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  George Spellwin's ELITE FITNESS Discussion Boards
   Anabolic Discussion Board
  For All Who Have Questions About Metformin (Glucophage)!!!

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Author Topic:   For All Who Have Questions About Metformin (Glucophage)!!!
Primo_man
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 298)
posted August 01, 2000 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Primo_man   Click Here to Email Primo_man     Edit/Delete Message
I have see a few qestions about Metformin on the board reciently, and decided to do a little searching to find some answers. I hope this helps. By the way, since I have recently aquired a source for this I will be using it soon and will post my results. Hope you enjoy!!!

Metformin: the most effective and under-appreciated life extension drug
By Ward Dean M.D.�������������������������������������������� to order Metformin

Metformin, an anti-diabetic biguanide drug, has recently been introduced in the United States for the treatment of non-insulin dependent diabetes (type II diabetes).

In addition to its promise in treating diabetes, metformin may prove to be one of the most promising anti-aging; life extending drugs available!

Metformin is chemically very similar to phenformin, an anti-diabetic drug that was discontinued in the United States by the FDA in 1976. The reason for phenformin's removal from the market was because of a number of excess deaths in diabetic patients, caused by lactic acidosis.

These deaths were invariably due to its continued use in diabetic patients who had compromised kidney or liver function. No deaths were ever reported in patients who had normal kidney and liver function.

Phenformin's removal from the market was greatly lamented by most diabetologists, one of who once told me "phenformin did everything! It lowered insulin, reduced blood cholesterol and triglycerides, stimulated immunity and even resulted in weight loss!"

He blamed the excess deaths with phenformin's use on the "stupid docs" who continued to use it in the face of abnormal liver or kidney function. Metformin is similar to phenformin in its beneficial metabolic effects, but it is much safer, in that it has even fewer propensities to cause lactic acidosis than phenformin.

One of the most universal changes with age, is a progressive loss of glucose tolerance. When this loss of glucose tolerance becomes pronounced, it is diagnosed as diabetes.

Indeed the diagnostic criteria for older people are much less strict than the criteria for younger people; otherwise, nearly every senior citizen would be diagnosed as diabetic.

In parallel (or perhaps, the cause) of this loss of glucose tolerance with age, is a progressive loss of insulin sensitivity, i.e. a loss of response to insulin by peripheral tissues.

Metformin's mechanism of action is unlike other anti-diabetic drugs, like the sulfonylureas (e.g. Glyburide, Diabinase). The sulfonylueas act by increasing the output of insulin from the pancreas, kind of like putting the pancreas on the dining room table and going over it with a rolling pin, squeezing out whatever insulin remains in the already over worked pancreas. After a period of time, this often results in pancreatic failure, transforming a type II (non-insulin dependant) diabetic into a type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetic.

Metformin, to the contrary, acts by increasing the sensitivity of peripheral tissues (like muscles) to the effects of insulin. In effect, it rejuvenates this response, restoring the effects of glucose and insulin too much younger physiological levels. Although metformin is approved only for use in type II (non insulin dependant) diabetics, I use it with a great deal of success on my type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetic patients as well.

When used with insulin dependant patients, I find that they are able to dramatically reduce their doses of insulin, and more easily maintain stable levels of blood glucose. Metformin acts in a much more physiologic manner than either the sulfonylureas, or even exogensously administered (i.e. injected) insulin itself.

Consequently, if rarely, if ever, causes hypoglycemia, which may often result from the use of insulin or the sulfonylureas.

One potential side effect in long term users of metformin, is that it may cause malabsorption of vitamin B12, consequently, I recommend that anyone taking metformin also supplement their diet liberally with vitamin B12.

Diabetes is believed by many gerontologists to be an example of accelerated or premature aging. Since nearly everyone suffers from "subclinical" diabetes (i.e. a loss of glucose tolerance with age), I recommend metformin to all my life extension patients who are over 40.

I believe metformin has a profound and truly "rejuvenating effect" on glucose and insulin metabolism. Among other benefits, this results in a reduced rate of pro-aging cross linkages in collagen. Dilman (1992) lists the following benefits of phenformin, which are shared by metformin,

(1) Lowers blood cholesterol, triglycerides and beta lipo-proteins
(2) Reduces development of atherosclerosis
(3) Reduces insulin levels
(4) Increases hypothalamo-pituitary sensitivity (which declines with age)
(5) Improves cellular immunity
(6) Reduces incidence of chemically induced cancer in rats
(7) Enhances activity of anti-cancer drugs
(8) Suppresses the growth of some tumors.

Finally phenformin (and presumably metformin) increased the maximum lifespan of experimental animals.� Consequently, in view of its record of safety and paucity of side effects, its physiological mode of action, and broad range of beneficial effects, I strongly encourage all of my patients over the age of 40 to take 500mg of metformin twice a day.

ALL INFORMATION IS EDUCATIONAL AND SHOULD NOT REPLACE THE ADVICE OF YOUR PHYSICIAN

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ajc1977
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 836)
posted August 01, 2000 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ajc1977     Edit/Delete Message
You are the fucking man...That's great info.
Keep it up.

------------------
~~~ ajc1977 ~~~
Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com

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ajc1977
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 836)
posted August 01, 2000 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ajc1977     Edit/Delete Message
Does anyone know what the optimal times to take it should be? Morning, afternoon, etc?

------------------
~~~ ajc1977 ~~~
Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com

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Primo_man
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 298)
posted August 01, 2000 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Primo_man   Click Here to Email Primo_man     Edit/Delete Message
I'll check on the dosing.

