posted August 06, 2000 02:53 AM            

I'd use gear and learn how to lie on a lie detector for a shot at a Lamborghini too. It seems more likely than using EAS products.

posted August 06, 2000 07:48 AM            

over the years he has become more and more pathetic his philosophy on bodybuilding is totally bullshit...and his views on GEAR are Bullshit anyone who buys is magazine for anything other than looking how the UGLY BITHCES turn into models so they can hope they can DO that with there UGLY ASS wife or Girlfriend is a POSER.

posted August 06, 2000 08:57 AM            

i dont give a shit of what you eat or over the counter supplements you take you cant get that much quality muscle in 12 weeks..

i have been training for years and so have most of you i cant buy this!!!

posted August 06, 2000 10:56 AM            

If he was genetically gifted, he wouldn't have struggled for years like he claimed getting nowhere, then take magical EAS products and blow up.

posted August 06, 2000 10:04 PM            

And the majority of us on this board are not 300 lb "freaks" or ever will be, or want to be.

posted August 08, 2000 01:45 PM            

------------------
"The race is long... and in the end, it's only with yourself."

"The greatest risk is not taking one."

posted August 08, 2000 02:02 PM            

Bill Phillips was copying the ideas from Cybergenics. Cybergenics was the FIRST company to run physique transformation contests and hand out sports cars to the winners.

posted August 08, 2000 02:25 PM            

Absolutely, the puppies on this board don't know who Cybergenics was. Ineffective supplements but killer training programs.

posted August 09, 2000 09:00 PM         

Anyway, Anthony Ellis just started eating a whole boatload of protein and calories, and training hard, he got maybe 10lbs from loading on creatine, then he put on another 10lbs for two months, and used the last month to go from 8% to 6% bodyfat and got the after pic.

Anyway, I was one of the guys that thought Body for Life was the answer.

I started about 195lbs fatass (38" waist, fat face, 14" arms) and when I saw Anthony Ellis
I dreamed of being as "big" as him. I know now that I was already "bigger" than him, but he was so ripped, you could actually see "his" muscle.

I did heavy cardio and used Diet Fuel, and tons of Myoplex and actually got down to a 34" waist at 172lbs. This made me believe that I could become just like Jeff Seidman,
and 1.5 years and literally $1000's of $$$ later, after trying just about every supplement, I found that what I wanted was not possible naturally, and Muscle Media had pulled the biggest con on me (I don't know what to think, I actually thought of Bill as a saviour, but now I don't know what to think) I know I'm not spending on supps anymore...

posted August 10, 2000 10:01 AM         

Prohormones are steroids, any way you cut it. and ECA stacks are drugs (Caffeine is a drug, as is Ephedrine and Aspirin)

I spent tons of bills finding out the hard way that nothing works. The only thing that's advanced is the art and science of conning and scamming. Bill Phillips is just another part of the Weider line of con artists, and he won't be the last (just look at Biotest) It may be legal to sell supplements, but in my books it ain't moral...

posted August 10, 2000 11:30 PM            

Actually, as out old time subscribers will remember, Philips and EAS threatened us in 1998 with a law suit over Mass Quantities sales of HMB. I hope you will support this site by supporting Mass Quantities, and not a penny will be going to Bill Philips.

Here is the letter that we sent to the EAS's attorney when they threatened us with legal action.

Mass Quantities, inc.

21 January, 1998

Mr. Jay Malkin
Klaas, Law, O�Meara and Malkin, P.C.
1999 Broadway, Suite 2225
Denver, CO 80202

Dear Mr. Malkin,

As we discussed in our telephone call of January 20, 1998, Mass Quantities, Inc. has stopped its DOMESTIC sales of its HMB product. Although our counsel has assured us that we have not violated the HMB use patent, your threat of legal action and the associated costs brought by your client Mr. Bill Philips and his company EAS, has necessitated that we cease selling this product.

Most importantly, Mass Quantities does not agree with your client�s assertions that it is selling HMB in violation of a patent. We do agree that a USE patent is held on HMB, however, this use patent is only held for two very specific claims� one being for cholesterol reduction the other being for nitrogen retention.

