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 Gaining vs Fatassing
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| Author | Topic: Gaining vs Fatassing |
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Twisted_Steel Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 353) |
posted July 21, 2000 06:34 PM
   Hey fellas, wanted to share an opinion of mine based soley upon what I have seen in my gym and abroad pertaining to athletes training only for increases in muscular hypertrophy (bulking). More often than not novices training for the first time on the shit allow themsleves to become quite sloppy in their diets and physique because their under the impression that only through an extreme increase in caloric intake is it possible to experience "great gains". I personally think there is definate truth to this, however theory has been practiced so poorly by most that there is something to be said about another view to hypertrophy oriented training. I would venture to say that only 3 athletes at my gym are able to maintain a quality physique yearround while still experiencing steady growth. So many others allow their bodies to grow into amorphic blobs of water retention. On occassion I have discussed this with them, informing them that they could efficiently eliminate 80% of superfluous bloat if they only regulated their carb and sodium intake. My previous training partner was running a gram of sus along with various other high dose goodies, he maintaned a relativly high calorie diet, "5000" did so through the use of clean foods, and never once assumed that cactus like bloat you all are familier with. What happens at the end of the cycle, serves to disillusion a great many novice bodybuilders once they cease test supplementation. They lose 20-30 lbs of water instantly. Chances are most of them monitored their weights obsessivly believing that their weight increase was due to lean muscle, when in fact it meerly was intramuscular water retention. Granted, theirs no way to completly eliminate this phenomenon, and some people would never dream of it, considering its this water retention that contributes to the awesome increases in strength. However, im personally more into the easthetics of bodybuilding and seek to minimize the "bloat". I like to avoid uneccessary negative attention as well as serving to keep me in perspective with respect to actual gains in lean muscle. In conclusion, let me drive home the point that it is possible to induce the desired results with respect to muscular hypertrophy without needless shape distorting water retention. Stay lean and grow. Unless you like the Greg Kovacs look.  Your thoughts?------------------ IP: Logged |
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Romeo Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 531) |
posted July 21, 2000 06:49 PM
well steel...you have definitley said alot....i agree with you that people take steroids thinking that it is all they need to become this super human person...but they over look the most important aspect of it all...the diet---the sleep---the ass busting workouts ..the dedication....the will power ....and even more importantly the knowledge....... noone wants to look like shit ...but ignorance says it all peace romeo IP: Logged |
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BigWh1tey Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 190) |
posted July 21, 2000 07:17 PM
I have to agree with alot of what youve said ,but for me personally , i feel as though if i hadnt literally stayed bulked up for about 5 years , i would have anywhere near the amount of muscle i have now . Now that being said .... Most really good bodybuilder i know ( excluding some pros , Lee priest , Mike matarazzo , who are known for blowing up like balloons ) dont rise above the 14% Bf mark in the offseason , but alot of them have spent years putting that mass where it needs to be , and are literally only looking to improve specific bodyparts in the offseason . Youve heard the story about a young Arnold walking into Vince Girondas gym like the " cock of the walk " @ 260# . Everyone was like WOW! Vince ! Look at this kid !! All he said was "He just looks like another fat fuck to me , but we'll see what we can do " ( loosely paraphrased ) . Arnold used to say you should spend as long as it takes to put the right amount of mass on your frame using basic heavy movements and power eating . IP: Logged |
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DREXX Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 454) |
posted July 21, 2000 07:30 PM
Right now I just started a cycle and my goal is to not let bodyfat go higher than 12%. The way to do this is to diet before starting a mass cycle and get down to 8%. I see no point in going below 8% unless competing. Below 8% is hard to maintain and I usually start to lose lbm if not using gear. IP: Logged |
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ColumboWeiser Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 89) |
posted July 21, 2000 07:40 PM
I agree that people think a/s is the wonder pill thats gonna make them huge with little effort. I see this all the time in my gym also. I think you should never let your bf% go above 12% for any reason, fat will not help you grow. I think people just lack the willpower to eat clean year round... Just my opinion.... IP: Logged |
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eastarr Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 181) |
posted July 21, 2000 07:41 PM
