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 WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ESTROGEN AND PROGESTERONE?
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| Author | Topic: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ESTROGEN AND PROGESTERONE? |
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JUICESEEKER Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 272) |
posted July 17, 2000 06:42 PM
  
I KNOW WHAT THE FEMALE HORMONE ESTROGEN IS BUT WHAT EXACTLY IS PROGESTERONE AND WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? SOMEBODY KNOWLEGEBLE PLEASE RESPOND! IP: Logged |
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el cubano Moderator (Total posts: 596) |
posted July 17, 2000 07:18 PM
Progesterone also is a female hormone. It's main purpose is to produce and develop the milk ducts in pregnant women! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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gamer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 244) |
posted July 17, 2000 07:20 PM
Progesterone is another female hormone like estrogen. It plays an intregal part in the pregnancy in woman. This is why the abortion pill RU486 is an anti-progesterone. Without progesterone the fetus can't properly attatch to the uterus and a miscarriage will result. It is also one of the main hormones involved in the cause of PMS. This is why deca (which imparts progestinic effects on users due to it's progesterone mimicing effects) causes moodiness in males and is one of the reasons why it kills your dick. (along with the resulting androgen efficiency if test isn't added to a nandrolone cycle.) This chemical has many of the same effects as estrogen causing downregulation of test production and gynocomastia problems in certain individuals with a predisposition or when high doses of deca or anadrol are used. For some trenbolone causes this although not to the degree as deca and anadrol. This is why people in rare cases get gyno from parabolan even though it doesn't convert to estrogen being a non-aromitizing androgen. It's important to understand that aromitase inhibitors (arimidex, clomid, proviron)will due nothing for progesterone issues because steroids aren't actually aromitized into progesterone. The progesterone molecules are instead very similar to certain AS molecules, like nandrolone, and actually activate the progesterone receptor resulting in progestinic effects. Anti-estrogens will obviousely not help since the culprit is progesterone rather than estrogen. Winny is a progesterone antagonist actually competing for the receptor site with the progesterone molecules. Other than that and RU486 (which bodybuilding availability along with dosing info are not easily found) there is nothing you can do except avoid the drugs which cause these effects. That is the position I'm in since only 200mg of deca caused progestinic gyno in me. i'm an obvious freak however, and if intelligence is used in most cycle planning the problem can be avoided. Hope this helps. IP: Logged |
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JUICESEEKER Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 272) |
posted July 17, 2000 07:24 PM
THE INFO SURE HAS HELPED! THANKS! IP: Logged |
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gamer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 244) |
posted July 17, 2000 07:26 PM
Not a problem. E-mail me if you have anymore questions. IP: Logged |
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Unity66 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 154) |
posted July 17, 2000 08:46 PM
Thats quite an informitive post gamer. I knew of the potential progestinic problems resulting from nandrolone and trenbolone...but had never heard of anadrol imparting progestinic problems. Wasnt aware of winstrols ability to compete for progesterone receptors either. I'm going to try and dig-up some more info on this topic-damn good post though  Unity66 IP: Logged |
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standupfighter Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 26) |
posted July 17, 2000 10:25 PM
gamer knows his stuff believe me..gave me the best advice and help..in my inquiriesIP: Logged |
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el cubano Moderator (Total posts: 596) |
posted July 17, 2000 11:26 PM
Actually, anadrol converting to progesterone is a new finding, but still hasn't been proven more than once. It's just like the nolvadex subject. One study on nolvadex done on pregnant women showed that it decreased IGF-1 levels but has yet to be proven since, but everyone still thinks nolvadex will hinder gains. What you really need to be worried about when taking nolvadex is that the FDA has recently put it on the carcinagen list, kind of ironic huh! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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THE APE Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 4) |
posted July 19, 2000 03:15 AM
GAMER-JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW YOUR NOT SUCH A FREAK.I HAD PROGESTINIC PROBS WITH DECA ALSO.GYNO AND WATER RETENTION AT ONLY 200mgs/week.CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS LIKE OURSELVES MUST BE HYPER SENSITIVE. NEVER HAD THOSE PROBS WITH SUST OR D-BOL(i.e.ESTROGEN SENSITIVITY).STRANGE HUH? IP: Logged |
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ryry Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 620) |
posted July 19, 2000 01:42 PM
gamer you know your shit! damn good post. i might just email you if about this subject. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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2Thick Moderator (Total posts: 3297) |
posted July 19, 2000 02:08 PM
I would not jump to conclusions about Deca. It is still the greatest steroid out there and you usually do not see any progesterone induced symptoms until you go over 600mg/week. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com IP: Logged |
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ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 475) |
posted July 19, 2000 02:15 PM
Do clomid, proviron, or nolva help with this? I have heard clomid does not. IP: Logged |
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ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 475) |
posted July 19, 2000 02:38 PM
Hey, Somebody...Help a bro out. Is there anything that one should be taking when on heavy doses of Deca? IP: Logged |
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gamer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 244) |
posted July 19, 2000 02:45 PM
2thick I'm with you on Deca's greatness as it would be in ALL my stacks could I tolerate it. Infortunately since the RU486 thing is still in the "test" mode I can't touch it again for now. The muscle gain I got from it was very high quality and also very easy to keep in comparison to the muscle gained while taking the androgens. Just wanted to clarify and make sure everyone knows I'm not bashing deca and I still believe that for most it's one of the very best drugs for risk vs. returns. Just not for the sensitive freaks like me. IP: Logged |
