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 The Problem With Domestic Sources
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| Author | Topic: The Problem With Domestic Sources |
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2Thick Moderator (Total posts: 3094) |
posted July 02, 2000 05:10 PM
  
I am always puzzled when people go out of their way to find a domestic source. There are several reasons why this could be very dangerous. 1) A Fed could be selling them and you are screwed from the first e-mail. 2) You could easily be tracked down and set up because the sale is within the country. 3) Since you have to be more careful when selling domestic, then total anonymity is essential. That means you will never find the guy if he scams you. The worst thing that could happen with a non-domestic is that your parcel gets seized. It is not worth the risk. Buying gear should not be a reason to go to jail. Buying domestic takes the percentage (of getting busted), up exponentially. Finally, most domestic sources are eventually caught. On the other hand, it is very rare to se a foreign source get busted. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com IP: Logged |
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spoonman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 343) |
posted July 02, 2000 05:17 PM
I agree with you on most points. If the person is anonymous there is no way to find him. But if you get scammed by a foreigner your fucked. Plus the worst thing to happen is not to get it seized. You get your addy flagged, plus if they want they could get a warrant based on the package going to that address and search your house, possibly finding something you don't want them to. Also if you use a drop addy you have to risk the oickup from there. Anytime you have to deal with customs it is unnecessary. So on that point I respectfully disagree and have to say that domestic is the only way too go. If you can find the right price and the person is easily trackable. spoon IP: Logged |
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Decaman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 341) |
posted July 02, 2000 05:18 PM
Must you make me nervous. LOL ------------------ IP: Logged |
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ironmaster Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 217) |
posted July 02, 2000 05:35 PM
2thick, those of us you have favored domestic probably do so because we fear being flagged by customs and playing dodge em forever after, and because we had a trusted domestic source. My source of many years recently retired after countless deliveries without a hitch. Now I am in this foreign/domestic predicament. Your insight is appreciated. IP: Logged |
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spoonman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 343) |
posted July 02, 2000 05:36 PM
Just one more point 2Thick. How can you say that buying domestic raises the getting busted ratio up? If you ship from state A to state B The USPS CANNOT X-ray your package unless it is ticking or has becomed damaged and something falls out. It is against the law for them to search any domestic packages without probable cause. I can cite you a few Supreme Court cases that say this. The only way to raise suspicion is if the source gets busted and gives you up. Then They track the package. But that is unlikely since they want the big fish dealer, not the little user. But with Customs, you don't want to fuck with them. In my opinion it is a risk that is never justified. I always went domestic with no problems until they either turned scammer, or got busted, or they got too expensive and I had to find a cheaper foreign source. But that's a chance you take with foreign or domestic.
Spoon IP: Logged |
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2Thick Moderator (Total posts: 3094) |
posted July 02, 2000 05:48 PM
It is very simple. No matter how a domestic source receives his money, he can be caught. Western Union keeps records and a mailbox or drop box can easily be traced. If a fed wants to get you it will be child's play. Therefore his customers will be easily tracked down, too. A fed can order as easily as anyone. Then you are finished. And so are his customers. BTW- Flagging addresses is bullshit. How many postal employees does it take to read through 300,000,000 people's worth of packages? More than we will ever have working at one time. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com IP: Logged |
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spoonman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 343) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:08 PM
Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you say. But I still feel domestic is safer. We just differ on that point. Maybe they equal out in risks, who knwos. But I'd rather have a package sent from within the US than from without. BTW, flagging is not done by postal workers. It is situated threw a database that customs keeps. And they are flagged from either sender or receiver's end. A package from overseas has a cutoms bar code on it. They run it threw the computer and the database will pick it up instantly. If it waas flagged from sender, then receiver gets fucked too. But I think we'll just agree to disagree. Later bro IP: Logged |
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micke Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 356) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:20 PM
intresting,good to now.thanks 2thick IP: Logged |
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charlie Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 315) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:21 PM
Understood 2Thick. Thankyou. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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2Thick Moderator (Total posts: 3094) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:35 PM
I have no idea where this customs bar code is or how customs has the time to scan the tens of thousands of packages that come into the states every day. I have toured a customs facility and see that there is basically organized chaos. I see trained dogs sniffing packages, some sorting going on, random opening of packages, but no scanning of anything. Once again, I have never seen this customs bar-code (and I send and receive packages from overseas on a daily basis). ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com IP: Logged |
