higher price just to decrease their water retention. These are great drugs as we all know and both work great. I too will pay more for peace of mind but you can rest assured that if I wan't in the financial position I'm in then I would be all over the enanthate. This was the best post in awhile and something that used to happen here all the time. E2 and 2thick haven't had it out in awhile. All the mod work doesn't allow them as much play time as in the past. Oh yeah and Macro, your posts are hugely missed by myself and probably many others. Drop one from time to time, the new guys here have not experienced any of your explanations or debates. | ||
Freak Posts: 1568 |
Bump For Big MACRO Slopain | ||
Cool Novice Posts: 12 |
both are excellent drugs. from what I have seen, enanthate causes a little more water retention than sust, but that can also translate into greater strenght increases. The side effects of sust can be controlled a little easier. Another good thing about the mixture of 4 different test esters is that some will work better for certain people than others, therefore sust can be a little more applicable for just about anyone. I've seen people get incredible results when mixing the 2 as well. | ||
Cool Novice Posts: 41 |
Gymrat, I'm thinking esters can affect water retention indirectly because of their different release rates. The esters in Sust250 work together to provide a steady release of testosterone into circulation. Compare that to Enanthate which releases its test almost all at once. Your body would try to regulate this sudden burst in test by converting it to DHT and Estrogen. That would result in a sudden burst of estrogen which would lead to rapid water retention. Basically your body can better handle a steady concentration of test in your blood than a sudden burst. The different release rates for the esters in Sust mimimize any sudden burst of test. Since the test released by Sust is more steady ,it gets converted to DHT and estrogen at much slower rate. Therefore your less likely to notice any serious water retention. Chris | ||
Pro Bodybuilder Posts: 479 |
Gymrat I hear what your saying and agree that most probably couldn't discern a real difference between the two. This changes in the case of sensitive individuals who can notice things like this better as the sides manifest themselves to a greater degree in these people than to the average AS user. | ||
Elite Bodybuilder Posts: 1025 |
Gymrat, I know exactly what you're saying. They should have the same effect, but I assure you I can tell the difference. | ||
Amateur Bodybuilder Posts: 188 |
ethanate bro.. can't beat the price.. cyp is better too. john | ||
Cool Novice Posts: 34 |
Very interesting points by all. I have never use any test other than sustanon, but based on this argument I think that I am going to try enthanate or primotesten my next cycle. |
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