This is hypothetical: Say someone was on a cycle of d-bol for instance and their diet consisted of the following items, could you say they would gain mass without the fat and water and retain that mass after the cycle. Diet: Calories per day - 3,000 to 4,000 daily. Consisting of supplements of mass builder drinks. Protein - say 2-3g per pound of weight. One good meal in eveing of say chicken, or meat and rice or potato and vegetable. Majority of calories and carbs and protein would be from supplements except for the one meal a day. Also a multivitamin a day. Lets say at the start of the cycle the body weight was 215# at 19% bodyfat and finished at 230# at 10-11% bodyfat. No losses of size or strength at end of the cycle. And lets say the cycle doses were at 15 mg a day for 10 weeks. Also 3-5 gallons of water would be drank during the day. That is alot of water. But, fact is that more you drink the less your body will retain. Remember al the caloric intake and protein, carbs etc would all be good quality from supps and the fat intake would be minimal. Do you think the gains would then be attainable? I have done a case study on this using myself, and I have found that it works. What do you guys think? Or maybe my genes' are just better then some? ------------------ "Pain is weakness leaving the body>>>" IP: Logged |
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ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 522) |
posted July 21, 2000 08:00 PM
Some people don't understand that some of the pros with great genetics (Flex Wheeler, Dexter Jackson, I could go on...) can eat whatever they want and only get up to 12-15% bodyfat in the off-season. Wish I had that problem, but I don't, so I have to be conservative. IP: Logged |
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BP66 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 8) |
posted July 21, 2000 10:46 PM
Interesting thread. I just wanted to comment that Flex does get pretty fat during the off season, I would say he's easily over 15%BF, but you're right about Dexter. I read an interview where he said that he never has to do cardio, and that by simply cutting some carbs from his diet, he's able to get into contest shape in a matter of weeks...that's impressive. IP: Logged |
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musclegear Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 166) |
posted July 21, 2000 10:58 PM
I agree 100%. Most people think all they need to get big is test. Unfortunately, when their cycle is over they lose all the water bloat and find out that they've only gained around 5 lbs of quality muscle. I still see some posts flaming people who use Decca, Primobolan depot, HGH, Equipoise, Masteron, etc... The difference is every time I do a cycle, I keep that 15 lbs of quality muscle that I gained. Don't get me wrong, I do incorporate some form of test in every cycle, but you have to stack it with something that's going to help you keep those gains. Besides, I don't like the bloated pufferfish look. IP: Logged |
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Decaman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 519) |
posted July 21, 2000 10:59 PM
I have to say I can relate to this thread but in a different manner. I am constantly monitoring my bodyfat even more so during bulking, either by a visual inspection or with some device and i feel my obsession with not geting fat has hurt me in regards to gaining more mass. That being said I have decided to eat everything in sight this winter on my bulking cycle, and not worry about my bf. My feeling is , especially after seeing how effective t3 and a clean lo-carb diet can be, this is the only way for me to achieve what i have in mind. Besides dieting year round is driving me nuts, I need a break, I just hope i can get past the mental hurdle. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Lqdmscle Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 201) |
posted July 22, 2000 04:50 AM
ajc1977, those genetic freak you talked about, they are not gifted. They had many years training. They take the right shit and they train right. They stay lean not because they have great genetics, its the HGH! I have to agree, quality is better than quantity. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Fukkenshredded Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 78) |
posted July 22, 2000 05:27 AM
Quality thread here. I also agree that added fat does not help with gaining muscle, beyond a certain point. Quality is the goal of any serious endeavor. I, for example, do not look like a bodybuilder AT ALL. I'm five ten, and weigh about 170. I am, however, extrememly lean. Many guess my weight at 185-190 out of clothes, and 160-170 dressed. I found that maintaining a low bodyfat percentage year round has a very positive impact on training intensity, at least for me. There are times that I miss periods in the gym, because of the nature of my work. The leanness keeps me cosmetically impressive, even though I am small. Anyway, this was an interesting thread and I thought I would babble about myself there for a sec. IP: Logged |
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Bchemist Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 41) |
posted July 22, 2000 09:39 AM
When I do the bulking thing, I find that the only time excessively over-eating does anything significant is the first 2 weeks or so. After that, I feel like I gain much more fat than muscle whether on AS or not. My body reaches a form of equilibrium. After that point any EXTRA muscle I gain from the excessive bulking phase will be lost when cutting. So after the two week pig-out period, I just eat to the "comfort level" and I found that works best vs. over-eating. IP: Logged |
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