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thiassi Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 814) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:39 PM
Mail is read in with optical readers, If the writing is too bad then a person must input the infmation. It is very easy to match an address with a database of known addresses. I dated a girl in one summer when I was home rom college whoe job was to feed the optical scaners. The letters have to tuned sometimes. L8R I hate this touch screen it makes me look retarded wn it does not type the letters. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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charlie Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 315) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:47 PM
2THICK. I was told about the barcode watcher at customs by an Old Source. He never turned scammer or anything and he did have a good reputation whilst he was on here dealing. He gave it up and passed it all over to someone else!!! He tells me it is true about this, one of his customers used to work in the usps, and he informed him of the case. I cant say it's gospel as it's passed info, which is why i shared it! I would agree with you on the points raised. Impossible to track all, but could it be a possibility in some states perhaps? all the best. c.t IP: Logged |
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charlie Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 315) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:50 PM
Here is the sources very own words. "see the blue dots on the envelopes, the machines have scanned the post code and printed instruction to other sorting machines to read" IP: Logged |
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mossimo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 8) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:56 PM
If you order from a foreign source the worst thing that will happen is they seize your package? I thought they would come after you will fines and such. I figured that domestic was safer due to not going through customs but 2thick brings up a good point about domestic sources getting busted easier than a foreign one would and then they would probbably try to come after you. I was ready to start gathering my supplies for my first and now this makes me unsure which way to go not to mention from who? IP: Logged |
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jersey boy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 188) |
posted July 02, 2000 07:18 PM
I have gotten burned by so many overseas dealers because of their sloppiness and their trying to sell to the world, that they got busted. I have also had letters sent by Uncle Sam telling me he is now shooting my stash. My point is that I would take one good domestic source over three potential good sources overseas. There are just fewer safeguards that they incorporate in the U.S..
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WCP Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1205) |
posted July 02, 2000 07:45 PM
I have not had the most pleasant experiences with foreign sources. I will always go with a good domestic for many reasons. They are much faster on the turn around. If they are small, chances are thier mark up will not be much higher than a source from overseas. There is a good chance with a good domestic source you can find cheaper prices...this Ive found out personally. If packages are shipped quickly through the U.S. I dont know how they would even have time to really inspect anything, much like customs. I personally think that a good "small time" domestic is best. The service is second to none, the turn around time is good, and you can actually form a trusting bond with your supplier. Getting my gear within 7 days of the time I send my money out keeps me one happy lifter. Just my .02 IP: Logged |
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spoonman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 343) |
posted July 02, 2000 08:05 PM
2Thick raises some good points. They are well taken. BTW, that barcode thing was sloppily explained by me. It is more like the other post above said. The scanning or whatever. I was also told this second hand so don't take it for gold. But in response to one earlier post, it is not more risky when a domestic dealer gets caught because the feds want him to roll over towards the top - where he got it from - not the bottom user. It just doesn't work that way. I know because a bro of mine got busted selling pot and they wanted his supplier, not his users. This particular topic just strikes a cord with me because I always feel the best path is that of least resistance. Adding in customs is just another needless hassle. So I would pay the little higher price, as I often do, in order for that little bit more piece of mind that customs won't come a calling. spoon IP: Logged |
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kram696969 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 322) |
posted July 02, 2000 08:13 PM
i would rather go domestic. kram-mark IP: Logged |
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vdevil Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 838) |
posted July 02, 2000 08:22 PM
I have always gone domestic and loved it. My guys have solid operations with lots of safeguards in place. I have used foreign sources twice. One was sbc and the other was a friend from the board. Those orders went without a hitch as well. I can see where Jon is coming from though. My domestic guy could get popped then the feds could pose as him and bust all of his customers too. This just wouldn't happen with a foreign guy. My vote is still with domestic, as I have a solid guy with a good operation. IP: Logged |
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spoonman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 343) |
posted July 02, 2000 08:27 PM
One final remark. The comments about the risk of the domestic getting popped and then selling to you. Well there are certain limits placed on this. He (the fed acting as the busted seller) cannot start emailing all those on the sellers email list and ask them if theyy want to buy. That would be entrapment. Of course It would be ok for the feds if the buyer didn't know the seller was busted and the buyer initiated the email, asking for more supplies. Then it's not entrapment. Just another thought. spoon [This message has been edited by spoonman (edited July 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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BigPapaPump Moderator (Total posts: 373) |