Mass Quantities has done extensive research on the HMB compound. While we are suspicious of the EAS claims of cholesterol reduction and nitrogen retention, we have found undeniable research that indicates the effectiveness of HMB as a fat redistribution distribution agent � an area that is clearly not covered by the Philips/EAS USE patent. We have been in extensive contact with several of the researchers of HMB including one that is unbiased and which has pioneered many of the studies on KIC and HMB in regards to fat redeposition. This researcher and would be considered expert witnesses in a court of law and would most definitely testify that the fat redistributing properties of HMB have been understood for quite a long time and are completely separate from its cholesterol reducing and nitrogen retaining properties. We also have reviewed numerous studies including the August 1994 edition of a journal produced by the Department of Animal Science of Oklahoma State University. The study, The Effects of Beta-Hydroxy-Beta-Methyl Butyrate (HMB) on Performance and Carcass Quality of Feedlot Steers, further confirms the fat redistributing properties of HMB. We therefore were selling this compound for an entirely different and equally legitimate use.

Again, as I wrote above, the only reason we have ceased DOMESTIC HMB sales is that, as you, and Philips/EAS very well know, Mass Quantities is a small company and we cannot afford the enormous cost of defending ourselves in a court of law. We have built our business by offering the highest grade of the most exotic supplements to our customers at an outstanding value. While we do offer our customers a pledge of purity based on independent laboratory analysis and an unconditional money back guarantee, we do not spend money on expensive advertising campaigns, we do not maintain expensive call centers, and as our customers well know, our packaging is very modest. These savings allow us to offer products like HMB to the consumer for the same price and Philips/EAS with a small difference � our bottle contains an additional 50 grams of the HMB compound.

Several of the other points of your letter also merit a response.

You have claimed that you would contact our Internet Service Provider and �kick� us off the Internet. Obviously, you were hoping that we were somehow na�ve and that you could just railroad us with ridiculous threats. The Internet is a public forum and although we may disagree with you on a number of important issues, we respect your right to your opinions and we respect your right to state your views in any public forum that you might choose. We would appreciate the courtesy of the same respect that we have given you.

You have questioned the legitimacy of our company and stated that we contribute nothing to the area of sports nutrition. This demonstrates how little you actually know about our company. We have already helped fund university research on androstenedione, which will soon be published, and we are currently reviewing several other university studies for support. Furthermore, Mass Quantities was the first company to introduce the vastly superior norandrostenedione (as compared to androstenedione) to the sports industry as well as our newest product, 5-alpha-androstenediol or Pentabol. We also have in the works some of the most innovative and revolutionary ergogenic aids that will ever be developed and are working with some of the largest pharmaceutical manufacturers in the world.

We disagree with your claims that we �hideout� on the Internet, somehow trying to deceive our customers. We run our business on the Internet because it allows us to offer further value to our customers that includes 24-hour shopping and additional savings from lower order overhead. We have never and we will never deceive our customers. We are always forthright and honest and are always the first to tell our customers and the public the truth. HMB can help redistribute your bodyfat, but we would never claim like EAS�s Mr. Philips that the dietary supplement HMB, somehow feels like Deca -- the anabolic steroid nandrolone decoanate.

Lastly, you mentioned in our telephone conversation that Philips/EAS has taken it upon themselves to have our HMB and other supplements lab tested and that as they expected the results showed the HMB was impure. Before you make any false accusations, please make sure your facts are accurate on this matter. We strictly test HMB and all our products at San Rafael Chemical Services. This independent laboratory analysis proved that our product contains exactly the amount of pure HMB that is stated on our label. As to it being impure, this is obviously due to the fillers that are required in the encapsulation process. Of course we are certain that we will read more about your own lab work in the upcoming issues of the Philips/EAS publication Muscle Media. And we are equally certain that a fine publication such as this one could never be accused of stretching the truth or be accused of any errors of omission.

I sincerely hope that we can conclude these legal maneuverings at this time with our agreement to cease domestic sales of HMB. We are eager to get back to work offering new and exciting products to our customers. We would challenge you and your client to end legal battles with us and to spend productive time offering value to your customers as well.

------------------

Yours in sport,

George

George Spellwin
Research Director

Elite Fitness: Online Bodybuilding Magazine:
<A HREF="http://www.elitefitness.com
" TARGET=_blank>http://www.elitefitness.com
</A> The Most Controversial Bodybuilding Site on the Internet.
217 West 18th Street, P.O. Box 1264, New York, NY 10113-1264
George Spellwin [email protected]
Research Director Phone: 212-823-1000 Fax: 212-208-2531