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SMITH MACHINE RUINS YOUR BODY

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Author	Topic: SMITH MACHINE RUINS YOUR BODY
MONSTROSITY Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 405)	posted July 30, 2000 10:26 AM I am not alone on this statement. The world's most renowned stregth coaches(C Poliquin, Lou Simmons, and many other greats) obstain from using the worthless device. The only thing I have seen gained from it's use is injuries(do you call these gains?) loss of agility/balance along with the most important factor; the ego factor. How many times have you seen people put their feet way out in front of them and and squat 405+ on smith machine. I begged one of these same guys to try a 225 free weight box squat slightly below paralell. You can imagine the result, he lowered quickly his back folded and he screamed for help. After we picked him up of off the floor he replied: "I just don't understand that's only half the weight I use on Smith machine." One may ask why did this fail so bad on free squat. The answer is easy: 1. He had no stabilizer strength, as his mainstay was machines. Machines often provide ZERO carryover in functional strength. 2. His muscles had never been worked in a functional plane where balance was required. Why did this guy use Smith machine; 1. Wanted to handle bigger weights, hoping to impress those who are clueless. 2. Beleived that what he was doing was much safer than the free squat. WRONG. I have seen many injuries as the rsult of the Smith's use. It is simple to understand why these injuries come about: While using the Smith the muscles around the joints( stabilizers ) are not challenged what so ever. There is no need to balance the weight on Smith machine. So it is the prime movers that get worked an dthe stabilizers that do not. So, ultimately you have some very strong and impressive prime movers and terrible stabilizers. Anyone with a brain will realize how hazardous this situation is, especially if your a competitive athlete. The smith also causes the mind/body to sleep walk though the movements, yielding ZERO functional strength. The smith also neglects to train the entire posterior chain(Low back, glutes, hams). Take a look at loyal Smith user, you will find that his back strength is a joke. If any of you guys are serious atheletes looking for more speed, strength you better learn the movements that train the whole posterior chain in unison. Leave the machine alone for a while and watch your speed/balance/agility/strength and vertical jump go through the roof. My favorite exercises for the posterior chain are: Glute/Ham raise Reverse Hyper Extensions (To do these you lie on your stomach, very hard to explain) High pulls (simlar to snatch and also like an upright row) Box Squats (below parallel) The most effective exercise we have found is the GOOD MORNING. There are many variations (seated, standing, arched back, rounded back, close stance, wide stance, off from pins, hanging bar in chains) Well there is my own opinion on the Smith. I am somewhat influenced by the Olympic level strength coaches that I have consulted with, but it has alos been my own finding that the Smith is garbage. IP: Logged
spid Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 11)	posted July 30, 2000 10:43 AM Though I am with you on your points, all valid. As I age and no longer free squat due to back, and a few other issues(I know, then I should quit squatting- ain't gonna happen) This smith allows respectable weight for stimulation and back supportand I can position my feet anywhere. Last issue- I have a gym in my home- I train alone- AND YES many years I have been in some dumbass positions due to EGO and no partner so the smith is my only option and never lets me down. Those are my only 2 points. SPID IP: Logged
Your_Moms_Kneepads Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 232)	posted July 30, 2000 10:48 AM I agree with your post. I think the Smith machine has some valid uses ( of which I will discuss 1) but for the most part should be off limits. Exercises I think are BETTER on a SMITH MACHINE: 1) Reverse grip bench press: I know that you and most (including me) are against presses on the machine but there is good reason. Doing reverse grips in general isn't the easiest/safest/or most practical exercise going. What I love about doing reverse grips on here is that it allows you to really concentrate on pushing the bar in a controlled arc that allows an INCREDIBLE load on the triceps (especially with a firm lock out). I always had trouble with traditonal close grip benches and got zero benefit out of them. This exercise allowed me to pack on triceps mass and remain injury free. I wholeheartedly agree that regular bench presses,squats,ect SHOULDN'T be done here.You may disagree with the reverse grips done on the SMITH MACHINE exclusively but thry trial and errror I know that its best for me ------------------ Your_Moms_Kneepads IP: Logged
MONSTROSITY Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 405)	posted July 30, 2000 11:03 AM Spid, less than perfect form on the free sq can quickly lead to an injury. I wouldn't throw towel in yet on free sq. See if you can't get a local unvirseity strength coach to evaluate your form. I still firmly beleive that a free sq done with sub par weights is far superior to a smith sq done with huge poundages. I have tried the the rev grip on the Smith, and I would agree that there is some use. I would only use it in small cycles though. It can be pretty tough on the shoulders, as the body must adapt to working in a straight plane which is unatural in many cases. IP: Logged