posted July 02, 2000 09:56 PM
Give me domestic anytime. Customs and the DEA carry a much bigger sword than the local yocals. Packages are flagged primarily by the country or origin. I'd bet big money that anything coming from Thailand is automatically flagged. If your packages are snagged several times you will be logged into the big data base in the sky. It has not happened to me but I have heard of citizens travelly abroad being stoped due to their previous customs info. If you have an international source from a not so highly watched country, you're probably good to go. Domestic packages stand a much higher chance of getting thru. 2thick is correct in saying that they could very easily be set up and turned into a sting. I always pay very close attention to the demeanor of all of my 'friends', one little odd remark that doesn't fit and I cut off all comunication. It is also just as easy for customs to set up a bogus overseas operation. Western Union can be picked up anywhere. There is also no such thing as entrapement as outlined before. Agents do not have to identify themselves and they can solicit you to purchase. The best advice that I can give everyone is to stay smart, get some great undisputable references and keep your orders small. Stay away from the really hot shit like ghb and 'x' and you'll attract less attention. BPP IP: Logged |
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Eramthgin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 467) |
posted July 02, 2000 10:14 PM
Fine post 2thick. ------------------ If you enjoy it today you can always do it again tomorrow. IP: Logged |
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muscles2 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 220) |
posted July 02, 2000 10:28 PM
i understand 2thick's perspective. but as for me i have been dealing with several local sources and must say i have never had any problem and get my stuff within a week. as for dealing out of country to me there is no sense paying good money and letting customs have it. just my point of view. IP: Logged |
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jersey boy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 188) |
posted July 02, 2000 10:40 PM
One more time... Domestic is the Bestic. get big or get out IP: Logged |
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bgriff Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 512) |
posted July 02, 2000 11:24 PM
I go domestic and even pay a little more because i hate waiting 2-4 weeks to get my stuff and wondering if I got scammed!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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MiracleMan Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 146) |
posted July 02, 2000 11:33 PM
In all do repect, I disagree with you 100%. If you order gear overseas and your gear gets flagged by customs, its not over. Most likely you may be visited from you friendly local Narcotic officers. Thats what happened to me. I got arrested, booked, went to court 2 times, big lawyers fees to make sure there would not be any criminal record. It would be a big deal for them to seize your PC and your email. They would need a warrent for that. If your a supplier, you have more worries. I have ordered domestically since my experience with the law. NEVER ANY PROBLEMS. Plus you would be a Jack Ass if you ordered gear to your home with your correct name on it. Ship it with a fake name to you PO Box or home, its the same thing. You can just denie it. Its not my package, does not have my name on it. Think about it. Overseas is too risky. IP: Logged |
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ulter Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 38) |
posted July 02, 2000 11:43 PM
I picked up my stuff one day in San Diego at the PO and spent the next 8 hours explaining to the FBI that I didn't know where it came from. They let me go but I still get stopped every time I come back into the US as soon as they check their database AND IT HAPPENED 15 YEARS AGO. IP: Logged |
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giantset Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 212) |
posted July 03, 2000 01:41 AM
Hey 2Thick, I see your point but if customs has time to mail out a seizure notice then they have time to flag your address. On the other hand, even if your address is flagged, chances are that you will still get your package since they can't check every package. I haven't ever heard of the DEA tracking down the former customers of a busted domestic source, however I have heard too many cases where packages were seized by customs and there was a controlled delivery. I still feel that domestic is safer but I am interested in any other points you may have. Later, IP: Logged |
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thiassi Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 814) |
posted July 03, 2000 02:41 AM
Let me fix my earlier post. I was at 24hour fitness and they have internet on the exercise bikes, but you have to use a touch screen to type. I dated a girl one summer when I came home from college. She worked at the main mail processing center in Ft Worth Texas. When you drope mail in the box, post office, etc... it goes to the main office. There was one in Ft Worth and one in Dallas for most of north Texas. The mail goes down a sorter to try to get all the letters faceing the same direction. They then go into an optical scanner to look for the zip code. If it can't find the zip code, she had to rerun it or type it in by hand. It goes from there to the main office in the city where the zip code matches, from there it is feed into another optical scanner to try and read the street address. It would be at this point they could easly match it in a nation wide database. There does not have to be a bar code because it goes straight to your local carier and to your house from there. They also have a union where you almost can't get fired, some wild stories she told me about her work. L8R ------------------ IP: Logged |
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2Thick Moderator (Total posts: 3094) |
posted July 03, 2000 03:02 AM