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ajc1977
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 836)
posted August 01, 2000 08:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ajc1977     Edit/Delete Message
One of our doctors on here said he took 3 per day of the 850mg version on carb load days.

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~~~ ajc1977 ~~~
Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com

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ajc1977
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 836)
posted August 01, 2000 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ajc1977     Edit/Delete Message
Fuck it...It's only like $15.00 per box. I'll get some and let you bros know how it goes.

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~~~ ajc1977 ~~~
Visit my member website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com

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supreme
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 65)
posted August 02, 2000 03:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for supreme   Click Here to Email supreme     Edit/Delete Message
I use it all the time, see my replies to previous questions-if search is fixed (the post spelled it glucaphage)

Works like vanadyl bullshit was suppossed-really good for post workout carb up and after carb depletion I. E ketgenic diets or DNP

works REALLY good with effervescent creatine for between cycle pumps!

Later!

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Alexej
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 20)
posted August 02, 2000 04:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alexej   Click Here to Email Alexej     Edit/Delete Message
I have Dianben850mg Metformin tabs. But everytime I use one, I get the feeling that my stomach is full, together with nausea this really sucks. what do you guys do? how do you take these tabs? Oh there is something else that could be interesting for you to know. If you use Metformin alone it doesn`t work. You can believe me, you have to use it together with INSULIN. I don`t use Insulin, but Glipizide, an oral insulin. some people use it with hGH or/and t3/t4 and have good results too. I think the reason why metformin doesn`t work alone is that it has the effect you mentioned, it makes the insulin(your body produses) work better, as a reaction you body does produce less insulin, so it works not. Use insulin, or an insulin booster, that`s better.

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Primo_man
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 298)
posted August 02, 2000 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Primo_man   Click Here to Email Primo_man     Edit/Delete Message
So you just take the metformin with carbs. Carbs stimulate insulin release and presto, you have metformin + insulin. You can also use it to lower blood sugar to enter ketosis more quickly, as well as for super compenstation when taking in lots of carbs. I haven't done it yet, but am assuming that Metformin would also help to keep fat gain to a minimum on a bulking cycle since it increases insulin sensitivity in muscle cells. Am I correct, has anybody had any experience with this??? Help me out bros!!!

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cm3504jm
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 156)
posted August 02, 2000 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cm3504jm   Click Here to Email cm3504jm     Edit/Delete Message
I'm on Glucophage right now for my NID diabetes. I take 500 mg every am and every pm. been taking them for about 3 months.

My observations:

I don't know why, but my BS levels increased slightly after taking for 3 months. Nothing dramatic ( about 30mg per), but it is a bitch to get them down to normal (90-100mg)
I do it, but it takes a lot of cardio and watching "dry" carbs. God I love bread!

Another benefit for me personally is that no matter when I take my BS reading, it varies minimally- There is no spike and it allows me to feel pretty much the same all day long.
I feel it has also help me lose body fat while protecting LBM. I have gained about 18 lbs on my cycle while becoming more vascular and having my clothes hang looser.

This is a great drug. The only thing is NO BOOZE whatsoever. I think anyone cycling should never do booze anyway due to the stress it places on your liver.

Hope this info helps.

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"If you stand by the river long enough, you will watch the bodies of your enemies float by"

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Primo_man
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 298)
posted August 02, 2000 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Primo_man   Click Here to Email Primo_man     Edit/Delete Message
The dosing scedule I have seen for Metformin is two 850mg tabs a day, on in the am and one in the pm. I was thinking though, for a nondiabetic person, wouldn't it be better to take them later in the day when your natural insulin sensitivity is the lowest?? Opnions??

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supreme
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 65)
posted August 02, 2000 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for supreme   Click Here to Email supreme     Edit/Delete Message
I use the Metforal brand - 500mg tabs- 3-6/day depending on the amount of carbs I'm taking in.

Definately take it with carbs for insulin or without for ketosis. I WOULD NOT inject insulin while using metformin; insulin lowers blood glucose & so does Metformin, you run the risk of a hypoglycemic shock.

Not sure about oral insulin stimulators and metformin. Be careful with oral insulin stimulators they can whack your beta cells good and possibly lead to type I diabetes I. E. you shut down your own insulin production for good? just theoretical, don't know of any documented cases.

Later!

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supreme
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 65)
posted August 04, 2000 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for supreme   Click Here to Email supreme     Edit/Delete Message
just wondering, anybody try an of the oral insulin stimulators, I.E. Tolinase, Orinase, Glyburide, Glipizide etc.

Thinking about using between cycles without metformin

any suggestions

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supreme
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 65)
posted August 04, 2000 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for supreme   Click Here to Email supreme     Edit/Delete Message
Sending this back up to make it easier for you to find JUICESEEKER

Later!

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Primo_man
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 298)
posted August 05, 2000 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Primo_man   Click Here to Email Primo_man     Edit/Delete Message
Any other bro's have experience with this??

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whodaman
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 228)
posted August 05, 2000 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for whodaman   Click Here to Email whodaman     Edit/Delete Message
just curious guys...Glucophage is not a scheduled drug...so do you guys think customs would detain it if they opened the package?

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Primo_man
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 298)
posted August 06, 2000 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Primo_man   Click Here to Email Primo_man     Edit/Delete Message
No, they won't. It's in the same class as clomid and nolvadex. It'll come right through!!!!

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