MrMuscle Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1460)	posted July 30, 2000 11:10 AM Greg Kovacs seems to like em ------------------ "Pain, is only weakness leaving your body" "...damn you for not giving my TEST" - Metallica "After this show i'll be fat and happy again.....If i make it to the show...." - Lee Priest IP: Logged
Snake Eyes Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 52)	posted July 30, 2000 11:10 AM I use the smith machine because of just the opposite reason. I guess the years of big-time football didn't help, but the smith doesn't hurt my joints quite as bad as the free. Although I do mix it up, the main thing I get/got from the free was injuries. SO, I guess everyone is different, and to each his own, right??? Peace Snake IP: Logged
easton Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 191)	posted July 30, 2000 11:51 AM i agree 100 percent! i didnt need expert opinion to tell me that either...although i suppose for some exercises its ok, but definately not squats! ill occasionally use a smith machine to burn out on close grip incline bench, but thats about it...i used to squat on them for the same reasons, i could do more weight with what looked like better form, and the stress it put on my knees and lower back was unreal IP: Logged
jocko Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 199)	posted July 30, 2000 12:10 PM I only use the smith machine for seated behind the neck presses. You wouldn't believe how many people in my gym use smith machine for squats, the way the perform them is sickening. If I was a orthopedic doctor I would open an office right next to our gym. peace. IP: Logged
Monster Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 200)	posted July 30, 2000 12:22 PM The only time I use the smith machine is after Ive pre-exhausted my legs with free squats (rock bottom, ass out squats). Then I'll occaisionally use the smith machine to do some squats with my legs way out in front for the isolation aspect of it. It couldnt be done with a free bar and a spotter isnt that helpful for post exhaustion since I at least will completly collapse on post exhaustion movements. But it is !!!!!!NOT!!!!!! a valid substitute for free squating, not by any means and neither is leg pressess or extensions. People do those to avoid the effort and pain of real balls to the wall squats. IP: Logged
Dirk Diggler Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 42)	posted July 30, 2000 12:38 PM "I position the bar high on my traps before stepping away from the rack." ...from www.flexonline.com what's wrong here? how can you step away from the rack if you're using a smith machine? IP: Logged
easton Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 191)	posted July 30, 2000 01:16 PM i want some of those, if smith machine will do that, i take back everything i said!...hahaha IP: Logged
MONSTROSITY Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 405)	posted July 30, 2000 02:21 PM I do have two valid uses for the smith machine: The first is a chest exercise: The best chest exercise I have ever done involves using gymnast rings/ or cable cross over handles. I use starps and hang 2 handles from the smith bar, about 3-4 feet apart. I set up the rings so that they are only 6 inches from the floor. I put a chair under my feet to elavate my body. I then do flys using my own bodyweight(almost looks like a push up, but it's actually a fly b/c the angle of the arm stays constant). I have showed this exercise to bodybuilders and they have had great success. I showed one guy this 4 weeks out from his show, he was amazed how fast his chest blew up. The final use I have for the smith involves an ab exercise. I set the bar so it's 3 feet off of the ground. I then sit on a swiss ball and hook my legs around the bar(behind knee joint) so that I am almost hanging upside down, while the ball is under my low back. I then do crunches. So there you have it, then only thing I use the Smith for is hanging things off from it. I suppose it also makes a good towel rack. IP: Logged
mac sloan Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 145)	posted July 30, 2000 02:49 PM Monstorsity it seems you have attended a Charles Poliquin Seminar,or you read alot of T-mag articles. IP: Logged
Vanguard Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 44)	posted July 30, 2000 03:09 PM Its frustrating because a lot of chicks think they are a voiding injury by doing Smith Machine Squats only partial. even chicks egos get in the way on using free wights and full range of motions. IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 637)	posted July 30, 2000 03:42 PM Some people truly cannot free squat. But if you CAN free squat, then you should. IP: Logged
MONSTROSITY Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 405)	posted July 30, 2000 03:49 PM If you can out of bed by yourself, you can free sq. The weight just needs to be apropriate ( meaning lower weight ). And there are times whne NO weight is apropriate. I have helped many athletes recover from serious sports related njuries my recovery time has been much quicker than many others who advocate the use of the Smith. IP: Logged
mac sloan Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 145)	posted July 30, 2000 05:10 PM There are people who can not squat,so it would be in their best interest to get them to somehow squat whether it be with a ball behind their back or a smith machine.Then progress them to a free squat mthod. IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 637)	posted July 30, 2000 05:31 PM You try free-squatting with a fused ankle and tell me kow much fun you have falling over with NO weight on your back! I mean some people really CANNOT free squat. In these cases smith's, hack sleds and leg presses are better than no weight training for legs. I get sick of people (almost always PTs trying to pick up new clients) telling me I should be free squatting when they see me doing 'less effective' or 'dangerous' exercises. I'll save my stabilizer work for my deadlifts and presses thank you. IP: Logged