thiassi, That is only for letters though. Parcels are harder to sort and read. The computer would have a very hard time trying to make sure that the packages are on the right side (which is a 1 in 8 chance compared to the 1 in 2 chance for a letter). Interesting, but not the same thing. BTW-I need to find a gym with internet access. That would be really cool. ------------------ http://2thick.elitefitness.com IP: Logged |
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scott825 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 459) |
posted July 03, 2000 03:40 AM
Would it be so hard to believe that some of these letters of seizure are from the scammers.How hard could it be to fabricate a letter that is exactly identical to customs. You see that way the scammer is covering his ass,so that hes not flagged as scammer right of the bat. IP: Logged |
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Vitaman Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 379) |
posted July 03, 2000 08:22 AM
2Thick I agree with you on this issue. I know there is a risk no matter which way I choose to buy but I personally feel better about using overseas sources. I feel it would be easier for the Feds to get more information for prosecution if everything was done domestically. By using overseas this adds in more distance, longer and harder "paper trail", and would involve other countries policing agencies for search warrents if they wanted to go after your source to help prosecute me. This is just my opinion. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Dexter Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 624) |
posted July 03, 2000 08:55 AM
This has been an interesting debate. I agree with 2Thick on this issue. If I lived in the U.S., and especially if I had a good job and a family, there is no way in hell I'd risk buying domestically. No way. Dexter ------------------ IP: Logged |
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qui Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 129) |
posted July 03, 2000 09:15 AM
I've had nothing but good experiences in buying from domestic sources who have setup a remailer. That means my package comes in 2-3 days via US Priority mail or UPS but my payment is sent overseas. The postage stamp varies all the time, states and cities are never the same. IP: Logged |
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Fish Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 506) |
posted July 03, 2000 09:24 AM
I don't look at it the exact same way. I found someone I trust and want to stick with him. Happens to be overseas. I don't think the customs problem is that big, due to clever shipping. If I had found a great domesitic first I would have stayed, but only found 3 okay ones. I was just much happier with my present source than with the previous domestic ones. And due to being overseas prices are good. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Krusher Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 304) |
posted July 03, 2000 09:25 AM
Does anyone here still get there stuff from the biggest guy at the gym? IP: Logged |
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slim jim Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 148) |
posted July 03, 2000 09:28 AM
I GUESS HOWEVER YOU GET IT, AND YOU ARE COMFORTABLE ABOUT IT. IP: Logged |
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the captain Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 6) |
posted July 03, 2000 10:06 AM
i agree with buying non domestic, the worst that can happen is losing a little $-compared to jail time or(with me) a loss of a career, i'd say trusting an out of country supplier isn't a bad deal. just because you're buying domestic doesn't mean that you'll get quality gear anyway-hell i've bought more bunk gear in the states. --pain is temporary pride is forever-- IP: Logged |
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FitnessChick Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 906) |
posted July 03, 2000 11:15 AM
wow alot of good points bought up here.... IP: Logged |
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The Ranger Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1299) |
posted July 03, 2000 11:26 AM
I've had good luck both ways.....but, I'd rather go with a small time domestic source anyday....hard to find, but well worth the effort!!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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charlie Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 315) |
posted July 03, 2000 02:43 PM
Well i gotta say i like the overseas orders and the domestics. hehehhehe IP: Logged |
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charlie Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 315) |
posted July 03, 2000 02:48 PM
JOKE !!!!!! IP: Logged |
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redE2GROW Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 57) |
posted July 03, 2000 06:38 PM
Domestic all the way! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Big Brother Val Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 591) |
posted July 03, 2000 06:41 PM
I've been scammed once by an overseas. Never with domestic. Sure, it may cost a tad more... but in my experience... it evens out when you count the cost of using Western Union for the overseas orders. Domestic, I can send cash... and that usually evens it out... at least... if not makes domestic cheaper. IP: Logged |
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flexed1 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 642) |
posted July 03, 2000 07:33 PM
when buying domestic used an assumed name and your address and when the package arrives sign your real name. ups or fed ex guys don't give a shit what your name is they just check the address. Now e mail tracking is a different story and can be used against you if things go bad so thats a great point. b ack to the assumed name just cirlce it and put return and keep it by the door incase they bust down your door. does this make sense? great topic and i think domestic in SMALL amounts is the way to go if you trust the source and method of operation. IP: Logged |
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flexed1 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 642) |
posted July 05, 2000 04:03 PM
worth a bump IP: Logged |
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quenepo Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 751) |
posted July 06, 2000 01:37 PM
I order from both,but I feel more comfortable when I order Domestic. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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