posted August 01, 2000 02:32 PM            

This week I am eating 4000 cals...

Check the bodyfat and see what it says. I then adjust my calories on a weekly basis depending on what I want...

This cycle I started at 9% and decided that in 6 weeks I would let it creep up to 12%.

posted August 01, 2000 02:39 PM            

I will have to remember that. Good rule of thumb.

So if a guy weighs 160lbs and on his first cycle he should be eating 6000 cals?

What about me? By my bodyfat test I know that the number of cals I can eat to maintain bodyfat is 3500cals... I eat about 4000cals so I know that my fat mass will increase about 1lbs a week.

1lbs of fat a week is acceptable but I wouldn't want to eat 6000cals and gain 5lbs of fat a week....granted my metabolism would speed up and I wouldn't add that much but still be adding a shitload of fat...

What do you think?

posted August 01, 2000 03:52 PM            

I wouldn't say 12 x bodyweight. It's hard to tell.

It would prefer something that is based more on lean body mass rather than weight.

If someone is 300lbs but 30% fat he only has 210lbs... and would require a lot less calories than someone who is 300lbs with 5% fat who has 285lbs of lean body mass...

If you go by weight start with 16 x bodyweight for maintain and work from there...

posted August 01, 2000 04:10 PM         

anyway.

i just found this article. what do you think of this..

NUTRITION MADE SIMPLE

By Trevor L. Smith

Pizza, chocolate, cheeseburgers, french-fries, kentucky fried chicken, chinese food,
ice-cream and soda. No, no, this is not the food list for my next holiday party. This is,
in fact, what I have come to learn is the mainstay of most succesful and huge pro�s
diets in the off-season.

Clenbuterol, lasix, cytomel, E.C.A., DNP. These are,in fact, the tools a lot of Pro�s use
to insure that what they eat in the off-season doesn�t result in spare tires, tits and a gut.

I apologize if I shattered anyone�s misconception about what the Pro�s eat. The fact is,
the metabolism of the average high level amateur or pro is kicking at a higher level than
your average Ed. Because of this, they can get away with eating whatever the fuck
they want pretty much all year long�with the exception being contest prep time.

Personally I feel that, unless you are holding quite a bit of bodyfat, it is fool hardy to
eat clean all the time. You need look no further than all the big-boys in the sport to find
out if this theory holds any water (and fat too!)

You look at someone like Shawn Ray. Great bodybuilder no doubt, but great for circa
1987 where his physique seems to have been stuck in the past 12 years. "Eating Clean"
has resulted in a number of pro�s who�s physiques have remained stagnent and
unchanged.

I remember a conversation I had with Ian about the difference between the
non-american bodybuilders and their american counterparts. He said the one thing he
could never understand about the american bodybuilders was their delusion that they
had to eat chicken breasts and baked potatoes 24/7 365 days a year. Aside from
making dieting even harder than it already is come contest time, it tends to keep the
metabolism stuck in neutral. Shocking the system every now and again always keeps
the metabolic rate high and in doing this allows more muscle mass to be built, which the
last time I checked was the reason bodybuilding became a sport in the first place!

How many pro�s started their careers eating chicken breasts broccoli and potatos, only
to make zero progress until they started eating everything and anything in site! You
don�t pack on size eating like a gymnast.

I feel that the smart move to make for an off-season bodybuilder looking to acquire
new size is to make sure they get in 450-500 grams of protein per day and then eat
whatever the hell they want within reason. I�m not suggesting a diet of twinkies and ice
cream, but if you desire a little snack after you get in all your nutritional needs�go for
it. If controlling fat is a concern, you can always cut back on the carbs.

Following this rule has resulted in more freaks than you can imagine. Why is it that
someone like Lee Priest carries 20lbs more tissue than Shawn Ray and is a good 2
inches shorter? It�s in the eating I guarantee it! Both use steroids, and in fact, Shawn
has used them for a longer time period as he is both older and has been around longer.
For those who think that the difference lies in the amounts I say simply that you would
be surprised how far some pro�s get on training and eating like a fucking animal. People
like to chalk steroids and gear use up as the deciding factor on why they don�t look like
the Pro�s when the reality of the situation is that there are multiple factors at play. But
it�s always easier to point the finger and say "he�s a total juice monster and uses a gram
of test every day��that�s why he�s a pro and I�m only 215lbs" "I�m not willing to do
that to my body!" Yet these same people take offense when they hear the whispers and
assinine comments from the general public who think "I could look like that guy, all I
have to do is gobble up lots of steroids everyday".

posted August 01, 2000 04:26 PM         

Blaze

posted August 03, 2000 12:00 PM            

My opinion on that article...

