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 Anabolic vs. Androgenic: What do I need?
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| Author | Topic: Anabolic vs. Androgenic: What do I need? |
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Twisted_Steel Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 402) |
posted July 25, 2000 12:25 PM
   Ok, so you have been training for a few years clean. In that time you have come to realize the importance of proper diet and efficient training. You recogonize the utter importance of protein for muscular growth, carbohydrates for energy, and fats for their anabolic properties. You understand that progress cann't be made without pain. You train hard and you train to failure, all those previous reps are supperfluous, it was those last two done amidst the strain of increasing lactic acid and the sheer pain of muscular fatigue that will yield hypertrophy. You see the big picture and realize that your gentic potential is limited by design, and would like to supperceed those impediments because the idea of competative bodybuilding/powerlifting/advanced training appeals to you. Its time to educate yourself on the proper uses of Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids. What the hell do you do? Your aquaintance from the gym is offering you handfulls of d-ball, but as a bodybuilder is that the ideal lone compound you would benefit most from? Or your powerlifting buddy has run across a great deal of deca and presents you with the option to purchase it, but your a powerlifter are you certain that nandralone decanoate will propel you along the ranks of the IPA? Perplexing issues like these have confronted many a novice, myself included. I was fortunate enough to have 1on1 contact with persons in the know who gladly informed me of the difference between these two similar yet different classes of steroid. Perhaps this concise explanation will help you make you draw your own conclusions. First take into considerations that the presence of Androgens within the body will yield observable side effects with respect to secondary sex characteristics. Along with testosterone Androgens are responsible for the masuclaization of men and women. It can wreak sheer endocronological havoc within the bodies of women. 17-aa androgens like D-ball, winstrol, Anadrol are by design some of the most dangerous products available. Conversely they yield the most impressive results. Compounds like trenbolan acetate, found in finiplex pellets, halotestin, anadrol will yield significant intramuscular water retention. It is by this buffering mechanism that the user experiences those amazing increases in strength. Conversely, those impressive strength are only available as long as those products are within the body. The dissapointing factor behind these drugs along with their high hepatoxicity (damaging to liver) is their relative half-life within the body. Once use ceases, water retention is lost. This could contribute to some pyschological issues if the user utilized them soley for their muscular building effects. Therefore, athletes interested in temporary powerful increases in strength for the purposes of a specific "EVENT" would be interested in making these items a staple in his supplementation regimen. With respect to the Anabolics, drugs like Primobolan Depot, Parabolan, Masteron, Deca. These are an interesting lot. By design, their intent is to promote the increase in lean body bass. They are anabolic "growth" vs catabolic "atrophy". The gains acquired from them can be maintained once use of these products cease. They are generally less harsh on the body. Hepatoxicity is quite minimal. Their drawback, is when done by themselves the gains made off their sole use is not what I would call superlative. They are what I would call modest. What's more, highly anabolic supplements are rather pricy. To quote Chris Tucker, "And you know this maaaaaaaaaan". The price of two legitamte portuguees amps of Masteron is enough to buy you 10 weeks worth of any of the 17-aa androgens. The other great aspect to the anabolics are the gains. If post cycle is handled correctly their almost 85% permenant and maintainable. The down side is that they do not promote the intramuscular buffering effects of water retention. Don't expect to set a world record bench on a cycle of deca and primo. Now, most athletes what the best of both worlds. Thats where the synergistic effects of stacking come into play. Synergy referes to the complementary effect two compounds have with each other. Deca and D-ball are a perfect example. They complement and reenforce each others chemical deficiencies. The athlete now enjoys the best of both worlds. Water retention for strength, and the anabolic effect for retainable muscle mass. Odd, I have completely exculded the queen of hormones testosterone. Note: the king of hormones is Insulin, but thats for another day. Testoserone, is a God send for athletes. It gives you the best of both worlds. Highly anabolic and androgenic the testosterone esters should be the absolute base of any cycle. They are the complete package and in my opinion reigns supreme. The controversy over the efficacy of deca vs test is a moot point. As illustraed above nandralone decanoate offers the athlete only half of the pie. Test gives you the whole damn thing. Now, with this fundamental understanding, and the assumption that your physically and MENTALLY ready for gear. Make an informed decision and reep the rewards. Godbless ------------------ IP: Logged |
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happymf'er Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 200) |
posted July 25, 2000 12:31 PM
This is exactly what we need more of. Excellent post T_S!!! IP: Logged |
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Ffactor Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 59) |