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THE APE Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 4) |
posted July 19, 2000 02:58 PM
2THICK-IBELIEVE DECA WAS PROBABLY THE MOST EFFECTIVE ROID I HAVE USED IN TERMS OF STRENGTH/JOINT ALLEVIATION.MY PROBLEM WAS THAT NOLVA DID NOTHING AGAINST THE SIDES WHERE IT WAS HIGHLY EFFECTIVE ON TEST.I WOULD LOVE TO TRY DECA AGAIN IF I COULD COMBAT THE PROGESTINIC SIDES.ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU COULD GIVE ME ON WINSTROL/RU-486(EFFECTIVE DOSES TO COMBAT SIDES)??p.s.I READ YOUR INJECTION SITE-AWESOME BRO. IP: Logged |
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Jeff_rys Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 504) |
posted July 19, 2000 02:58 PM
The difference between Estrogen and Progesterone : You can fight Estrogen, but you will loose your battle against Progesterone. The end-result is gyno. (If not being carefull). I don't know of anything to fight against Progesterone. ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short IP: Logged |
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ajc1977 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 475) |
posted July 19, 2000 03:04 PM
That blows a big fat one. IP: Logged |
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Fener Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 65) |
posted July 19, 2000 05:24 PM
that is very iteresting since i'm planning to use deca. Is there any way i can know before starting the cycle if i could be progesterone-sensitive. And if i start the cycle do you think that stopping deca at the very first sings of gyno would avoid getting it? Also where could i find RU486? IP: Logged |
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flaco Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 50) |
posted July 19, 2000 06:51 PM
Im a bout to do a deca, ref, clomid cycle and wonder if theres and way to tell if gyno does sprout will the only way ill know if its prog. induced is if novaldex does'nt inhibit it? Would I then halt the deca or taper it? This is a damn informative thread!!!!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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gamer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 244) |
posted July 19, 2000 09:06 PM
Quit taking it immediately. Don't taper it as their willstill be progestinic effects at a lower dose. The only exception to this would be if your dose was over 600mg (which I find unneccesary with deca) because this is the point sides start to really manifest themselves. If you are over 600 then try to go down to around 400 and see what happens. If their is no improvement then get out immediately and begin your clomid if you are not on other drugs at the time you drop your deca. If you are on a stack then just cut you deca and continue your cycle as planned as your gains will slow but you won't crash which is the real concern in this situation. IP: Logged |
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elite hot topic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 236) |
posted July 19, 2000 09:14 PM
bump do you guys have the same problem with eq. IP: Logged |
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gamer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 244) |
posted July 19, 2000 10:14 PM
EQ is a completely different drug in terms of gyno sensitivity. It would cause gyno through estrogen rather than progesterone. This is very rare with reasonable doses of EQ as it does not aromitize readily. This makes it a good substitute for those who can't use deca (drug testing and progestinic gyno reasons)or who want a little more muscle density than with deca. IP: Logged |
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barrabaz Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 6) |
posted July 20, 2000 01:05 AM
I hate to simply pile on more on deca-durabolin, but I too find myself to be EXTREMELY sensitive to deca's ability to interact with the progesterone receptors. What is more, I've never actually injected deca. The question was asked if one could find out if one was sensitive to this specific side effect of deca's without actually trying deca and to be honest I don't think you can. However, I used the oral nandrolene precursors which can be bought via Syntrax or Meritech and that is how I came to realize that nandrolone is simply not tolerated by my body even in minimal quantities. These legal pro-hormones can be bought easily enough (I don't think their legal status has changed yet) and will convert to the chemical nandrolene decanoate in the body. Yet, the orals have the advantage of being metabolized out of the body very quickly. This was very beneficial to me seeing as the adverse side effects it was causing were readily noticeable nearly from the start. In short, I don't think it would be unwise to use these orals if one has never used deca before. It can show your proclivity to the possible side effects before you introduce any injectable deca. You may find that the large order of deca you were planning to make is actually not in your best interest. However, I do have to close by saying that the general consensus is that deca is one of the best steroids available in regards to its advantage/risk ratio. IP: Logged |
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flaco Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 50) |
posted July 20, 2000 06:51 AM
Ok just a couple more questions if you all don't mind. I understand an effective and safe dose for newbies for newbies using deca would be 400mg a weeek starting at 400mg and tapering down at the end. Would it be wise to test the waters w maybe 200mg a week the first two weeks and then just prolong the cycle to like 12 wks instead of 8, thus adding 2 more wks at 400 and 2 more to taper down in the end????? Also, does prog. induced gyno give the same symptoms as estogen induced, such as itchy or sensitive nips? Any others specific to that sort or are they all the same. Thanks bros!!!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 586) |
posted July 20, 2000 03:40 PM
Estrogen upregulates both the estrogen receptors AND the progesterone receptors. So gyno and fluid retention are both mainly progestenic side effects. In other words, estrogen causes an increase in progestenic sides, and so do progestenic AS. Anti-estrogens block the down stream upregulation of progesterone receptors, but cannot block the progesterone receptors from the likes of Deca. Clear as mud? Hormones get soooo confusing. The short answer to the gyno question is that you cannot tell the difference between the 'feel' of estrogen induced gyno and progestenic gyno. IP: Logged |
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