Well for extreme mass, extreme eating is the way to go. It is definitely harder to put on muscle than it is to lose fat.

I used to be a big fan of getting huge offseason. Know I am blocking my bodyfat at a max of 12% while on a cycle. When off the cycle I will go back down to 8% in a 3 month period.

What I realised was that it was hard to lose the fat when you want to get very lean. There probably isn't any benefit to going higher than 12% anyway. With high bodyfat you become somewhat insulin resistant. Your body works better when it is somewhat lean.

If you are going to take Clenbuterol, lasix, cytomel, E.C.A., DNP. Then by all means get as fat as you can in the offseason but if you are moderate with the drugs you need to be more moderate with the food as well...

If you are taking like 1000mg of test plus other drugs then these calories are necessary but for my 750mg of sust only. Then the 3700-4300 is fine...

posted August 03, 2000 07:44 PM            

I can barely choke down 4000 calories a day and I am by no means a small person.

What would 6000 calories a day look like assuming 400gms of protein:

400gms of protein=1600cals

100gms of fat=900 cals

875gms of carbs=3500 cals

Now lets say you eat red meat that is approximately 6 gms of protein per ounce. Let's assume that half of your counted protein comes from this source; that is 33.33 ounces of meat or a little over two pounds. The other 200gms of protein comes from whey. At some of the better brands that is 22gms of protein per serving (in water) which then is just slight more than 10 servings. Now for the fat assume it comes from flax seed oil, that is something like 6 or 7 tablespoons of the stuff.

And the real hard one: The carbohydrates (quality) the carbs come from pasta or potatoes. I don't know the gms per ounce of these two foods, but you have to get to 875 gms, which is going to be alot of potatoes or pasta.

Of course if you use milk the protein content goes up and the number of servings of protein go down.

The most I was getting was around 5000cal a day and all I could do was lounge like a beached whale except when lifting. All I was doing was eating 24/7.

Now I am not saying it can't be done or won't work, but 6000 calories a day is a little nuts, just like the 28,000 cals that whats his name (the guy with 26 inch arms) says he eats a day, bullshit.

I have found that I put on the weight nicely at between 3000-4500cals a day. And strip it quite nicely at 1000-1500 a day.

chesty

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SEMPER FI
Chestys Homeworld

posted August 03, 2000 09:17 PM            

You diet on 1000-1500cals! Holy Shit!

You must be eating 100% protein!

posted August 04, 2000 03:14 AM            

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IN IRON WE TRUST.

THE WEAK AND THE UGLY WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE.

posted August 04, 2000 01:00 PM            

I ate chicken, peas, tuna, salad now and then, used flaxseed oil (mostly olive oil though), and just water for liquids. I had plenty of protein shakes as well.

When you cut the carbs out you need to replace them with higher protein and added fat. Yes, I said added fat. Not alot though, but enough to give you energy and trick your body into burning its own fat stores.

I would make sure that I had nothing to eat 2 hours before gym and nothing for at least 20 minutes afterwards. For carbs the most I would get would be 50gms a day, 25 or so from oatmeal/water and 25gms from a carbofuel drink 20 minutes after workout.

The idea with not eating during the above time periods is to make your body burn its fat stores for energy.

Here is a shot of me Dec 99 and then Apr 2000. I had dieted for five weeks and then went off diet (another story) anyway, the Apr pic is 3 weeks approximately after stopping diet and cycle). Imagine what I could have done given a full twelve weeks!

I weighed 215, and around 5%-6% bf. Right now I weigh 242.
http://www.seriphos.net/images/014_11.JPG http://www.seriphos.net/images/UPDATES052000/steve5.jpg

The total weight difference between the two is 15 pounds I was 230 in Dec.

chesty

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SEMPER FI
Chestys Homeworld

posted August 04, 2000 01:49 PM            

chesty

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SEMPER FI
Chestys Homeworld

posted August 04, 2000 02:08 PM            

to all the people that are worried about putting on fat, guess what, thats what the cutting up phase is for!! if it were that easy to put on lean body mass, then there wouldn't be such a thing as cutting up. we'd look pretty damn cut all year round...

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"The race is long... and in the end, it's only with yourself."

"The greatest risk is not taking one."

posted August 04, 2000 03:38 PM            

I disagree with putting on excessive amount of weight offseason if all you do is end up at or slightly above your contest weight. That is not healthy.

That is why people like Lee LeBrada, never went 10-20lbs over contest weight. Shawn Ray has definitely gone way over his competition weight. Look at Lee Priest, he weighs over 300lbs off season and around 225 on season. That is a 75 pound drop in weight, that can't be healthy year after year.

By the same token you can't be ripped year 'round without doing some damage either.