posted July 25, 2000 12:34 PM
Thanks for the post. Very informative. IP: Logged |
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THE APE Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 123) |
posted July 25, 2000 12:35 PM
T.S.-AS USUAL,I ENJOY READING WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ON ANABOLICS.THIS IS THE KIND OF INFO THAT KEEPS ME ADDICTED TO THIS BOARD.THANK YOU FOR THE INSIGHT. IP: Logged |
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chino8416 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 63) |
posted July 25, 2000 12:38 PM
Excellent post bro,very informative,especially for rookies such as myself. IP: Logged |
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Dogballs Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 56) |
posted July 25, 2000 12:44 PM
Very useful shit, Bump for the newbies seeking knowledge. IP: Logged |
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blkLotus Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 169) |
posted July 25, 2000 12:52 PM
well said. bump bump bump. peace bro'. IP: Logged |
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Mr. Nobody Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 25, 2000 01:00 PM
trenbolone acetate does not cause water retention since it has low androgenic high anabolic attributes, it is kidney toxic though, it is being used at end of cycles to "downregulate" cortisol receptors and permanize gains, it is also used in a cutting cycle IP: Logged |
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waltzman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 140) |
posted July 25, 2000 01:03 PM
keep the good info coming IP: Logged |
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B_Funk Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 284) |
posted July 25, 2000 01:10 PM
Very good post Twisted. Bump IP: Logged |
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scooby Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 157) |
posted July 25, 2000 02:26 PM
Good post, very informative. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Steriod_Virgin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 309) |
posted July 25, 2000 08:45 PM
Twisted: you have been on a rampage of excellent posts.. way to go bro! Keep it up! IP: Logged |
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DREXX Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 476) |
posted July 25, 2000 08:57 PM
I must admit this is a good post! Keep them comming bro! By the way when is your contest? IP: Logged |
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Twisted_Steel Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 402) |
posted July 25, 2000 09:31 PM
August 26 charleston south carolina. Thank you all for the kind words. I really enjoy this "hobbie" of mine. I love even more to help others with this issue. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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bgriff Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 767) |
posted July 25, 2000 09:34 PM
BUUUUUMMMPPP!!! GOOD POST BRO!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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DREXX Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 476) |
posted July 25, 2000 09:41 PM
So TS you are about 4 weeks out. How is your bodyfat percent? First contest right. Are you nervous? Did you make your posing routine yet? Anyway Good Luck and Keep us posted... IP: Logged |
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Twisted_Steel Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 402) |
posted July 25, 2000 09:57 PM
6'0 194 7% Routine is simple, simple, simple. I will be competeing as a novice. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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DREXX Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 476) |
posted July 25, 2000 10:02 PM
Cool I was about 7% 4 weeks out and could only get it down to 5% by contest day. For me this wasn't enough! My legs where still soft so where my glutes and lower back. I didn't use any diuretics so many say it was water. Next time I will make sure to be about 4.5% to 5% on the calipers by week 4 and then hit about 3% on week 2 and maintain till contest. 3% on calipers isn't necesseral 3% bodyfat but it is where I feel I would be shredded enough to blow away the comp. Next contest I will use a diuretic like Lasix and I will take T3. IP: Logged |
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gamer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 258) |
posted July 25, 2000 11:01 PM
Mr. Nobody Not a flame man but your mistaken. Trenbolone Acetate (parabolone or fina) is highly androgenic. It is a non-aromitizing androgen making it ideal for contest prep and getting hard. It does not aromitize into estrogen but can display progestinic effects when high dosages are used by sensitive individuals. Just wanted to clear up potential confusion. IP: Logged |
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Bossman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 425) |
posted July 25, 2000 11:08 PM
Great post TS, this is what we need more of on this board. ---------------- Bossman IP: Logged |
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Zeacky Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 83) |
posted July 26, 2000 02:45 AM