code_x Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 180)	posted July 30, 2000 05:32 PM well the smith machine is a great place to hang my gym bag...and at only a couple grand what a fucking deal!!! we wont even have the damn things at world...I rember at 17 I could squat 585 on the smith...when I tried 405 on free weight it took me straight to the floor...I've had nothing to due with them since...-x IP: Logged
Fast Eddie Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 22)	posted July 30, 2000 05:48 PM I can free squat more than I can with the smith machine. Free squats are a hell of alot more comfortable too. I see guys all the time doing thier partial reps on the smith machine, you know the ones, the guys who wont put the bar accros their back without a maxie pad on it. I try to help them but they just get an attitude and keep doing their half ass movements. IP: Logged
MONSTROSITY Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 405)	posted July 30, 2000 07:44 PM Put the bar on your back like a real man and free squat..........or go home and suck your mother's tit. IP: Logged
pharmaguy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 108)	posted July 30, 2000 08:25 PM I'm not sure I totally agree with you on this one chief, another strength coach by the name of Ian King who is just as good as Poliquin or Simmons has and continues to use the Smith to build legs. Also, any leg movement where one bends at the knees causes shearing forces on the knees and back. Smith actually takes some off of the back. However the knee is open to debate. Remember, there is not just one way to build muscle; Smith serves it's purposes as well. ------------------ IP: Logged
Yoda Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 330)	posted July 30, 2000 10:18 PM While I agree with you that free weights are the best, the Smith Machine does not ruin a body, nor does any machine. Its just another tool to add to the arsenal. Dorian Yates used it to do Squats, also Inclines and look at the body he built. Unless your looking to compete in power lifting or weight lifting events it really is up to personal preference. Doing free weight exercises because they develop "stabalizers" is rediculous, again unless your going to compete. Stabalizers dont show up when you flex do they??? Personally I go back and forth between both, some times I use the Smith machine some times free weights and I can free Squat 650lbs which is over 3 times my body weight. If your going to condemn the Smith machine, you may as well throw out the Hack Squat machine, the Calf machines, Cable cross over rack, Pull/pushdown machines, etc., etc. Oh, and my Quads measure a hard 30" which aint bad on a 5'6.5" body!!!!! IP: Logged
E M T Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 123)	posted July 30, 2000 10:27 PM I have never had anything but injuries from the smith machine. The device forces you to move the weight in a straight line which is unnatural. IP: Logged
DREXX Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 489)	posted July 30, 2000 10:35 PM Holy Shit Balls Yoda! If your quads really measure 30" at 5'6.5" you must be scary looking! My buddy is 6'0 at 250lbs and he has 29" monster quads... The only use I found for the smith machine is standing calf raises..For this is kicks ass... For Squat well everything as been said. I never understood why someone would want to squat in a smith machine. It forces your body in an unatural groove. Free-bar Squats lets your body go where it wants... [This message has been edited by DREXX (edited July 30, 2000).] IP: Logged
spooky Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 44)	posted July 30, 2000 10:55 PM Well said Yoda One mo' gun in the arsenal! BUMP! ------------------ - spooky - There is only one constant ... If you don't do it, You'll never get it - SR IP: Logged
big_guy1 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1292)	posted July 31, 2000 12:01 AM I hate smith machine persoanlly, never thought it could be good, it restrictes your motnion to me, and as stated you loose the little muscles involved in the lift...I agree though..it maek a good towel rack, and it is good to help stretching out stuff too.... big-guy IP: Logged
Yoda Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 330)	posted July 31, 2000 12:12 AM Yup Drexx, their about 28" when I'm cut, now if I could just get the upper body to catch up I'd be a happy camper!!!!!! Genetics, just gotta love them. IP: Logged
2BIG4U Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 131)	posted July 31, 2000 08:30 AM My first cycle ever I lived and died by the smith machine...I was taking a-bombs at the time...the reason why I used the smith machine was for a self spotter. When I moved back to free weights I ended up blowing out my rotators cuff during midcycle, and had to lay off the gear I gained enough bf to send my bf% up to 24%!!!!! That sucked...The smith machine does not work on your stabilzer muscles. That was a lesson learned, also learned that your workout is ony as good as your partner.......if you have a good partner he will help you and your body succeed its maimum potential. ------------------ IF YOUR HEART'S NOT INTO IT YOU'RE NOT INTO IT!! IP: Logged
FLEXMEX Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 208)	posted July 31, 2000 01:17 PM i may sometimes use the smith to do lunges if my legs a feeling totaly burnt but other than that...... it works nicely to hang you towel. ------------------ GOD DAMN.....ITS GOOD TO BE ME !!! IP: Logged
jdismukes Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 381)	posted July 31, 2000 01:26 PM Thats ridiculous. IP: Logged

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