"Hold The Presses" From what I've read, I believe there may be a typo in TS's otherwise great article. I could be totally off base though, it's 11:28 pm. "Compounds like trenbolan acetate, found in finiplex pellets, halotestin, anadrol will yield significant intramuscular water retention." I didn't know that trenbolan acetate (Finaplix-H) caused water retention. With respect to the Anabolics, drugs like Primobolan Depot, Parabolan, Masteron, Deca. These are an interesting lot. By design, their intent is to promote the increase in lean body bass. They are anabolic "growth" vs catabolic "atrophy". The gains acquired from them can be maintained once use of these products cease. They are generally less harsh on the body. Hepatoxicity is quite minimal." I thought Parabolan was very toxic to the liver and kidneys. Isn't trenbolan found in fina? And also found in Parabolan. So trenbolan=Parabolan and trenbolan acetate=finaplix I just don't want people to be misinformed by your post TS. If I am wrong I will delete this post promptly. Gone, IP: Logged |
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Mr. Nobody Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 26, 2000 08:20 AM
gamer, you are right it is androgenic as well, but since it does not aromatize, it will not cause water retention as stated wrongly in TS post. [This message has been edited by Mr. Nobody (edited July 26, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Mr. Nobody (edited July 26, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Mr. Nobody Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 26, 2000 08:22 AM
one more thing: gamer, are you saying sensitive individuals can still get gyno from it? What about combining it with winny in order to antigonize the progesterone receptors [This message has been edited by Mr. Nobody (edited July 26, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Mr. Nobody Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 26, 2000 12:23 PM
bunp, need to hear from gamer IP: Logged |
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Mr. Nobody Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 26, 2000 12:50 PM
prev bump did not work IP: Logged |
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Twisted_Steel Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 402) |
posted July 26, 2000 03:04 PM
Ok, first allow me to deal with the confusion started over Parabolan. Dispight its androgenic properties, this drug behaves very much like an anabolic. It is composed of Trenbolan, trenbolone hexa-hydro-benzyl-carbonate. It acts very much like masteron. Trenbolan Acetate by itself isn't a harsh androgen, you were right on correcting me there. My prior thoughts came from wittnessing an aquaintance prepare his own fina. He purchased his pellets free form in large quantity. It was sold to him in a 2.2lb protien tub. He held water like a spunge off of it. It was the only compound that he was running. I wonder if there was any estradiol in those pellets. He also got gyno for the first time off that stuff. hmm now im concerned. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Mr. Nobody Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 26, 2000 03:11 PM
what did the pellets look like and if they had estradol in it it was Synovex or Synovex+. I wonder if those pellets look different than the real fina pellets, anybody? IP: Logged |
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macrophage69alpha Moderator (Total posts: 1469) |
posted July 26, 2000 03:32 PM
There is considerable anecdotal evidence that trenbolone is a mixed agonist/antagonist of the progesterone receptor in some individuals- It can cause progestenic GYNO. With respect to the hardness and increased vascularity that most individuals get from trenbolone it would appear that it acts as a progestenic antagonist(much like stanozolol). also the joint inflamations and loss of muscular/tendon elasticity associated with anti progestenic drugs are often seen in trenbolone users. The advantage of trenbolone acetate is that it has a short half life 1-2days(possibly less) thus if symptoms of Gyno occur discontinuation is rather easy. With other progestins like DECA- well lets just say having some winstrol on hand is not a bad idea. Peace ------------------ IP: Logged |
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giantset Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 257) |
posted July 26, 2000 03:57 PM
Great post but I feel I need to add something. It is not how androgenic or anabolic a steroid is that determines how much water it will cause someone to retain. Water retention is mainly due to progestinic factors like with deca or the aromitization of a steroid into estrogen. Androgens generally aromitize more than anabolics and therefore cause more water retention. Trenbolone acetate and halotestin of course are examples of androgens that do not aromitize to any great degree and therefore do not cause water retention. Water retention due to steroid use can be combated by anti-estrogens like arimidex or by drugs that compete with the stronger estrogens for receptor sites like nolvedex. Later, IP: Logged |
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DubSack Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 137) |
posted July 26, 2000 04:25 PM
bump..great post a lot of good info IP: Logged |
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Mr. Nobody Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 245) |
posted July 26, 2000 04:28 PM
GIANT SET, good info, however let me add as well, deca induced water retention and deca dick CAN NOT be combated with clomid nor any other estrogen reducing drug, since it acts upon the progesterone receptors, the better choice as pointed out before would be winny. IP: Logged |
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GymRatSD Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 318) |
posted July 26, 2000 04:58 PM
This is some GREAT information that answered some questions I was just asking myself today. Thanks for these posts. This is why I'm here. Also, welcome back macrophage69alpha! I haven't seen your posts in a LONG time! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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